Is Syracuse Football A Lost Cause? | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Is Syracuse Football A Lost Cause?

I think in the new era of the portal and nil, Syracuse football is at even more of a disadvantage then it used to be mostly because we just don't have the same amount of money as public schools. If you look at all the top football programs very few are private institutions. Most of the elite programs are public universities. Notre Dame the obvious exception

Playing inside should give us a recruiting advantage but doesn't really seem to pan out that much
 
I agree with a lot of what you've written on this subject (and I think in general I usually agree with you), but I think that is such a broad statement. 10 years isn't that long and there is so much money involved/people involved that I would be shocked if they disbanded and we were in the academy model in full (or something akin to that) within a decade.

Again, I don't think your commentary on the end state is wrong, I just don't think we're looking at it occurring within a decade.

Fair argument though.
I should say it won't exist in it's current form within the next 10 years.

I just don't know how you fix what this is becoming.
 
The more important question for me is whether this is fun. It's sports. It's supposed to be fun. The more the discussion slants toward all the business crap and less about what happens on the field, the less fun it is for me. I know a lot of people like to play armchair gm, but I'm just not interested in all of that. It makes me care less and less.
 
I wonder if the post title should read:

Is College Football A Lost Cause?​

Seems like it's more like AAA baseball or soccer. The next thing you know, the Raiders will have another bad season and become relegated to the college level.
 
I should say it won't exist in it's current form within the next 10 years.

I just don't know how you fix what this is becoming.
It has to become professional league(s) at this point.
Toothpaste is way out of the tube at this point.
NCAA is a joke, commish needs to be hired.
Let the players from a union and get a colelctive bargaining agreement.
Enforceable contracts etc.
Tons of money already being thrown around, I'm sure it would be fine if it where to move to that model .
 
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I wonder if the post title should read:

Is College Football A Lost Cause?​

Seems like it's more like AAA baseball or soccer. The next thing you know, the Raiders will have another bad season and become relegated to the college level.
haha
Raiders to the Big Ten and Indiana to the AFC West in 2026. 🤣
 
Jesus Christ, with the doom posting on this forum. We won 10 games in 2024. We beat Clemson at Clemson this year before an unfortunate non-contact injury to the nation's leading passer. Why is everybody posting like it's 2008?
Did you watch those last 8 games? All it takes is one bad loss for a coach to lose a percentage of the fan base. Duke was a stinker in all facets of the game, Pitt featured a major head coach error that tilted the game, and we essentially tried to lose UNC/ND/BC. Miami, Georgia Tech, and SMU were the only games where it seemed like we had some oomph out of the gate... three road games. I always felt like GRob was incompetent... not that he was trying to lose. I have never seen a coach burn through goodwill faster without a scandal. Can he get it back? Sure. But we are back to needing proof...
 
The more important question for me is whether this is fun. It's sports. It's supposed to be fun. The more the discussion slants toward all the business crap and less about what happens on the field, the less fun it is for me. I know a lot of people like to play armchair gm, but I'm just not interested in all of that. It makes me care less and less.

It is not fun in the current form.

Which is why I would kinda prefer the Super League to happen and we can go back to playing collegiate sports. Having every conference game within driving distance and round robin BBall.

The rat race is a turn off. Especially when we have no chance in the system. Chasing every last dollar (even pro sports are less fun now because of this) will drive me completely away. I can go watch Army or a nearby FCS and actually see college football (saving a lot of time, money, stress). The traditions and pageantry are being phased out for commercialization. What makes college football unique should be embraced and not minimized.
 
Ability to win 10 games in a season one every ten years is not going to mean squat. There is going to be a financial commitment that SU and tons of others aren't going to be able to (or want to) meet. At that point we align with some suitable schools and keep going. Do fans follow, schools stay committed, etc...we shall see
 
Ability to win 10 games in a season one every ten years is not going to mean squat. There is going to be a financial commitment that SU and tons of others aren't going to be able to (or want to) meet. At that point we align with some suitable schools and keep going. Do fans follow, schools stay committed, etc...we shall see
Without the fans there is no money and no donors
 
It is not fun in the current form.

Which is why I would kinda prefer the Super League to happen and we can go back to playing collegiate sports. Having every conference game within driving distance and round robin BBall.

