Is JB willing/able to assemble a winning roster anymore?

[Cusefan0307]

Seems like a no-brainer to go all in on getting a forward. View attachment 214775

I’m frustrated some are intrigued by next years roster. Defense is nice, but the name of the game is to put a ball in a basket and Benny has shown zero ability to do that. We have fans penciling him in to starting lineups and still clutching pearls to his HS ranking.

 

[tptcuse]

I’m frustrated some are intrigued by next years roster. Defense is nice, but the name of the game is to put a ball in a basket and Benny has shown zero ability to do that. We have fans penciling him in to starting lineups and still clutching pearls to his HS ranking.

Like everyone, I am hoping he is still here and improves a ton. But to count on that seems silly.

 

[pearl31]

PG - Torrence (minimal)
SG - Buddy, Joe
C - Jesse, Frank, now Sid
PF - JB3, Swider,
SF - Benny (minimal)

PG - Mintz, Torrence, Copeland (minimal)
SG - Joe, Taylor
C - Jesse, Frank
PF - Benny, Brown (minimal)
SF - Bunch, Taylor

Count me as interested in the 8 man rotation above.

Would love to have Swider back, not sure why he'd leave myself. But to the original question...of course he can and does. 3 of the freshman need to be players. Also, JB has to answer for the point guard position. (He won't) He tried to an extent. But at the end of the day Richmond, Goodine and Carey needed to be better than they were. To that extent we really need Mintz. My completely uninformed based on recruiting videos opinion is Mintz seems a more complete ball handling guard. With any semblance of a point guard next year Jesse becomes the focus of the offense. Too little size? Worse rosters are winning lots of games around the country. It would be a much more balanced athletic roster.

Sure, I suppose I'd be interested in that rotation too. While also being wholly prepared for a season, results wise, as bad as or worse than this year. There's no reason or excuse for a program like Syracuse, in this day and age of the portal, to roll with an ACC roster that anemic, specifically at the forward position.

 

[pearl31]

But to the original question...of course he can and does.

He does? Since the 13-14 season, what's the highest spot in the ACC we've finished? What's been our best NCAAT seed?
Results.

 

[SWC75]

Based on what we've seen this year, and his words last night on the radio, I'm afraid the answer is No.

I'm not sure if it comes down to the "willing" or the "able" - probably a combo of the two - but it's become clear that he can't/won't assemble the type of roster required to be relevant (compete to be in top of ACC, a non-bubble seed in NCAAT).

Obviously I'll wait to see what the roster for next year is actually comprised of before fully judging - but if it's the incoming freshmen (plus Mintz perhaps) minus the Boeheim bros and Swider, as JB indicated last night, that's roster malpractice - just as this season was/is roster malpractice.

It's sad and tiresome.

Another fan who thinks he wants to win more than the coach does. it's our entertainment. It's his profession and his life.

 

[pearl31]

Another fan who thinks he wants to win more than the coach does. it's our entertainment. It's his profession and his life.

Dude.
Who is saying JB doesn't want to win? Not me. I'm on record around here as one of the biggest JB defenders around.

Not being willing to do what it takes, as well as no longer being able to do all the things it takes to win at an acceptable level, i.e. produce the results - is a completely different thing than simply wanting to win.

Don't twist my argument into something it's not.

 

[Noexcuse]

That roster would struggle to average 50 points a game.

Figure 35 points a game between Jesse and Joe. If you can get 12 to 15 total from the 2 forwards and around 10 from the other guard you’re up to 60. Maybe 10 more from the bench. And good defense all around it might not be that bad. If this season taught us anything it’s that pre season expectations are worthless. You have to let the season play out to see how good ( or bad) you really are. One thing about next year’s roster that’s intriguing is the flexibility and mix and match possibilities if everyone shows up.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Figure 35 points a game between Jesse and Joe. If you can get 12 to 15 total from the 2 forwards and around 10 from the other guard you’re up to 60. Maybe 10 more from the bench. And good defense all around it might not be that bad. If this season taught us anything it’s that pre season expectations are worthless. You have to let the season play out to see how good ( or bad) you really are. One thing about next year’s roster that’s intriguing is the flexibility and mix and match possibilities if everyone shows up.

