It boils down to this we need a new offensive identity and now

[Alsacs]

We have a defensive identity and it works against most teams not named Virginia/Pitt. Our defense is the identity of the program.

Our offensive identity is just NBA Iso and pick roll. We run the curl play for our designated 2 guard but don't do much more on offense. This has to change. Expecting to fit round pegs in square holes has stagnated the offense since 2012.

The program needs a new offensive identity. We have neglected the offense and if anyone asks this question it is met with the defenders of the wall. Nobody wants JB to be gone but expecting adjustments is not blasphemy.

Our offensive identity doesn't need a tweak it needs an overhaul.

 

[Col. Bleep]

Our offensive identity doesn't need a tweak it needs an overhaul.

The way we've played down the stretch is very offensive.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Our offensive identity doesn't need a tweak it needs an overhaul.

Unfortunately, there is nothing to suggest anything will change, let alone an overhaul. The head coach just thinks it's a matter of making more shots. If this is the extent of thought he has put into it, then we're going nowhere. It's puzzling, really. Supposedly he has a burning passion to win more than anybody, but he sure seems to think what he's doing gives his program the best chance to be successful. So much so, that he won't change a darned thing. Ever.

 

[Czar]

We have a defensive identity and it works against most teams not named Virginia/Pitt. Our defense is the identity of the program.

Our offensive identity is just NBA Iso and pick roll. We run the curl play for our designated 2 guard but don't do much more on offense. This has to change. Expecting to fit round pegs in square holes has stagnated the offense since 2012.

The program needs a new offensive identity. We have neglected the offense and if anyone asks this question it is met with the defenders of the wall. Nobody wants JB to be gone but expecting adjustments is not blasphemy.

Our offensive identity doesn't need a tweak it needs an overhaul.

Calling our offense an NBA offense is insulting to the NBA. They actually run plays now.

 

[RF2044]

We have a defensive identity and it works against most teams not named Virginia/Pitt. Our defense is the identity of the program.

Our offensive identity is just NBA Iso and pick roll. We run the curl play for our designated 2 guard but don't do much more on offense. This has to change. Expecting to fit round pegs in square holes has stagnated the offense since 2012.

The program needs a new offensive identity. We have neglected the offense and if anyone asks this question it is met with the defenders of the wall. Nobody wants JB to be gone but expecting adjustments is not blasphemy.

Our offensive identity doesn't need a tweak it needs an overhaul.

Generally false. We've primarily been iso and pick and roll lately because our lead guard play has been subpar these past two years [and a third, factoring in Ennis's limitations / mitake avoidant ball control orientation].

Here's what it REALLY all boils down to: we need improved point guard play. We get that, and a lot of our offensive isses / problems disappear. We need a legitimate lead guard out on the floor who can handle defensive pressure, get the team into half court offensive sets, and make something happen off of the bounce if the play breaks down.

It literally is as simple as that.

Quade Green, come on down.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Well we haven't had a forward we could run the offense through since CJ left.

That's when we are at our best. I think that's how it will be with Lydon next year, or at least I hope.

 

[JoeSU]

I really think this is a generalization based just on this season. JB likes to run the offense through his most reliable scorers. When we were playing well early in the season, we were getting production from a lot of guys besides Gbinje. As the season wore on, Roberson, Cooney, and Richardson all faded, so we became much easier to defend.

 

[two3zone]

Generally false. We've primarily been iso and pick and roll lately because our lead guard play has been subpar these past two years [and a third, factoring in Ennis's limitations / mitake avoidant ball control orientation].

Here's what it REALLY all boils down to: we need improved point guard play. We get that, and a lot of our offensive isses / problems disappear. We need a legitimate lead guard out on the floor who can handle defensive pressure, get the team into half court offensive sets, and make something happen off of the bounce if the play breaks down.

It literally is as simple as that.

Quade Green, come on down.

We had that with Ennis and it still didn't work. The system is old and defenses are just far too athletic and quick to react to almost every offense set we throw out there. We haven't had any sort of ball movement in 4 years, while having a great point guard is good to have, if you don't have 4 other guys who can catch or pass the ball it doesn't matter who you have.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Cooney faded for sure in conference play, but Roberson, Lydon and Malachi all had eFG% better than 50%. Malachi shot 41% from 3 in conference play, but ranked 3rd in 3PA on the team behind G and you know who.

SU didn't do enough this season to run the offense through their most efficient scorers. At their pace of play, they can't afford to not score efficiently.

 

[RF2044]

We had that with Ennis and it still didn't work. The system is old and defenses are just far too athletic and quick to react to almost every offense set we throw out there. We haven't had any sort of ball movement in 4 years, while having a great point guard is good to have, if you don't have 4 other guys who can catch or pass the ball it doesn't matter who you have.

