Is JB willing/able to assemble a winning roster anymore?

[MSOrange]

with the amount of college hoops JB watches, and the ridiculous extent of his Xs and Os acumen, and he's truly willing to have a top-third ACC team but just can't...

then he sure as hell shouldn't be coaching anymore

This is where I'm at.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Yes, Hughes and Q don't count because they're not here.

So I guess All Conference players are still not enough.

 

[pearl31]

This is where I'm at.

Something about his casual comments on the radio yesterday about next year's roster, after sleeping on it, seems to have done it for me.

He comes off as being handcuffed or at the mercy of some force he has no control over. Like, "well we just hope we can be good."

It's... just... I can't anymore

 

[Bayside44]

If you go back and revisit the initial post of mine you responded to, you will see that that was the last thing I mentioned. So, I agree with you, that there are much larger issues. The "furthermore" is just icing on the cake so to speak.

Fair enough the zone thing torques me. (it shouldn't).

 

[Dcuse]

Do you honestly think those 6 recruits, coupled with what we'll be losing, is a winning ACC roster?

Are you honestly making a losing assessment on a roster you have no clue about?

 

[realorange]

Do you honestly think those 6 recruits, coupled with what we'll be losing, is a winning ACC roster?

If you want to criticize come up with a feasible option.

 

[Cuse181]

If we pass on the portal then willing isn’t a stupid argument. It means he’s ok settling with what we already have.

Or maybe he doesn’t see anyone in the portal yet who he wants/will want to come here.

 

[Cuse181]

We basically let Dior Johnson go, because apparently he was FaceTiming coaches in the middle of the night. Oh boo hoo. So sad and annoying for them. Coaches need to learn to deal with these challenges in recruiting. Instead JB cuts bait. Oregon swooped in and found a way to put up with his shenanigans. Now we can go watch him dominate the PAC-12 next year and put Oregon back in the top 25.

There were many more issues than just “face timing” the coaches. Not the least of which was inability to stay in one place for longer then a couple months.

 

[MDCuse]

Willing and able are two completely different things. Willing yes, able is up to each persons opinion. But he’s certainly willing. Just look at the recruits we were going after this past spring. And JB was out there himself seeing them.

Able is not a matter of opinion. Able shows up in the results. Both recruiting wise and roster construction wise. I'm not sure how what we've seen this year and what's heading our way next year shows "able"

 

[djorange1989]

Something about his casual comments on the radio yesterday about next year's roster, after sleeping on it, seems to have done it for me.

He comes off as being handcuffed or at the mercy of some force he has no control over. Like, "well we just hope we can be good."

It's... just... I can't anymore

exactly, he doesn't have a general manager making moves and handcuffing him, HE is the general manager, if the team isn't talented enough that is on him

 

[Consigliere]

with the amount of college hoops JB watches, and the ridiculous extent of his Xs and Os acumen, and he's truly willing to have a top-third ACC team but just can't...

then he sure as hell shouldn't be coaching anymore

Could well be the case. IMHO, JB's system, particularly on defense, does not adapt well in the current state of college basketball with high roster churn. With very few exceptions it takes time for the zone to operate cohesively and plug and play with 3 or 4 new starters each year doesn't work out of the gate. It also explains our somewhat atyypical post season success over the years. May just be lip service but I believe his comments last night about building a more athletic roster and likely mixing defenses may be a concession to that.

Coupled with the negative recruiting and uncertainty that goes with having the oldest head coach in the history of NCAA D1 basketball and there are some enormous challenges to trying to return to an upper echelon program. He's certainly earned the right to try to overcome those challenges, but even an orange colored glasses staunch defender like me is getting ready to welcome a change.

 

[pearl31]

Are you honestly making a losing assessment on a roster you have no clue about?

The head coach has told us this is the roster he's rolling with, unless he has no clue?

 

[dasher]

Define grind it out as it applies to recruiting.

Just one example. Brey took his entire staff to see JJ work out. Only Red was there for us. That happens a lot. Jb, at this stage, doesn't put the same effort he did 20 years ago. I Know for a fact that Troy Weaver had to beg Jb to go see Melo. And that was 20 years ago.

An actual HS game? Not sure. I’d have to go back and read the recruiting threads and I’m not going to do that. I’d bet a name college coach like JB or K or Wright, etc attend very few if any actual HS games. That’s tough logistically. A coach doesn’t want to go someplace to see a player and be mauled by young kids and fans. That’s why for the most part you see them attending AAU games, tournaments, showcases etc. In many cases they are afforded areas where only coaches can sit. Then they can do what they’re there for and they chat up other coaches.

