Is JB willing/able to assemble a winning roster anymore?

[kcsu]

We lost a top 50 player who grew up 10 miles from the Carrier Dome to Notre Dame when his family wanted him to come here.

We have lost multiple kids from Rochester and multiple kids from Albany. We lost Symir originally. We are getting cooked in our own backyard.

Its more him vs his effort.

 

[dasher]

I wasn’t talking of past years just last year which I feel, and I wasn’t alone, that JB was willing to put in the effort. He was all over the place. People were excited on the recruiting board to see it.

I think he upped his wok level last year quite a bit. But not to the standards that he set and other coaches are currently doing. A jump from 50% effort to 75% effort is a big jump. But it's not the 100% that others are giving.

 

[chugg21]

Questioning Boeheim’s desire to win in foolish.

The desire is as irrelevant as our program. I'm sure at 77 I'll desire a lot of things that I'm no longer capable of or willing to put in the effort for.

 

[Briancuse]

I think he upped his wok level last year quite a bit. But not to the standards that he set and other coaches are currently doing. A jump from 50% effort to 75% effort is a big jump. But it's not the 100% that others are giving.

Thats still a huge problem.

 

[dasher]

They clearly aren't.

Nor are they good teachers of the game.

Which is why neither of them are qualified to take over as JB's successor.

I don't know if that is fair. They might target excellent players and not get the Head coach help they need to land those guys. And they might be good at coaching up guys but those guys just aren't capable of being what we need them to be to be a top 25 team. Or maybe not. But at this point, we don't know.

 

[dasher]

Thats still a huge problem.

That is why I wrote that.

 

[RF2044]

I don't know if that is fair. They might target excellent players and not get the Head coach help they need to land those guys. And they might be good at coaching up guys but those guys just aren't capable of being what we need them to be to be a top 25 team. Or maybe not. But at this point, we don't know.

It's been a multi-year trend with this staff -- it's not remotely unfair, we have all the empirical evidence we need.

Player development is either evident, or it's lacking. Players either get coached up, or they don't.

We have ample evidence.

 

[dasher]

It's been a multi-year trend with this staff, we know.

yes. With the same major problem.

 

[althea]

It's been a multi-year trend with this staff -- it's not remotely unfair, we have all the empirical evidence we need.

Player development is either evident, or it's lacking. Players either get coached up, or they don't.

We have ample evidence.

Has Jesse Edwards been "coached up"?

 

[chugg21]

Has Jesse Edwards been "coached up"?

Has Benny or JBA?

 

[kcsu]

I wasn’t talking of past years just last year which I feel, and I wasn’t alone, that JB was willing to put in the effort. He was all over the place. People were excited on the recruiting board to see it.

Lets not go overboard. He worked for the recruits but he didnt put in some herculean effort. He simply did his job and it paid off with a solid class.

 

[kcsu]

Schools nor coaches are the NIL bidders.

I know thats the rule but do you actually believe that?

 

[RF2044]

Has Jesse Edwards been "coached up"?

Not really. He could have been a contributor much earlier in his career, and actually was held back by the way he was utilized.

His coordination, athleticism, and instinctive feel for the game were things he had before he ever set foot on campus. I'm not saying he hasn't improved his skills as a function of the coaching, but the actualization of his innate potential has been more based on his natural progression of his developmental curve versus being coached up.

 

[Alsacs]

Not really. He could have been a contributor much earlier in his career, and actually was held back by the way he was utilized.

His coordination, athleticism, and instinctive feel for the game were things he had before he ever set foot on campus. I'm not saying he hasn't improved his skills as a function of the coaching, but the actualization of his innate potential has been more based on his natural progression of his developmental curve versus being coached up.

Jeese sat because JB didn’t want to sit one of Marek, Buddy, Alan or Quincy.

So just say Jesse isn’t ready and nobody can question anything.

Jeese needed minutes. He wasn’t going to get minutes or then other players have to sit.

 

[TinyManInside]

“We had to get better athletically and we did, but we lost too much shooting ability and it’s been really difficult to score. There’s too much responsibility on Joe every night and he can’t do it alone.”

Please get a stone tablet and chisel and write it for all the world to see. I think you have created prophecy here.

 

[tbonezone]

jesse has enuf JB post presser bus tracks to warrant county road designation.
the dude who "wasn't ready at this level" one month ago is the reason we're losing.
go figure. old man says stuff.

 

[Bayside44]

Has Jesse Edwards been "coached up"?