OMG when’s the last time our bench scored 20 points a game. It’s going to be worse than the Battle/Howard team that could barely get shots off. People will be as mad at the offense as they are about the defense this year.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Another fan who thinks he wants to win more than the coach does. it's our entertainment. It's his profession and his life.

The fans and donors pay a significant percentage of his salary.

 

[Alsacs]

Another fan who thinks he wants to win more than the coach does. it's our entertainment. It's his profession and his life.

I respect you but you couldn’t be further from the point being made.

Tom Brady would continue playing football if all he had to do was play the games.
The amount of work he takes on his craft and time that takes away from his other priorities.
Thus he is retiring.

Our HC is competitve as hell when the games start. He is not doing close to the same amount of work he did years ago and if you can’t see thaf then whatever.

We are the most predictable team in the nation. HC needs to either adapt and upgrade several positions or enjoy his life and let the program become what it is capable. A lot because of him but to not get the point and just make this comment ignores the macro issues.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Dude.
Who is saying JB doesn't want to win? Not me. I'm on record around here as one of the biggest JB defenders around.

Not being willing to do what it takes, as well as no longer being able to do all the things it takes to win at an acceptable level, i.e. produce the results - is a completely different thing than simply wanting to win.

Don't twist my argument into something it's not.

I can vouch from memory that pearl31 is one of the biggest JB defenders around. To see him like this - Steve - that should be a wake up call that the end is nigh.

 

[TinyManInside]

Figure 35 points a game between Jesse and Joe. If you can get 12 to 15 total from the 2 forwards and around 10 from the other guard you’re up to 60. Maybe 10 more from the bench. And good defense all around it might not be that bad. If this season taught us anything it’s that pre season expectations are worthless. You have to let the season play out to see how good ( or bad) you really are. One thing about next year’s roster that’s intriguing is the flexibility and mix and match possibilities if everyone shows up.

This team has exactly matched my pre-season expectation. People thinking this roster was going to get a 6 seed in the NCAA tournament have ZERO talent evaluation skills.

Also, in a specific sense, we're not a top 25 type of program anymore, and haven't been for nearly a decade. Thinking we're just going to suddenly and miraculously escape the 18-13 wormhole without major changes in the program = no grasp on reality.

It's shocking to me the number of people who are just now realizing what the program is. We are already 3 to 4 years behind what the schedule should have been; the brand has been and is being damaged. I am hopeful we can attract the same type of candidates that we would have several years ago, but I'm not sure if we will. I don't even know if we'll go outside for the next candidate, and I assure you that if coach has anything to say about it, we won't.

I am a tremendous fan of what coach Boeheim has accomplished in his career and have been a huge supporter of his for 30+ years. But it is possible to acknowledge him as being an all time great coach while simultaneously acknowledging the current state of the program and the current state of his decreasing acumen/performance as a coach. Bottom line for me is that I want this program to be great after he leaves, but I have a feeling that it is going to be a steep hill to climb.

 

[Noexcuse]

OMG when’s the last time our bench scored 20 points a game. It’s going to be worse than the Battle/Howard team that could barely get shots off. People will be as mad at the offense as they are about the defense this year.

I think I said 10 from the bench. Anyway it will require the coach using his bench appropriately. You may be right but like I said you have to let it play out. My guess is the team we see at the beginning of next year will be nothing at all like the team we see at the end. This years team never really grew. I think next years team will. I don’t expect them to win the ACC but I think they will end up surprising if the pieces are used properly.

 

[richmondcuse03]

This team has exactly matched my pre-season expectation. People thinking this roster was going to get a 6 seed in the NCAA tournament have ZERO talent evaluation skills.