Here's the thing: we DIDN'T have that with Ennis. Ennis was a player who had a preternatural ability to take care of the ball, but often at the expense of pushing the ball, the transition game, or making aggressive / risky passes. I'm not knocking Ennis; he had a solid freshman year, and was a good player. But he also had some shortcomings that hampered the team a bit with his propensity to walk it up and play conservatively.

4 years ago we had MCW, who was amongst the NCAA leaders in assists, and Triche. We passed the ball fine. That team's real offensive issues were that we didn't have much of an inside game, and we didn't shoot it great -- that's what made us easy to defend and anemic offensively.

The year before, on that fantastic 2012 team, we also shot inconsistently and didn't have much of an inside game, but we were so good defensively, generated so many turnovers, and thrived so much in transition that it easily offset those shortcomings.

Put Monte Morris [who legitimately wanted to come here Ennis's year] on the team instead of Ennis, and the past three years would have been totally different, and we wouldn't be talking about the offensive system being a liability. It wouldn't be with an adept lead guard at the helm.

 

[Jasoncuse]

I agree completely. Without skilled enough players, especially at PG, you can't run the same exact offense over and over and over. And that's really all we run. We'll go with the pick and roll and if nothing is there, the guard picks up his dribble, waits for help, then restarts again. There's little to no drive and dish and the lack of ball and player movement just slows the offense to a crawl. I thought the 30 second shot clock would speed us up a little bit, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The pace of play is a huge problem for us. See below:

Offense since 08-09

08-09=6 Pace-34
09-10=9 Pace-55
00-11=29 Pace-177
11-12=7 Pace-209
12-13=29 Pace-252
13-14=37 Pace-343
14-15=145 Pace-88
15-16=75 Pace-320

Even with MCW, Waiters and Triche we still weren't an uptempo team. Our fastest team was last year, and that was our worst team on offense since 01-02. When we first started playing 100% zone in the late oughts teams didn't hold the ball as long against us, as they do now. Now teams seem to probe the zone and it leads to us playing defense longer than literally every other team in the country. Two out of the last three teams have been that way. We really haven't run since 2010 and thats when we had Rautins, Triche and Scoop at guard. We play more halfcourt offense than just about any other program in the country.

 

[dollarbill44]

Unfortunately, there is nothing to suggest anything will change, let alone an overhaul. The head coach just thinks it's a matter of making more shots. If this is the extent of thought he has put into it, then we're going nowhere. It's puzzling, really. Supposedly he has a burning passion to win more than anybody, but he sure seems to think what he's doing gives his program the best chance to be successful. So much so, that he won't change a darned thing. Ever.

I agree with this. JB used to put much more time and effort into offense. We used to have a lot more motion, screens, double screens, inside-out action. I think he has bought into the 2-3 zone hype a little too much to the detriment of the offense. We used to have much more offensive balance. The last couple of years, we've had very little offensive ability. I think we had enough talent this year, but no apparent scheme to utilize it. Dribbling around the perimeter until you pick up your dribble, then passing it to someone who does the same, then putting up a contested 3 as the shot clock winds down, is not a viable winning strategy. But, that has been a large share of our possessions the last 3 years.

SU also used to have multiple full-court inbounds plays in the past - and they worked.

 

[IthacaMatt]

We had that with Ennis and it still didn't work. The system is old and defenses are just far too athletic and quick to react to almost every offense set we throw out there. We haven't had any sort of ball movement in 4 years, while having a great point guard is good to have, if you don't have 4 other guys who can catch or pass the ball it doesn't matter who you have.

Well, a big limitation with Ennis was that he NEVER ran the fast break, even when it was there. He was told, I'm sure, to limit his turnovers, and so he took no chances with a fast break, when our offensive efficiency is predicated on getting those easy baskets in transition. That's why the roof fell in at the end of the season - we had become too predictable (again) on offense.

 

[RF2044]

I agree completely. Without skilled enough players, especially at PG, you can't run the same exact offense over and over and over. And that's really all we run. We'll go with the pick and roll and if nothing is there, the guard picks up his dribble, waits for help, then restarts again. There's little to no drive and dish and the lack of ball and player movement just slows the offense to a crawl. I thought the 30 second shot clock would speed us up a little bit, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

This was my concern with Gbinije playing lead guard, a position he isn't suited for. Yes, he was great scoring and had a fine year playing out of position--not knocking his overall capabilities. But when the defenders would bounce outside to hedge off of the screen, invariably Gbinije went further outside, or picked his dribble up and waited for help. He wasn't a playmaker off of the bounce much [he excels at creating his own shot, but was merely an adequate facilitator in our half court offensive sets].

