Is Syracuse Football A Lost Cause?

[MikeSU02]

We have been playing football for like 136 years (I think, if wiki is right). We have one national championship in football. Just one. Our best season since the 1959 title team I assume most people would say our 11-0-1 team. We weren't in a title game. We ended up 4th in AP and coaches. 4th.

If you are measuring us against the top of the SEC or the B1G, we'll never compete consistently. But here's the deal - we never really did anyway. Even during McNabb's years where we won three conference titles in some capacity, we were never competing for a title.

Whether Wildhack can blackmail us into the B1G in the future, or if we end up in the BIG 12 or if we end up somewhere else... we'll still be playing football. And I really think as long as the AD's office is smartly run with support from the administration and BoT, we should at least have a decent team.

And that's ok. The goal is really to be fighting for a conference title game at least once every 3-5 years and a real shot at a run at a legit final four in the CFP 1-2 times per decade. That, to me, is a fair expectation.

The CFP really opened things up for teams, especially if there is expansion. I think Fran showing he'll get rid of ERob is a huge step in showcasing he is growing as a coach. We'll never have the depth to absorb key players getting injured, especially a QB. But, to be clear, post-Angeli was in no way acceptable in the way we couldn't do anything.

So is it a lost cause? No, not at all. Do we need to make sure we see where we sit in the grand scheme of college football? For sure.

 

[KevMonstah]

BOTH programs could alleviate concerns by holding up their end of the bargain for why they
were brought into the ACC and start winning. No more of this .500 or worse crap. Then SU
will get the fans, the tv market, the recruits, and the $, would not be a developmental program
for the conferences we disdain, and would be the ones others would want at the table.

Seems easy to me.

(would insert the Staples Easy button here, but ... issues)

kev

 

[sufandu]

Basketball is still a top ten money maker (for now).
ACC is getting us the funds for the $20 million and the increased support staffs.
We 100% need football.

Sure, the sport itself is a decent money maker, but the conference TV money is so important.

 

[PAcuse]

Sure, the sport itself is a decent money maker, but the conference TV money is so important.

Yes 100%

 

[bnoro]

College sports are a lost cause. If they exist in 10 years I'd be shocked.

 

[djorange1989]

College sports are a lost cause. If they exist in 10 years I'd be shocked.

At some point they may need NFL cash to subsidize them, they are the NFL farm system. I don’t know how high the various TV networks/streaming services can go in terms of rights fees as time goes on

 

[bnoro]

At some point they may need NFL cash to subsidize them, they are the NFL farm system. I don’t know how high the various TV networks/streaming services can go in terms of rights fees as time goes on

It's eating itself. There's too much money in the game to not be signing contracts. Once they start signing contracts then the academics will "opt-out" and there will need to be some level of professionalism/farm teams/academy programs (like in Europe for soccer)

Not to mention the already "semi-pro" pay to play AAU leagues and youth sports. Something's gotta give but that's capitalism baby!

 

[CA Monk]

Before we get all hung up on Syracuse University football's relevance let's remember:
"SNL isn't funny anymore." and "The moon landings were faked."
Now, we may move onto other matters.

 

[MikeSU02]

Before we get all hung up on Syracuse University football's relevance let's remember:
"SNL isn't funny anymore." and "The moon landings were faked."
No, we may move onto other matters.

Ashley Padilla is an emerging superstar on SNL, how dare you.

 

[MikeSU02]

College sports are a lost cause. If they exist in 10 years I'd be shocked.

I agree with a lot of what you've written on this subject (and I think in general I usually agree with you), but I think that is such a broad statement. 10 years isn't that long and there is so much money involved/people involved that I would be shocked if they disbanded and we were in the academy model in full (or something akin to that) within a decade.

Again, I don't think your commentary on the end state is wrong, I just don't think we're looking at it occurring within a decade.

Fair argument though.

 

[orangefog]

Ashley Padilla is an emerging superstar on SNL, how dare you.

She's no Victoria Jackson.

 

[djorange1989]

She's no Victoria Jackson.

Or Christine Ebersol

 

[orange79]

Yep, we’re doomed.

Might as well drop to Patriot league and Big East for everything else.

There’s no hope. The light at the end of the tunnel is the train coming to run you over.

Fran is a fraud and Fire Autry, and Wildhack brings nothing to the table.

Finally. Some sensible talk around here.

 

[richmondcuse03]

At some point they may need NFL cash to subsidize them, they are the NFL farm system. I don’t know how high the various TV networks/streaming services can go in terms of rights fees as time goes on

We're reaching a tipping point on the rights fees -- YouTube/Alphanbet have amassed a lot of power but don't want to pay as much as the traditional guys. I dont think the super growth for the TV deals will exist for long. It's why the conferences should band together and maximize leverage.

 

[baggerbob]

We dance around this question a lot on this forum, so I figured it was time to pose it explicitly. Here is what we know:

1. Each school may set aside $20.5 million in revenue to split among all athletes, with any additional coming from NIL.
2. They claim that NIL payments will now be regulated more strictly to ensure that it is a legitimate NIL deal.
3. These wealthy boosters are very likely able to get around increased enforcement via actually putting these kids in ads.
4. Therefore, while the $20.5 million will help us significantly, it will not bring us to parity with peer schools.
5. We will spend most, though not all, of the $20.5 million on football.

