Is JB willing/able to assemble a winning roster anymore?

[tbonezone]

nobody on this squad is going to the NBA.

 

[djcon57]

as far as coaching someone up...this might be shocking if you know my POV, but you look at the guys that left last year and I have no doubt they would be better than they are now with their current teams If they stayed with us, but they simply didn’t get a fair shake at playing time or the “green light” or whatever so I get why they left. But JB would have made them a better player than who they went to

 

[RF2044]

as far as coaching someone up...this might be shocking if you know my POV, but you look at the guys that left last year and I have no doubt they would be better than they are now with their current teams.

System fit vs. coaching

 

[dasher]

And I think the evidence overwhelmingly shows that player development has been resoundingly poor over several years, corresponding to the programs dipping performance.

That's different from saying, the player has improved over the course of his tenure. Most players do, but there's a difference between good and good enough.

Dasher, you know that you're one of the posters I respect most on this forum. And I hold hoopsupstate in similar high esteem, given his background as a coach. So respectfully agreed to disagree on the player development factor, which I think is been a tremendous weakness for this coaching staff for many, many years.

I'm not saying you are wrong. Just that we don't know. You can only get so much orange out of an orange. maybe they are poor at it or maybe they are good at it and the players we got could only get us so far. That is my point.

 

[kcsu]

I'm not saying you are wrong. Just that we don't know. You can only get so much orange out of an orange. maybe they are poor at it or maybe they are good at it and the players we got could only get us so far. That is my point.

I have no idea about the staffs ability to coach kids up but my gut tells me they are good. The issue is playing time. Practice is extremely important but unless it is accompanied by actual playing time it will fall short.

 

[SUfanNC]

It is getting harder and harder and it is not JB's fault. Now it is one-and-done for college basketball supreme players. And zone defense really needs players to commit three or four years.

It getting harder and harder if you want to coast on the hard work you put in years ago. With all the changes you can’t coast and get the kids needed to win at the level Syracuse has in the past. JB is all I know as a coach for Syracuse and I am beyond grateful for that but you can’t tell me you don’t see regression.

 

[Gotothehole]

IMO, JB is willing but I don’t think he will “chase” recruits nor does he feel he needs to. He has shown that he does not want the hassle of a full roster or managing egos. He definitely thinks he can still win and will continue to do it his way until that is no longer true - in his mind at least.

Well at this point … we are not winning anything

Heres an article from the Big Lead. Jim Boeheim Just a Guy Coaching His Kids' Little League Team at This Point

I used to regularly read their blog years ago. They are saying the same thing that would get my posts removed on here.

I found this part interesting since JB will always reference Villanova plays 6 guys and 4 starters play 40 according to him.

"Throw in Cole Swider and Joseph Girard III and Syracuse has four players on the floor for more than 33 minutes a night. For comparison, the top five teams in the country (Gonzaga, Arizona, Auburn, Purdue and Kansas) have six players combined playing 30+ minutes a night."

So if bloggers can see it, rival coaches can and use it to negatively recruit against JB.

I always had faith in JB, until the last couple of seasons. Too many warning signs around Hop leaving and bringing in Buddy to play and start as a soph, recruiting fell off around 2016 and the results now show. If you go back to some old threads, alot of posters gloomy predictions were spot on

Heres an article from the Big Lead. Jim Boeheim Just a Guy Coaching His Kids' Little League Team at This Point

I used to regularly read their blog years ago. They are saying the same thing that would get my posts removed on here.

I found this part interesting since JB will always reference Villanova plays 6 guys and 4 starters play 40 according to him.

"Throw in Cole Swider and Joseph Girard III and Syracuse has four players on the floor for more than 33 minutes a night. For comparison, the top five teams in the country (Gonzaga, Arizona, Auburn, Purdue and Kansas) have six players combined playing 30+ minutes a night."

So if bloggers can see it, rival coaches can and use it to negatively recruit against JB.

I always had faith in JB, until the last couple of seasons. Too many warning signs around Hop leaving and bringing in Buddy to play and start as a soph, recruiting fell off around 2016 and the results now show. If you go back to some old threads, alot of posters gloomy predictions were spot on.

The entire nation knows this is a train wreck

 

[007]

There are several issues and talent is definitely one of them. Goal one should be to find a true PG. Can’t win consistently without one.