Buddy. For those of us old enough to remember Terrance Mullin, that was the fear. Kid is pretty good from multiple spots on the floor (forget the usage stuff for this point).

 

[SUbear]

Able is a legitimate debate. Willing is just stupid.

I just think Jim no longer has the energy it takes to be a successful head coach. I am not as old as him and I know I no longer have the energy to be really good at anything.

 

[bothsocksup]

Based on what we've seen this year, and his words last night on the radio, I'm afraid the answer is No.

I'm not sure if it comes down to the "willing" or the "able" - probably a combo of the two - but it's become clear that he can't/won't assemble the type of roster required to be relevant (compete to be in top of ACC, a non-bubble seed in NCAAT).

Obviously I'll wait to see what the roster for next year is actually comprised of before fully judging - but if it's the incoming freshmen (plus Mintz perhaps) minus the Boeheim bros and Swider, as JB indicated last night, that's roster malpractice - just as this season was/is roster malpractice.

It's sad and tiresome.

Is this the worst post of the year?

 

[hoopsupstate]

It's been a multi-year trend with this staff -- it's not remotely unfair, we have all the empirical evidence we need.

Player development is either evident, or it's lacking. Players either get coached up, or they don't.

We have ample evidence.

I think our assistants are very good teachers and our players do get better. I just question how they evaluate talent (Joseph, Goodine, Carey, Ajax). There’s also a problem with the perception of the program in NY state. Losing Bryant, Stewart, JJ, and others are a problem. The coaches in Ct. are pushing everyone to UCONN. I don’t see that here.

 

[ar inj]

To quote JB, from less than two weeks ago "If you are not winning enough, you need to go out and get better players." Bottom line, SU needs better players and JB has said that himself as recently as 2022. He recognizes the problem. He knows what needs to happen. I have no doubt he has the "desire" to make that happen, but he now needs to fix the reason(s) why it has not happened. Can he make that happen? The evidence suggests no, and it may be because of things he cannot fix. As a fan, I am going to do what he said we do, hold him accountable. He has some well-earned equity, he has been allowed to coach his kids, now it is time to get it done or ride off into the snow squall (it is Syracuse after all). Needs to make it happen next year. Needs to play some man-to-man next year, like he suggested yesterday; run some decent in bound plays, like SU use to; needs at least 2 players who can get to the rim; needs to find some guys to run with Symir.

 

[RF2044]

I think our assistants are very good teachers and our players do get better. I just question how they evaluate talent (Joseph, Goodine, Carey, Ajax). There’s also a problem with the perception of the program in NY state. Losing Bryant, Stewart, JJ, and others are a problem. The coaches in Ct. are pushing everyone to UCONN. I don’t see that here.

I don't. And I think the multi-year track record of poor player development speaks volumes and backs that opinion up.

On top of the recruiting issues you mention.

 

[hoopsupstate]

I think part of the problem with our shooting is the shot selection with regards to degree of difficulty. We don’t consistently take good shots. Too many step back threes. It’s great that you have the skill to get it off, but we don’t make enough. Their taking pro moves without pro ability.

 

[dasher]

I don't. And I think the multi-year track record of poor player development speaks volumes and backs that opinion up.

On top of the recruiting issues you mention.

I think most of our guys have improved. Joe is a better guard now than when he first stepped foot on campus. Jesse is a better center than when he first stepped foot on campus. Heck, Cole is a better player now than he was in sept. I don't believe, or at least I don't think there is evidence that the coaches are not coaching kids up. Those players start at a lower level than what they need to be at. we need to recruit a big star or two. if we did that, everything else would take of itself.

 

[RF2044]

I think most of our guys have improved. Joe is a better guard now than when he first stepped foot on campus. Jesse is a better center than when he first stepped foot on campus. Heck, Cole is a better player now than he was in sept. I don't believe, or at least I don't think there is evidence that the coaches are not coaching kids up. Those players start at a lower level than what they need to be at. we need to recruit a big star or two. if we did that, everything else would take of itself.

And I think the evidence overwhelmingly shows that player development has been resoundingly poor over several years, corresponding to the programs dipping performance.

That's different from saying, the player has improved over the course of his tenure. Most players do, but there's a difference between good and good enough.

Dasher, you know that you're one of the posters I respect most on this forum. And I hold hoopsupstate in similar high esteem, given his background as a coach. So respectfully agreed to disagree on the player development factor, which I think is been a tremendous weakness for this coaching staff for many, many years.