All I know is that during this past recruiting cycle our posters, maybe even you, were pumped up on the recruiting board. There was thoughts of a top 5 class and all these 4 and 5 star kids. People kept commenting on how hard JB was working and being out on the trail more than usual. We even had some pics of him at certain events with one or more assistants. The will was there. The able wasn’t. But while we didn’t get the 5 stars like we wanted, I still like this class and JB worked hard on these kids too. Very hard. And I think while they won’t all be stars, because it never works out that way, they each have themselves the POTENTIAL to be a star.

I go the hall of Fame classic in Spfd every year. Big time coaches are always there. Cal was there this year. They had played a game against Tenn the day before. I have seen Jay wright and Huggy as well. It is part of the job. It's the extra effort that gets the sale. I don't blame JB for not wanting to do that anymore. But it is the job.

 

[SUFan44]

2014–15	Jim Boeheim	18-13	9–9	8th
2015–16	Jim Boeheim	19–12	9–9	9th
2016–17	Jim Boeheim	18-13	10–8	T-7th
2017–18	Jim Boeheim	19-12	8–10	T-10th
2018–19	Jim Boeheim	19-12	10–8	6th
2019–20	Jim Boeheim	17–14	10–10	T-6th
2020–21	Jim Boeheim	15-8	9–7	8th
2021-22	Jim Boeheim	15-13	9-8	T-7th
Total		140-97	74-69

These are our regular season results over the past 8 seasons.

If this is acceptable to you as a fully invested SU fan, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

If it is not acceptable to you as a fully invested SU fan, then who is to blame for the deterioration of the results?

If the answer is not the head coach, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

If the answer is the head coach, then the answer to the question: "Is he willing or able to assemble a winning roster anymore?" is a simple one.

He isn't.

 

[pearl31]

If you want to criticize come up with a feasible option.

Feasible option?
Like constructing a roster to compete for the top-third of the ACC? Isn't that the job of the head coach? And if the head coach can't/won't, then it's time to move on to a different coach that can/will.
Feasible.

 

[Alsacs]

An actual HS game? Not sure. I’d have to go back and read the recruiting threads and I’m not going to do that. I’d bet a name college coach like JB or K or Wright, etc attend very few if any actual HS games. That’s tough logistically. A coach doesn’t want to go someplace to see a player and be mauled by young kids and fans. That’s why for the most part you see them attending AAU games, tournaments, showcases etc. In many cases they are afforded areas where only coaches can sit. Then they can do what they’re there for and they chat up other coaches.

All I know is that during this past recruiting cycle our posters, maybe even you, were pumped up on the recruiting board. There was thoughts of a top 5 class and all these 4 and 5 star kids. People kept commenting on how hard JB was working and being out on the trail more than usual. We even had some pics of him at certain events with one or more assistants. The will was there. The able wasn’t. But while we didn’t get the 5 stars like we wanted, I still like this class and JB worked hard on these kids too. Very hard. And I think while they won’t all be stars, because it never works out that way, they each have themselves the POTENTIAL to be a star.

Why when we were in Virginia to play Virginia Tech. Would the assistant coach go watch a HS when HCs from other major programs go and watch these games.

Mintz is going to notice if a HOFer is watching him play.
Red and JB should be there if we want this kid.
Instead just Red goes.

You don’t want to just say yeah JB should be leading more on this stuff.
We aren’t Duke.
We need the HOFer to actually use his star and feed these kids egos.

 

[dasher]

Feasible option?
Like constructing a roster to compete for the top-third of the ACC? Isn't that the job of the head coach? And if the head coach can't/won't, then it's time to move on to a different coach that can/will.
Feasible.

I would dare say that over 90% of us are not happy making this judgment. It has been forced upon us by the results. We want to be fun again. We want to be good again. We have had three great runs in the tournament that have masked what we have become. We need to be able to go out and get the guy. And right now, the guy isn't even considering us. We have good players. Better than most here think. We just don't have that guy that can get us a hoop when we need it. Of get us the rebound when we need it. Or the PT guard that is a real pt guard. It has been a long time since Ennis left.

 

[pearl31]

I would dare say that over 90% of us are not happy making this judgment. It has been forced upon us by the results. We want to be fun again. We want to be good again. We have had three great runs in the tournament that have masked what we have become. We need to be able to go out and get the guy. And right now, the guy isn't even considering us. We have good players. Better than most here think. We just don't have that guy that can get us a hoop when we need it. Of get us the rebound when we need it. Or the PT guard that is a real pt guard. It has been a long time since Ennis left.