Just doing some quick googling, it appears the top 25 football programs had NIL budgets starting at around $10 million, with the top 10 and especially top 5 being way above that. With athletic departments now being allowed to infuse cash directly, NIL has become a supplementary way to pay players rather than primary. One of the major questions people have is how that will impact donor investment into NIL. This is speculation, but my belief is that NIL donor activity will increase as a result, especially at the "rich" schools. That being said, we are probably looking at having a budget anywhere from half to 75% of our top level peers, depending on our corporate support.

It doesn't seem to me that we can compete in such an environment, as our best players will always get poached. Why wouldn't a Clemson or Florida State type of program just buy our best players every year? People may point to Indiana or Vanderbilt as examples of why we can still win, but these schools have far more resources than we do and have only been able to sustain this level of football for 1 or 2 seasons so far. This seems like a situation where we have been rendered structurally incapable of competing at the highest level of college football.

That being said, if you take the $20.5 million and apply it 100% to men's basketball, suddenly you probably have about $25 million annually in player payment budget. It has been publicly reported that the "$10 million club" is the gold standard currently for college basketball program NIL spending. 9 of the 10 programs in that $10 million club play high level football, and of those only Duke will spend a bulk of those funds on basketball. If the athletic department makes a conscious decision to pivot to a basketball centric focus, the basketball program actually could sustain one of the highest NIL budgets in the nation on an annual basis. At that point you would have a program with one of the largest fanbases, one of the largest NIL budgets, in relatively close proximity to hotbeds like NYC & Philadelphia, you can see how it brings basketball back to being a potential powerhouse.

That being said, it's not so cut and dry even if the AD wanted to make the pivot I am suggesting. The ACC will insist that we maintain high level football, so doing this would functionally mean we are telling the ACC to kick us out. It may lead to a few seasons of putting a shell of a football team out there to get slaughtered every fall. We would also be banking on the Big East taking us back when an eventual ACC split happens, which I think is a fairly safe bet.

To be clear, none of this speculation is something I enjoy stating. I have been a Syracuse football fan since I went to my first game at home against Rutgers when I was 11 years old back in 2003. I was a fan through Perry Patterson, Greg Paulus, Ryan Nassib, Terrell Hunt, AJ Long, Rex Culpepper, Zack Mahoney, Eric Dungey, you name it. But at this point I am looking at two floundering programs, and on the football side I just can't convince myself that we have any hope of competing at the highest level going forward. That being said, I would rather go all in on basketball with the prayer that we can get the program back to where it was when I was a kid than keep pretending we have a chance at competing in football.

Without a major football program the University would eventually go bankrupt.

 

[JoeCollege]

We should disband the program.

Sincerely,

Bud Poliquin

Windmills not yet tilted, my friend, and the corpulent woman has yet to croon in the square of our sleepy little one-horse burgh. This is nothing that can't be resurrected with the latest whiz-bang offense and peachy keen men of fury playing a defense reminiscent of leather helmets, flattened noses and ruddy faced young lads with names like Bednarik, Nagurski and Rosie Grier. With some whiz-bang kids from some small corner of upstate New York here, and some hard-scrabble kids from the coalfields of Pennsylvania there, the once pink and green of the Salt City shall rise on the plains of Mount Olympus to patrol the cold tundra of Central New York. Long winter hours toiling in the weight room will amplify the bang of these whizzers and the Orange shall rise again, to the chagrin of those Ninny Lions and Boston Beagles.

At least I think that's what Bud might have written.

 

[PeteCalvin]

That’s a whiz bang idea

Not exactly, it actually smells like some bad fish.

 

[Ottoman]

We aren't doomed - just handicapped compared to the heavily monied teams. Also, SU basketball has many more of the essential ingredients for big-time success, IMHO. We've had our hands tied behind our backs for over a decade, but once that changes, we will start winning again.

 

[721Comstock]

That’s a whiz bang idea

Huzzah!

Just what we need in this old burg.

 

[sdhall01]

Jesus Christ, with the doom posting on this forum. We won 10 games in 2024. We beat Clemson at Clemson this year before an unfortunate non-contact injury to the nation's leading passer. Why is everybody posting like it's 2008?

 

[Ottoman]

SU still has football because it makes money, and our leadership is afraid of what happens to us in realignment if we don't have a football team. I'm pretty sure they know we will continue to be a mediocre team most years based on the resources we have available.

I love Cuse football and have been a fan since the GROB era. That said, I think our money is better spent on basketball - and our natural conference is the Big East. And please, for the love of God, start playing in Madison Square Garden again.

 

[Ringostar57]

Do we have any billionaire boosters?

 

[orangefog]

Do we have any billionaire boosters?

Well...

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Short answer, no.

Longer answer, no, we're not a lost cause.

 

[dwilmont44]

I wouldn't say we're a lost cause.

We can still be competitive for the next few years.

But we will be left behind for the B1G SEC Super 2 League.

Enjoy it while it lasts.