Also, in a specific sense, we're not a top 25 type of program anymore, and haven't been for nearly a decade. Thinking we're just going to suddenly and miraculously escape the 18-13 wormhole without major changes in the program = no grasp on reality.

It's shocking to me the number of people who are just now realizing what the program is. We are already 3 to 4 years behind what the schedule should have been; the brand has been and is being damaged. I am hopeful we can attract the same type of candidates that we would have several years ago, but I'm not sure if we will. I don't even know if we'll go outside for the next candidate, and I assure you that if coach has anything to say about it, we won't.

I am a tremendous fan of what coach Boeheim has accomplished in his career and have been a huge supporter of his for 30+ years. But it is possible to acknowledge him as being an all time great coach while simultaneously acknowledging the current state of the program and the current state of his decreasing acumen/performance as a coach. Bottom line for me is that I want this program to be great after he leaves, but I have a feeling that it is going to be a steep hill to climb.

Well said and agreed. But I’m optimistic about the future post JB if we make the right hire. It can’t be JB’s call though.

And on the positive side, it’s easy to turn around a basketball team vs a football one.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The only thought I have to add is that I think at some point for JB it became less about driving to try to win a championship and more about being satisfied to go on a little run in the tournament.

 

[Bayside44]

I respect you but you couldn’t be further from the point being made.

Tom Brady would continue playing football if all he had to do was play the games.
The amount of work he takes on his craft and time that takes away from his other priorities.
Thus he is retiring.

Our HC is competitve as hell when the games start. He is not doing close to the same amount of work he did years ago and if you can’t see thaf then whatever.

We are the most predictable team in the nation. HC needs to either adapt and upgrade several positions or enjoy his life and let the program become what it is capable. A lot because of him but to not get the point and just make this comment ignores the macro issues.

We've always been predictable. Back when Mason was running the recruiting site in the Bush era I remember his quote from other Big East coaches - easiest team to prepare for, hardest team to play. Part of the joy of JB is that he doesn't make this harder than it needs to be.

We aren't getting the players that we need on the court, that's the alpha and the omega of this all.

 

[MSOrange]

Dude.
Who is saying JB doesn't want to win? Not me. I'm on record around here as one of the biggest JB defenders around.

Not being willing to do what it takes, as well as no longer being able to do all the things it takes to win at an acceptable level, i.e. produce the results - is a completely different thing than simply wanting to win.

Don't twist my argument into something it's not.

Agree. That was not a fair characterization at all of your thoughts by SWC.

 

[pfister1]

I’m frustrated some are intrigued by next years roster. Defense is nice, but the name of the game is to put a ball in a basket and Benny has shown zero ability to do that. We have fans penciling him in to starting lineups and still clutching pearls to his HS ranking.

How many 5*s have we had historically that were total whiffs? I think he may be having difficulty transitioning, but he wouldn’t have had the ranking he did, not been pursued by JB, if he couldn’t put the ball in the hoop.

 

[OrangeDW]

I’m frustrated some are intrigued by next years roster. Defense is nice, but the name of the game is to put a ball in a basket and Benny has shown zero ability to do that. We have fans penciling him in to starting lineups and still clutching pearls to his HS ranking.

I’m trying to remember a season that we didn’t enter with at least one returning guaranteed “good” player at forward, and I can’t do it.

I don’t think one exists in my lifetime. We ALWAYS have forwards. There’s no way we can go into a season with Benny and some freshmen.

 

[OrangeDW]

How many 5*s have we had historically that were total whiffs? I think he may be having difficulty transitioning, but he wouldn’t have had the ranking he did, not been pursued by JB, if he couldn’t put the ball in the hoop.

I can’t remember if he was a 5, but the Jalen Carey whiff looms large for me. Carey, Moyer, Goodine - these were all well regarded recruits that really couldn’t play at all. Even going back to Kaleb Joseph.