Exactly.
I hate making this judgement and I, essentially, wouldn't let myself make it until today. I'm withholding full judgement of next year's roster until at least April/May, but indications are not good.

With the results of the past few years and the indications for next year's roster, it just becomes inescapable that our coach can't/won't construct the roster necessary to win at an acceptable Syracuse level.

 

[Briancuse]

I have to imagine he wants to can't think he likes going out like this don't think he's willing to put the time in recruiting.

 

[pearl31]

And, as crazy as it sounds, it actually is possible to both love JB and acknowledge the time has come - it's not some either/or proposition

 

[DilemaCuse]

Heres an article from the Big Lead. Jim Boeheim Just a Guy Coaching His Kids' Little League Team at This Point

I used to regularly read their blog years ago. They are saying the same thing that would get my posts removed on here.

I found this part interesting since JB will always reference Villanova plays 6 guys and 4 starters play 40 according to him.

"Throw in Cole Swider and Joseph Girard III and Syracuse has four players on the floor for more than 33 minutes a night. For comparison, the top five teams in the country (Gonzaga, Arizona, Auburn, Purdue and Kansas) have six players combined playing 30+ minutes a night."

So if bloggers can see it, rival coaches can and use it to negatively recruit against JB.

I always had faith in JB, until the last couple of seasons. Too many warning signs around Hop leaving and bringing in Buddy to play and start as a soph, recruiting fell off around 2016 and the results now show. If you go back to some old threads, alot of posters gloomy predictions were spot on.

 

[phil77]

We need the HOFer to actually use his star and feed these kids egos.

I think this is where JB is at right now. He has done it his way successfully for 30 years and doesn't see a reason to change the way he is or the way he does things. And I can't blame him because he is 77 years old and shouldn't have to change but the game both on the court and off the court has changed so much that JB refusing to adapt is killing the program.

He needs to be out on the grind feeding the ego of incoming kids and pumping them up in the media. Dior should be here next year no amount of late-night phone calls or extra baggage should have stopped it. He is a player that Syracuse needed more than the kid needed Syracuse so you have to put up with over-the-top crap so what that is the game now.

He needs to be always stoking the ego of our current kids to the media. Tear them apart behind closed doors and praise them to the media. Can't trash your own players who you recruited over and over again and then get shocked when they check out and leave. No pointing out flaws instead of building up positives.

He needs to play nice with the media. Can't be sour needs to be interactive with them and have good conversations with them instead of acting like a grumpy A** all the time.

He needs to change but he won't change. Until he leaves or changes the results are not going to change...

 

[rrlbees]

Just one example. Brey took his entire staff to see JJ work out. Only Red was there for us. That happens a lot. Jb, at this stage, doesn't put the same effort he did 20 years ago. I Know for a fact that Troy Weaver had to beg Jb to go see Melo. And that was 20 years ago.

I go the hall of Fame classic in Spfd every year. Big time coaches are always there. Cal was there this year. They had played a game against Tenn the day before. I have seen Jay wright and Huggy as well. It is part of the job. It's the extra effort that gets the sale. I don't blame JB for not wanting to do that anymore. But it is the job.

I wasn’t talking of past years just last year which I feel, and I wasn’t alone, that JB was willing to put in the effort. He was all over the place. People were excited on the recruiting board to see it.

 

[crv1728]

Indeed.

Additionally, we have been mediocre for nearly a decade now. As mentioned, we haven't played a conference game ranked come January since 2014. That's a frigging long arse time. These recruits are well aware of what we have been/are present day. It just isn't that attractive enough to lure these highly ranked recruits anymore.

Moreover, what kid today honestly wants to go play for a stubborn, set in his ways, crotchety 78 year old coach? I'm not just singling out JB relative to age, but it's not as if the 'old' type coaches are knocking it out of the park, etc. along the recruiting trail. Although, there's not any, not to mention many, of/near JB's grandfather type age. K/Duke is the the exception of course, but JB hasn't anywhere near the standing/stature, etc. of K. And, K is retiring after this season.

Perhaps, at first formally being contacted by SU, it piques a higher level recruit's interest, but in actual reality, that recruit is likely just being respectful, he's not seriously considering Syracuse. Furthermore, playing zone all zone and nothing but the zone so help us all is about as alluring as taking a trip to the Ukraine nowadays.

The mediocrity, the exclusively playing zone, the crotchety 78 year old coach, the short bench all make it too easy to negative recruit against SU. A fresh start, new coach is the only answer.

 

[blust2i3d4]

It is getting harder and harder and it is not JB's fault. Now it is one-and-done for college basketball supreme players. And zone defense really needs players to commit three or four years.