 

[orange7]

orange7 has had several posts lately downplaying his accomplishments. Pretty sure he is banned, but tbonezone was another one.

https://syracusefan.com/members/orange7.3772/#recent-content

Oh no I’m still here.

 

[MSOrange]

Oh no I’m still here.

I was referencing tbone with that comment although I see he is here also.

I know you’re still here. Try to post smarter.

 

[Sherman20]

Could well be the case. IMHO, JB's system, particularly on defense, does not adapt well in the current state of college basketball with high roster churn. With very few exceptions it takes time for the zone to operate cohesively and plug and play with 3 or 4 new starters each year doesn't work out of the gate. It also explains our somewhat atyypical post season success over the years. May just be lip service but I believe his comments last night about building a more athletic roster and likely mixing defenses may be a concession to that.

Coupled with the negative recruiting and uncertainty that goes with having the oldest head coach in the history of NCAA D1 basketball and there are some enormous challenges to trying to return to an upper echelon program. He's certainly earned the right to try to overcome those challenges, but even an orange colored glasses staunch defender like me is getting ready to welcome a change.

It’s so sad. We wouldn’t have to return to being an upper echelon program if he hadn’t allowed this slow bleed to happen. There were ways to stop the bleeding and turn things around, but his stubbornness got the better of him and he just couldn’t make the necessary changes.

 

[Sherman20]

I still don't understand why Swider is leaving. He will be the featured scorer, along with Girard, next year. Who doesn't want a better shooting 6-9 Ryan Blackwell in your starting lineup? I just don't get it.

Yea I don’t get it at all. We need Swider to return and we need a couple guys from the portal.

 

[Sherman20]

That’s nothing JB can control? He can’t pay the players an NIL deal, and I doubt anyone has called and had JB tell them “no they can’t get that NIL deal.”

Clueless

There are programs that are way out front of the NIL stuff, both in making it a central part of their pitch in recruiting players and in hiring staff members to help players navigate the space. We are not one of them. Our coach and AD are in a wait and see mode and just getting further passed by other programs. Other schools are way out front.

 

[pfister1]

I agree he tried to get those guys, but we missed and the guys we have need to enhance their offensive skills. This means we need to try and get Mintz and go for it in the portal.

Based on the coaches comments he seems like he's ok with who he has and that is not a winning decision on his part.

As a coach don’t his public comments have to demonstrate confidence in the guys he has? If he publicly says that our current players are not good enough isn’t that likely to undermine his relationship with those guys and leave us really f’d if those are the guys that end up making up the roster when the season starts. He has to manage the guys he has until he is guaranteed to have replacements for guys that might not be up to the ability level he’d like to have.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Yea I don’t get it at all. We need Swider to return and we need a couple guys from the portal.

He would rather take a shot at some pro league overseas earning $60k instead of starting or finishing a postgraduate degree. Seems like an easy decision unless Marcy’s sister wants to be his gf in the next few weeks.

Scratch that, my math was off, it would have to be Marcy’s daughter. How did we get so old?

 

[AZOrange]

What do you want him to do? Like honestly, what is JB not doing that other coaches are?

You can’t offer up some broad statement like “he would do what needs to be done” and offer no details of what that entails. All of the arguments we have as fans against boeheim are being used by other teams: old coach, declining performance, no succession plan, 2-3 zone, etc. all of those items have an impact. Also, Syracuse’s history means nothing to these kids, and if it did why should that discount every other schools’ history? This is such an unrealistic view of the current landscape it’s almost unfathomable. Next you’ll tell me kids should beating down the football teams door because they one of the most winningest programs in football history. Guess what man, most kids don’t grow up cuse fans, it just doesn’t happen. They don’t have blind loyalty like we do, they weigh ALL of their options, and only one school gets them in the end.

Oh come on…

 

[rrlbees]

There are programs that are way out front of the NIL stuff, both in making it a central part of their pitch in recruiting players and in hiring staff members to help players navigate the space. We are not one of them. Our coach and AD are in a wait and see mode and just getting further passed by other programs. Other schools are way out front.

Not correct at all. It’s been detailed before and not going through it again.

 

[cuseincincy]

PG - Torrence (minimal)
SG - Buddy, Joe
C - Jesse, Frank, now Sid
PF - JB3, Swider,
SF - Benny (minimal)

PG - Mintz, Torrence, Copeland (minimal)
SG - Joe, Taylor
C - Jesse, Frank
PF - Benny, Brown (minimal)
SF - Bunch, Taylor

Count me as interested in the 8 man rotation above.