 

[orangecuse]

This team has exactly matched my pre-season expectation. People thinking this roster was going to get a 6 seed in the NCAA tournament have ZERO talent evaluation skills.

Also, in a specific sense, we're not a top 25 type of program anymore, and haven't been for nearly a decade. Thinking we're just going to suddenly and miraculously escape the 18-13 wormhole without major changes in the program = no grasp on reality.

It's shocking to me the number of people who are just now realizing what the program is. We are already 3 to 4 years behind what the schedule should have been; the brand has been and is being damaged. I am hopeful we can attract the same type of candidates that we would have several years ago, but I'm not sure if we will. I don't even know if we'll go outside for the next candidate, and I assure you that if coach has anything to say about it, we won't.

I am a tremendous fan of what coach Boeheim has accomplished in his career and have been a huge supporter of his for 30+ years. But it is possible to acknowledge him as being an all time great coach while simultaneously acknowledging the current state of the program and the current state of his decreasing acumen/performance as a coach. Bottom line for me is that I want this program to be great after he leaves, but I have a feeling that it is going to be a steep hill to climb.

Excellent post!

As incredible as that 2016 run to the FF as a 10 seed was, it was almost a curse. There were folks then (although they'd typically get hammered by the usual suspects) that alluded to issues, etc. However, for many, that trumped everything.

Throw in a couple more unexpected S16's (even one where we were in the play-in game) and all's well because winning two consecutive games in the Dance trumps season after season of mediocrity, who cares if we ever have yet to even be able to win back to back games in our own conference tournament.

Those aforementioned surprising post season feats has been the perfect masquerade, albeit rather damning.

 

[OrangeDW]

Excellent post!

As incredible as that 2016 run to the FF as a 10 seed was, it was almost a curse. There were folks then (although they'd typically get hammered by the usual suspects) that alluded to issues, etc. However, for many, that trumped everything.

Throw in a couple more unexpected S16's (even one where we were in the play-in game) and all's well because winning two consecutive games in the Dance trumps season after season of mediocrity, who cares if we haven't yet even been able to win back to back games in our own conference tournament.

Those aforementioned surprising post season feats has been the perfect masquerade, albeit rather damning.

Yup. Major turning point for me was the 2018-19 flop of a season. We had everybody back and were ranked preseason. That was supposed to be our year to be “back”.

We weren’t even close. Since then it’s just been riding out the sons era. Time to move on after this season IMO. We’ve already wasted enough years headed nowhere.

 

[cuseincincy]

Yup. Major turning point for me was the 2018-19 flop of a season. We had everybody back and were ranked preseason. That was supposed to be our year to be “back”.

We weren’t even close. Since then it’s just been riding out the sons era. Time to move on after this season IMO. We’ve already wasted enough years headed nowhere.

Not to belabor my primary point, but that 2018-19 team was a complete team ready to be turned over to a prize recruit PG. Carey wasn't ready (not just JB speak). So they played the entire season without a PG, again.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Not to belabor my primary point, but that 2018-19 team was a complete team ready to be turned over to a prize recruit PG. Carey wasn't ready (not just JB speak). So they played the entire season without a PG, again.

Not just that. We had everyone back from a sweet 16 plus Hughes. Howard got hurt before the season and we ended up getting blown out in the OOC by Old Dominion, UConn, Oregon, and Buffalo.

I was fine giving JB a year with his kids, but it’s put up or shut up now. If he doesn’t/can’t put together a team that can compete for the top 25 next year please just retire.

 

[SWC75]

Dude.
Who is saying JB doesn't want to win? Not me. I'm on record around here as one of the biggest JB defenders around.

Not being willing to do what it takes, as well as no longer being able to do all the things it takes to win at an acceptable level, i.e. produce the results - is a completely different thing than simply wanting to win.

Don't twist my argument into something it's not.

Nonsense. Any coach who wants to win is willing to do those things. If he's no longer willing, he no longer cares. Watch him during games. He certainly cares. How did he get this class coming in if he is no longer "willing"?