Is there an average team, anywhere in this country

[sufan59]

Check out his recruiting thread. You'll see who expected what.

Your pessimism about this team in the off season has been warranted so far and that really sucks for everyone including yourself

 

[two3zone]

Your pessimism about this team in the off season has been warranted so far and that really sucks for everyone including yourself

It does suck...

Far from pessimism though, just an honest assessment.

 

[KaiserUEO]

It wasn't the board I was referring to. It is the coaching staff that said that.

It certainly didn’t come from GMac, Blackwell and AO….

 

[dasher]

It certainly didn’t come from GMac, Blackwell and AO….

Blackwell and AO have never been on the Syracuse coaching staff

 

[UpstateSM]

Looks like a different dude

 

[SUFan44]

that we could give a good game to? Not win. That is off the table. Just give them a good game.
Scare them. What bothers me most is the evaluation of Carlos. To compare him with Tyler
Ennis, as some in the program were doing. ????????????????

I thought you were bullish on this team and creating the 'this team will be much better' narrative...? Maybe I am thinking of someone else.

 

[wiCuse]

I'm not sure all the criticism towards Carlos is justified (some is). How can anyone say he forgot how to play defense or that he can't play at this level. Our coaching staff has demonstrated that they cannot coach basic defensive concepts like help side or ball screens. We never bump cutters. Teams get whatever they want against us. I'm not convinced there's any type of scouting report to help Carlos or anyone else. Our defense is straight out of a Ymca pick up game, figure out who you're guarding, no principles or concepts. With just a little bit of game planning we could make average look good.

 

[Sherman20]

I'm not sure all the criticism towards Carlos is justified (some is). How can anyone say he forgot how to play defense or that he can't play at this level. Our coaching staff has demonstrated that they cannot coach basic defensive concepts like help side or ball screens. We never bump cutters. Teams get whatever they want against us. I'm not convinced there's any type of scouting report to help Carlos or anyone else. Our defense is straight out of a Ymca pick up game, figure out who you're guarding, no principles or concepts. With just a little bit of game planning we could make average look good.

It certainly looks that way. But I just can’t believe that’s the case. I would guess the staff is teaching the players their defensive concepts and but none of it is sinking in, and there’s no execution. Whatever is happening, their methods are clearly not working and they need to go back to the drawing board.

 

[two3zone]

Given that we have only played Lemoyne and Colgate, how was Carlos all-D in the CAA last year.

It was the CAA.

 

[two3zone]

Carlos was a 2 time 1st team all CAA defender. The CAA isn’t the ACC, but it’s better than LeMoyne and Colgate

Because it's human voting.

 

[dasher]

I thought you were bullish on this team and creating the 'this team will be much better' narrative...? Maybe I am thinking of someone else.

I was. I hadn't seen them play. I was relaying what I was told by people who had seen them. They may end up being correct. I am just saying that what I have seen from the first two games, we are not good. That doesn't mean that they are a finished product. Teams get better, stay the same or get worse as a season goes on. This team must get a lot better as the season goes on.

 

[jncuse]

It was the CAA.

But the CAA's competition level (as a conference) is still stronger than the Patriot League or the NEAC - he faced as a bit better talent than Colgate and Lemoyne in the CAA.

 

[two3zone]

But the CAA's competition level (as a conference) is still stronger than the Patriot League or the NEAC. So how could he have done well against the CAA teams while struggling against low mid teams this year.

Rafael Palmero won a gold glove playing 15 games. Human voting is subjective, these awards are hardly ever accurate.

 

[SUFan44]

I was. I hadn't seen them play. I was relaying what I was told by people who had seen them. They may end up being correct. I am just saying that what I have seen from the first two games, we are not good. That doesn't mean that they are a finished product. Teams get better, stay the same or get worse as a season goes on. This team must get a lot better as the season goes on.

This is why the whole program needs a refresh. If people that were seeing them play thought they were better, it means one of two things:

1) The people who saw them play don’t know a thing about basketball. Then, assuming said people are close to/inside the program, it’s the same old same old that we kept hearing over and over during the final years of Boeheim.

2) The players are better than last year but the coaching stinks. And that is another direct indictment on the coaching staff.

I actually think both could be true. Also, the point guard thing was an issue a MILE away. “Coaches love him” is a bigger issue than people want to see/say.

 

[jncuse]

Because it's human voting.

I thought it might be because he had huge steal stats, which sometimes don't always value a player appropriately and are appealing to voters. But it wasn't that.