Would love to have Swider back, not sure why he'd leave myself. But to the original question...of course he can and does. 3 of the freshman need to be players. Also, JB has to answer for the point guard position. (He won't) He tried to an extent. But at the end of the day Richmond, Goodine and Carey needed to be better than they were. To that extent we really need Mintz. My completely uninformed based on recruiting videos opinion is Mintz seems a more complete ball handling guard. With any semblance of a point guard next year Jesse becomes the focus of the offense. Too little size? Worse rosters are winning lots of games around the country. It would be a much more balanced athletic roster.

 

[Gotothehole]

Asked about improving the ACC, Syracuse coach Jim Boeheim says it is simple: "Get better players and win more games." Said he got that message from Mike Tranghese in the Big East.

 

[RF2044]

I have no idea about the staffs ability to coach kids up but my gut tells me they are good. The issue is playing time. Practice is extremely important but unless it is accompanied by actual playing time it will fall short.

Your gut's got an interesting theory, but the empirical evidence and data don't back up that conclusion.

If these guys excelled at teaching, the product we'd see manifest on the floor wouldn't be so subpar, over such an extended period of time. Even with a domineering leader holding the reins.

And that's only part of the problem. If these guys aren't great recruiters -- and we have multiple years of evidence indicating that neither Red nor GMac could hold Troy Weaver's jock -- and they aren't great teachers of the game, then why on earth would they be candidates to ascend to the head coaching position?

Answer -- they won't be. Tomcat nailed it yesterday with his summary about how Wildhack is going to approach things when the time comes. Thank god the AD plans to think big instead of settling for an inhouse candidate, and letting the downward spiral continue even for a few additional years.

 

[Cusefan0307]

PG - Torrence (minimal)
SG - Buddy, Joe
C - Jesse, Frank, now Sid
PF - JB3, Swider,
SF - Benny (minimal)

PG - Mintz, Torrence, Copeland (minimal)
SG - Joe, Taylor
C - Jesse, Frank
PF - Benny, Brown (minimal)
SF - Bunch, Taylor

Count me as interested in the 8 man rotation above.

Would love to have Swider back, not sure why he'd leave myself. But to the original question...of course he can and does. 3 of the freshman need to be players. Also, JB has to answer for the point guard position. (He won't) He tried to an extent. But at the end of the day Richmond, Goodine and Carey needed to be better than they were. To that extent we really need Mintz. My completely uninformed based on recruiting videos opinion is Mintz seems a more complete ball handling guard. With any semblance of a point guard next year Jesse becomes the focus of the offense. Too little size? Worse rosters are winning lots of games around the country. It would be a much more balanced athletic roster.

Not good enough at forward at all. We need to stop settling. If we do then expect 18-13.

 

[tptcuse]

PG - Torrence (minimal)
SG - Buddy, Joe
C - Jesse, Frank, now Sid
PF - JB3, Swider,
SF - Benny (minimal)

PG - Mintz, Torrence, Copeland (minimal)
SG - Joe, Taylor
C - Jesse, Frank
PF - Benny, Brown (minimal)
SF - Bunch, Taylor

Count me as interested in the 8 man rotation above.

Would love to have Swider back, not sure why he'd leave myself. But to the original question...of course he can and does. 3 of the freshman need to be players. Also, JB has to answer for the point guard position. (He won't) He tried to an extent. But at the end of the day Richmond, Goodine and Carey needed to be better than they were. To that extent we really need Mintz. My completely uninformed based on recruiting videos opinion is Mintz seems a more complete ball handling guard. With any semblance of a point guard next year Jesse becomes the focus of the offense. Too little size? Worse rosters are winning lots of games around the country. It would be a much more balanced athletic roster.

That roster would struggle to average 50 points a game.

 

[Noexcuse]

That roster would struggle to average 50 points a game.

Developmental roster that will provide a few surprises in year 1 but will be championship material by year 3. If they stay together that long.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Developmental roster that will provide a few surprise in year 1 but will be championship material by year 3. If they stay together that long.

They won’t stay together that long. It doesn’t happen anymore. We have been saying we are a year away since 15-16 and guys always leave. That’s why we MUST portal.

 

[tptcuse]

They won’t stay together that long. It doesn’t happen anymore. We have been saying we are a year away since 15-16 and guys always leave. That’s why we MUST portal.

Seems like a no-brainer to go all in on getting a forward.