The issues weren't all on Gbinije, to be clear. This was a year when teams could cheat off of the inside because Roberson / Coleman generally weren't a threat to burn teams inside.

 

[Jasoncuse]

This was my concern with Gbinije playing lead guard, a position he isn't suited for. Yes, he was great scoring and had a fine year playing out of position--not knocking his overall capabilities. But when the defenders would bounce outside to hedge off of the screen, invariably Gbinije went further outside, or picked his dribble up and waited for help. He wasn't a playmaker off of the bounce much [he excels at creating his own shot, but was merely an adequate facilitator in our half court offensive sets].

The issues weren't all on Gbinije, to be clear. This was a year when teams could cheat off of the inside because Roberson / Coleman generally weren't a threat to burn teams inside.

Absolutely. G isn't a PG, and never will be. He was fine creating his own shot for the most part, but any time he was running the O as a PG trying to facilitate, it did not go well. I don't blame him at all. This is on the coaching staff, not the player.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think that our offense will improve a lot next season because our least efficient offensive player won't be second on the team in field goal attempts.

Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Do we still believe Ennis' walking the ball up wasn't Boeheim's call? I mean there is no way he wasn't playing the way he was asked to be Boeheim without the world knowing it.

Boeheim has been about running clock and shortening the game for the last few years. SU didn't run a ton with MCW/Triche/CJ/Grant/Southerland either.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I hope people can truly appreciate how good G was given all that was against him this year. Without him we don't win 10 games. All while playing a foreign, and most challenging, position!

 

[Ghost]

Generally false. We've primarily been iso and pick and roll lately because our lead guard play has been subpar these past two years [and a third, factoring in Ennis's limitations / mitake avoidant ball control orientation].

Here's what it REALLY all boils down to: we need improved point guard play. We get that, and a lot of our offensive isses / problems disappear. We need a legitimate lead guard out on the floor who can handle defensive pressure, get the team into half court offensive sets, and make something happen off of the bounce if the play breaks down.

It literally is as simple as that.

Quade Green, come on down.

Yup. It's been a HUGE issue the past two years. That's not a shot on G, who performed as well (better) than could have been expected, but the PG position is too important for us to neglect it like this. The offense just goes stagnant far too easily when you don't have anyone who is great with the dribble-drive, and I think it bleeds over into everyone's games. The big men will be less engaged, people tend to linger in place - it just makes the team too easy to defend.

 

[Ghost]

Do we still believe Ennis' walking the ball up wasn't Boeheim's call? I mean there is no way he wasn't playing the way he was asked to be Boeheim without the world knowing it.

Boeheim has been about running clock and shortening the game for the last few years. SU didn't run a ton with MCW/Triche/CJ/Grant/Southerland either.

Whoooo knows, but I was never in love with Ennis. Hard to argue when we're 25-0 though! He was good though, definitely had an incredible ability to limit mistakes - even with the slow-style of play. Kid was steady.

 

[Madbiker]

I don't know that the offensive problem is systemic or scheme oriented. Seems more like it's not having enough high level talent. JB's system has worked well for a very long time...when he has very talented players to execute the system. Our PG play has been sub par since MCW left. SU has always relied on high scoring forwards and now we don't have that either. Up the recruiting and bring in a true PG not more combo guards.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Just need improved guard play. Not even PG play. Cooney was never a combo guard in the sense of Triche, McNamara, Rautins, Dion, or Scoop (they were all 6+ ASTper40). So with a strictly SG and no real PG or 3rd guard, Syracuse just had no options.

That's why if Kaleb transfers, I'm going to be a very sad panda if there is no other guard brought in 2016 and the scholarship sits unused.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Just need improved guard play. Not even PG play. Cooney was never a combo guard in the sense of Triche, McNamara, Rautins, Dion, or Scoop (they were all 6+ ASTper40). So with a strictly SG and no real PG or 3rd guard, Syracuse just had no options.

That's why if Kaleb transfers, I'm going to be a very sad panda if there is no other guard brought in 2016 and the scholarship sits unused.

They HAVE to bring in a fifth year guard in that case.

You can't tell me some ivy league guard wouldn't jump at the chance

 

[two3zone]

I hope people can truly appreciate how good G was given all that was against him this year. Without him we don't win 10 games. All while playing a foreign, and most challenging, position!

There is a lot to be said about this and that post game presser that JB gave years ago.

I think that team JB said we wouldn't have won 10 games with wins 10 games without question. This year and last year I think is the first time that it can honestly be said that without "player X (Rak last year, G this year" we don't win 10 games. I don't think we sniff 10 with Joseph or Howard playing and G gone and I don't think we win 10 without Rak in the middle last year. It's scary how great those guys were for us and how they carried these teams on their backs.