The rat race is a turn off. Especially when we have no chance in the system. Chasing every last dollar (even pro sports are less fun now because of this) will drive me completely away. I can go watch Army or a nearby FCS and actually see college football (saving a lot of time, money, stress). The traditions and pageantry are being phased out for commercialization. What makes college football unique should be embraced and not minimized.
Regardless of what happens, the players need to be paid. The concept of amateurization goes out the window when there are ticket sales, televised games, and sponsorships in play.

There is no possibility of collegiate sports "being enjoyed" because that requires the "student-athletes" to be taken advantage of.
 
Regardless of what happens, the players need to be paid. The concept of amateurization goes out the window when there are ticket sales, televised games, and sponsorships in play.

There is no possibility of collegiate sports "being enjoyed" because that requires the "student-athletes" to be taken advantage of.

They aren't being taken advantage by lower level FBS and certainly not at the FCS level.
 
They aren't being taken advantage by lower level FBS and certainly not at the FCS level.
Yes they are. The FCS TV deal is $115m per year. How much of that do the players see? $0.
 
Yes they are. The FCS TV deal is $115m per year. How much of that do the players see? $0.
$115M divided by how many teams? Divided by how many players?

No, wait... FCS team revenue - FCS team expenses = $X. Assuming this is even a positive number, what would it be?

I have paid money to play sports most of my adult life. Golf course fees, softball refs, league sponsorships/entry fees... even bowling shoes! If FCS is a bad deal, don't do it. But playing for free is a step up for most of us...
 
Yes they are. The FCS TV deal is $115m per year. How much of that do the players see? $0.

Good.

We are going down a different rabbit hole here. The smaller conferences are offering roughly $10k a year per player in rev share IF they opt in (which isn't required). It isn't like these schools are swimming in FB money.
 
Did you watch those last 8 games? All it takes is one bad loss for a coach to lose a percentage of the fan base. Duke was a stinker in all facets of the game, Pitt featured a major head coach error that tilted the game, and we essentially tried to lose UNC/ND/BC. Miami, Georgia Tech, and SMU were the only games where it seemed like we had some oomph out of the gate... three road games. I always felt like GRob was incompetent... not that he was trying to lose. I have never seen a coach burn through goodwill faster without a scandal. Can he get it back? Sure. But we are back to needing proof...
That is asinine and honestly, it reads like you want to be mad at the coach. Look, no judgment. Lots of people prefer to review sports with a healthy dose of rage. I'm not innocent of that.

I'm not here to kink shame anyone. You, conceivably, pay your taxes, so feel free to say that a coach with a 10 win season a year ago "burned through his goodwill" after losing the nation's leading passer. I'm going to chose to disregard those opinions.
 
I wouldn't say we're a lost cause.

We can still be competitive for the next few years.

But we will be left behind for the B1G SEC Super 2 League.

Enjoy it while it lasts.
Honestly, I'm kinda looking forward to it. Let those conferences start their own NFL competitor. Let everyone else get back to playing college football.
 
Jesus Christ, with the doom posting on this forum. We won 10 games in 2024. We beat Clemson at Clemson this year before an unfortunate non-contact injury to the nation's leading passer. Why is everybody posting like it's 2008?

sarcastic willy wonka GIF
 
Windmills not yet tilted, my friend, and the corpulent woman has yet to croon in the square of our sleepy little one-horse burgh. This is nothing that can't be resurrected with the latest whiz-bang offense and peachy keen men of fury playing a defense reminiscent of leather helmets, flattened noses and ruddy faced young lads with names like Bednarik, Nagurski and Rosie Grier. With some whiz-bang kids from some small corner of upstate New York here, and some hard-scrabble kids from the coalfields of Pennsylvania there, the once pink and green of the Salt City shall rise on the plains of Mount Olympus to patrol the cold tundra of Central New York. Long winter hours toiling in the weight room will amplify the bang of these whizzers and the Orange shall rise again, to the chagrin of those Ninny Lions and Boston Beagles.

At least I think that's what Bud might have written.
I stopped at "corpulent woman has yet to croon" and gave you a like.
 
We dance around this question a lot on this forum, so I figured it was time to pose it explicitly. Here is what we know:

1. Each school may set aside $20.5 million in revenue to split among all athletes, with any additional coming from NIL.
2. They claim that NIL payments will now be regulated more strictly to ensure that it is a legitimate NIL deal.
3. These wealthy boosters are very likely able to get around increased enforcement via actually putting these kids in ads.
4. Therefore, while the $20.5 million will help us significantly, it will not bring us to parity with peer schools.
5. We will spend most, though not all, of the $20.5 million on football.