My guess is that Hofstra's defensive system is fairly different than ours, and it played to some elements of Carlos' awareness / hid some of his weakness, that the system does not here.

That being said I'm not for widely changing things around to make it work OK for Carlos.

 

[SUFan44]

Rafael Palmero won a gold glove playing 15 games. Human voting is subjective, these awards are hardly ever accurate.

I don’t think he did nearly as well as people gave him credit for. Also, I think the system you play in and the coaching you get makes a difference.

 

[jncuse]

Rafael Palmero won a gold glove playing 15 games. Human voting is subjective, these awards are hardly ever accurate.

 

[dasher]

This is why the whole program needs a refresh. If people that were seeing them play thought they were better, it means one of two things:

1) The people who saw them play don’t know a thing about basketball. Then, assuming said people are close to/inside the program, it’s the same old same old that we kept hearing over and over during the final years of Boeheim.

2) The players are better than last year but the coaching stinks. And that is another direct indictment on the coaching staff.

I actually think both could be true. Also, the point guard thing was an issue a MILE away. “Coaches love him” is a bigger issue than people want to see/say:

Maybe. Maybe not. We have to let this play out a lot more. Very rarely do rash judgments turn out correct. We have looked awful in the first two games. There can be no positive spin on that. But I thought Red did a really good job with that team of misfits last year. Some of the best coaches have got off to horrible starts. I agree there has been plenty to dislike and to question at this point. We could very easily be 0-2. Against LeMoyne and Colgate. At home.

 

[dasher]

I don’t think he did nearly as well as people gave him credit for. Also, I think the system you play in and the coaching you get makes a difference.

You watched a lot of his games last year?

 

[dasher]

He’s certainly no Ennis, but do we have a better option at the point? Starling has more turnovers than assists in his career, Moore has never been a primary handler, and Cuffe doesn’t look like the answer at point. You have a solution, Dash?

Right now, I would 1. play zone. 2 play JJ at the pt ugh and split the 2 with Taylor and Moore. But, I am not at practice and given the opportunity to watch these guys every day. Maybe Carlos is just off to a rough start for some reason that I don't know or can't see and will turn it around.

 

[jncuse]

Rafael Palmero won a gold glove playing 15 games. Human voting is subjective, these awards are hardly ever accurate.

Rafael Palmeiro won that flawed gold glove because he had been a great defensive first baseman (in prior years and had earned a reputation. Him getting it that year was dumb (as he didn't play much first due to injury reasons IIRC), but the votes given to him were based on a well earned rep.

How did Carlos earn that reputation? That's usually what screws up human voters. Its baffling to me.
If he played those CAA games like he did so far this year, no way he would have earned a subjectively good rep

 

[two3zone]

I thought it might be because he had huge steal stats, which sometimes don't always value a player appropriately and are appealing to voters. But it wasn't that.

My guess is that Hofstra's defensive system is fairly different than ours, and it played to some elements of Carlos' awareness / hid some of his weakness, that the system does not here.

That being said I'm not for widely changing things around to make it work OK for Carlos.

I believe what you're saying to be true, I also think that a lot of our guys aren't being played to their individual strengths. Maybe Lampkin?

 

[rrlbees]

Rafael Palmero won a gold glove playing 15 games. Human voting is subjective, these awards are hardly ever accurate.

Human voting is subjective. But how else can you do it? Plus, maybe he wasn’t the best but being voted the best means as a minimum he was one of the best.

 

[two3zone]

Rafael Palmeiro won that flawed gold glove because he had been a great defensive first baseman (in prior years and had earned a reputation. Him getting it that year was dumb (as he didn't play much first due to injury reasons IIRC), but the votes given to him were based on a well earned rep.

How did Carlos earn that reputation? That's usually what screws up human voters. Its baffling to me.
If he played those CAA games like he did so far this year, no way he would have earned a subjectively good rep

I thought Joe had a much better year than Judah did and Judah made 2nd team. I'm just saying that coaches that see a player once or twice isn't really the best way to create awards.

 

[two3zone]

Human voting is subjective. But how else can you do it? Plus, maybe he wasn’t the best but being voted the best means as a minimum he was one of the best.

I don't know, but that's why we're having the conversation because there isn't an exact science to it.

But I trusted the adjusted defensive numbers for the ACC a heck of lot more than his defensive awards.

We could go on for years about awards going to the wrong people, including a lot of our players who've been snubbed.