Just doing some quick googling, it appears the top 25 football programs had NIL budgets starting at around $10 million, with the top 10 and especially top 5 being way above that. With athletic departments now being allowed to infuse cash directly, NIL has become a supplementary way to pay players rather than primary. One of the major questions people have is how that will impact donor investment into NIL. This is speculation, but my belief is that NIL donor activity will increase as a result, especially at the "rich" schools. That being said, we are probably looking at having a budget anywhere from half to 75% of our top level peers, depending on our corporate support.

It doesn't seem to me that we can compete in such an environment, as our best players will always get poached. Why wouldn't a Clemson or Florida State type of program just buy our best players every year? People may point to Indiana or Vanderbilt as examples of why we can still win, but these schools have far more resources than we do and have only been able to sustain this level of football for 1 or 2 seasons so far. This seems like a situation where we have been rendered structurally incapable of competing at the highest level of college football.

That being said, if you take the $20.5 million and apply it 100% to men's basketball, suddenly you probably have about $25 million annually in player payment budget. It has been publicly reported that the "$10 million club" is the gold standard currently for college basketball program NIL spending. 9 of the 10 programs in that $10 million club play high level football, and of those only Duke will spend a bulk of those funds on basketball. If the athletic department makes a conscious decision to pivot to a basketball centric focus, the basketball program actually could sustain one of the highest NIL budgets in the nation on an annual basis. At that point you would have a program with one of the largest fanbases, one of the largest NIL budgets, in relatively close proximity to hotbeds like NYC & Philadelphia, you can see how it brings basketball back to being a potential powerhouse.

That being said, it's not so cut and dry even if the AD wanted to make the pivot I am suggesting. The ACC will insist that we maintain high level football, so doing this would functionally mean we are telling the ACC to kick us out. It may lead to a few seasons of putting a shell of a football team out there to get slaughtered every fall. We would also be banking on the Big East taking us back when an eventual ACC split happens, which I think is a fairly safe bet.

To be clear, none of this speculation is something I enjoy stating. I have been a Syracuse football fan since I went to my first game at home against Rutgers when I was 11 years old back in 2003. I was a fan through Perry Patterson, Greg Paulus, Ryan Nassib, Terrell Hunt, AJ Long, Rex Culpepper, Zack Mahoney, Eric Dungey, you name it. But at this point I am looking at two floundering programs, and on the football side I just can't convince myself that we have any hope of competing at the highest level going forward. That being said, I would rather go all in on basketball with the prayer that we can get the program back to where it was when I was a kid than keep pretending we have a chance at competing in football.
Season 3 Nbc GIF by The Office
 
The problem with the NIL funding is people getting burned. Portnoy gave a couple hundred grand specifically for one kid and the kid got injured never played a down and announced he’s transferring. Quinn Ewars made millions at Ohio state and people were furious he left for Texas and they didn’t get their money out of the investment. You have to know this is a possibility going into it, but I think it makes certain companies hesitant
 
A lot of rich people came out of Syracuse. A lot of them have big corporate money they could potentially put towards our NIL sponsorships. I am sure they are being worked over for NIL funding. I would not say we won't be able to raise enough funds to compete on a big stage. Our donors might be fewer, but possibly even mightier.
We are fine when it comes to NIL
 
We have been playing football for like 136 years (I think, if wiki is right). We have one national championship in football. Just one. Our best season since the 1959 title team I assume most people would say our 11-0-1 team. We weren't in a title game. We ended up 4th in AP and coaches. 4th.

If you are measuring us against the top of the SEC or the B1G, we'll never compete consistently. But here's the deal - we never really did anyway. Even during McNabb's years where we won three conference titles in some capacity, we were never competing for a title.

Whether Wildhack can blackmail us into the B1G in the future, or if we end up in the BIG 12 or if we end up somewhere else... we'll still be playing football. And I really think as long as the AD's office is smartly run with support from the administration and BoT, we should at least have a decent team.

And that's ok. The goal is really to be fighting for a conference title game at least once every 3-5 years and a real shot at a run at a legit final four in the CFP 1-2 times per decade. That, to me, is a fair expectation.

The CFP really opened things up for teams, especially if there is expansion. I think Fran showing he'll get rid of ERob is a huge step in showcasing he is growing as a coach. We'll never have the depth to absorb key players getting injured, especially a QB. But, to be clear, post-Angeli was in no way acceptable in the way we couldn't do anything.

So is it a lost cause? No, not at all. Do we need to make sure we see where we sit in the grand scheme of college football? For sure.
 

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