It's Time to Pull the Plug on Babers

[bothsocksup]

You've been more diplomatic than most, but I don't think the OP is crazy.
Getting curb-stomped by Maryland, FSU, BC, and Louisville, and looking hapless against a terrible NC State team (coming off of a bye), is really poor. Sprinkle in the o-line mess, his chosen QB's mental errors, other teams offenses having program record days, "no film," and brand new coaches running a spread, hurry-up offense more effective than us, and it's truly cause for concern. I mean, how much better does the team look this year than in year 1? Team is a mess, and that's despite our schedule is easy.

I am not in the fire Dino camp. But i dont begrudge those who are and voice their opinion on the matter.

Spot on

 

[Scooch]

The talent we have is inferior to fo along with bad coaching from the position coaches.

How many NFL draft picks have we had on offense this decade? 2010-2019?
Ryan Nassib-QB 4th round 2013
Justin Pugh- OL 1st round 2013
Zero RBs and WRs.

We don’t have game breakers.
Where are our Stefan Diggs, Leonte Carroo NFL picks at WR.

Our biggest problem is talent. We don’t get the 4 star talent at skill position. Dino has brought in some speed it’s just underclassmen.

Tutu Atwell’s make coaches look good.
They turn 30 yard plays into 90 yard TDs.

I really don’t get why you’re trashing our talent, and still saying Dino isn’t any part of our issues. He’s the GM, he brings in the talent, and it’s year 4. He owns the talent, lock stock and barrel.

 

[Scooch]

So what. Who cares. Stop making excuses. SU has more to offer than soooo many other schools. Lets hire some good assistant coaches. Hire some dynamic recruiters. Stop the CNY excuse half glass crap.

Who cares that we literally have no recruiting base within 200 miles of the school? You’re delusional. Seriously delusional.

 

[dasher]

The talent we have is inferior to fo along with bad coaching from the position coaches.

How many NFL draft picks have we had on offense this decade? 2010-2019?
Ryan Nassib-QB 4th round 2013
Justin Pugh- OL 1st round 2013
Zero RBs and WRs.

We don’t have game breakers.
Where are our Stefan Diggs, Leonte Carroo NFL picks at WR.

Our biggest problem is talent. We don’t get the 4 star talent at skill position. Dino has brought in some speed it’s just underclassmen.

Tutu Atwell’s make coaches look good.
They turn 30 yard plays into 90 yard TDs.

We won 10 games last year. the recruiting should have up ticked this year. It really hasn't. That is on dino and the staff.

 

[dasher]

So does Jordan. Jackson

Tell that to Churchill.

You think England would have defeated Germany without us? Not a chance.

 

[Townie72]

Those who don’t understand why DB is going to given every chance and a very long time to succeed at SU don’t understand the University and it’s hierarchy. He’s got an engaging personality and has shown some success.

A few frustrated fans on a message board are insignificant. Financially the Athletic Department is doing well. There is no emergency.

Three or four more years of four win seasons might provoke a change.

 

[Cuse12]

I am still all for Dino and do not see that changing unless we repeat this season next year (which I truly can’t imagine but if so that’s not good).

What frustrates me is how Louisville has a first year head coach who might be able to win 9 games in his first year. I do not think we should have been this poor of a team this year at all. It’s disappointing to see other peer schools who had bad seasons last year just look so much more complete of a team in year 1 of a new coaching regime.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

You've been more diplomatic than most, but I don't think the OP is crazy.
Getting curb-stomped by Maryland, FSU, BC, and Louisville, and looking hapless against a terrible NC State team (coming off of a bye), is really poor. Sprinkle in the o-line mess, his chosen QB's mental errors, other teams offenses having program record days, "no film," and brand new coaches running a spread, hurry-up offense more effective than us, and it's truly cause for concern. I mean, how much better does the team look this year than in year 1? Team is a mess, and that's despite our schedule is easy.

I am not in the fire Dino camp. But i dont begrudge those who are and voice their opinion on the matter.

100% agree. Dino has one more year for me. 4 of 5 crap years is my limit. But I can’t kill someone for whom it’s 3 of 4. I disagree but it’s not crazy imo

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

Those who don’t understand why DB is going to given every chance and a very long time to succeed at SU don’t understand the University and it’s hierarchy. He’s got an engaging personality and has shown some success.

A few frustrated fans on a message board are insignificant. Financially the Athletic Department is doing well. There is no emergency.

Three or four more years of four win seasons might provoke a change.

Syracuse must be the only fan base where stone cold sober “fans” can even theoretically be ok with 7 of 8 seasons with 4 wins or less and then say “maybe then it will be time for a change”.

Freaking embarrassing.

Signed - a guy who doesn’t want him fired but who wants to support a school that has at least some measure of ambition

 

[orlandoorange]

Dont get me wrong i hope Dino is here for the next 10 years. I think he is perfect for SU. I simply hope that he upgrades his staff. Coaches are like teachers, like business managers, like doctor's, lawyers, mechanics, electricians...
There are bad, good, better, best at everything. We have all experienced the range of ineptitude and excellence. We have all at some point in our lives been exceptional or inept at something.
I played three sports in HS. Football/QB DB. Basketball Guard mostly 2, Baseball pitcher and 3rd. I also played Hockey. Left wing but chose basketball after 7th ggrade.At this point in life i ski, raft, and climb and still play rec bball. I have started, worked for and ran companies and its my personal believe that based on my life experiences that great management regardless of what is being attempted is the difference between winning and losing.
The Allies didnt win the war because of better athletes or facilities. We won because we had better coaching and game/battlefield management.
Dont get me wrong your not going to flush many pheasants with a poodle but this years SU team has more than enough talent to perform significantly better than it has.
Dino is fine. His assistant coaches are weak. SU is well positioned from a resource standpoint to succeed. We have an excellent administration. They have been extremely supportive. No more excuses. Hire some talented managers and the next thing you know the company will do better.

I agree with your comments. I'd only add that he is responsible for hiring and retaining the assistant coaches you referred to as weak.

This is all his work. Hes great, I'd love to be his best friend, but right now last year is the outlier.

I don't think you can let a guy go after a 10 win season, but there has to be marked improvement next year.

The flip side of this is what have we seen from him that warrants belief in his ability to judge coaching talent and make good choices?

 

[Cuse#1]

I agree that last year's 10-3 was about as fluky as 10-3 can be. There's a lot wrong with this team right now. Dino's never been a great Xs and Os guy. He's a CEO type who has some strengths. I certainly would not be in favor of firing him after this season for a multitude of reasons.

Next season, I think Tommy will be better - I expect a Nassib like trajectory. I think the offensive line is already showing signs that it will be an improved, functional unit next season. The defense returns a lot of talented kids. In other words, if the team get's its mind right, it's play should improve significantly.

We have about as soft a schedule as one could hope for next season. Yes, the Dome reno makes September a little squirrelly, but our non conference games are @ Rutgers, Colgate, @ WMU, and Liberty. If we are not bowl eligible with that schedule, and the amount of players we are returning, I would be fine with moving on from Babers.

Edit: Also, we are not 4-8, yet. Let's see how we come out next Saturday.

Make some good points and of course I am not in the camp of firing Babers which I would think would be very small but There obviously needs to be some changes! They need to spend some money and get a good sound defensive coordinator. get away from the Tampa 2 because it flat out sucks for this program, but I believe there’s some talent on this defense going forward and should play much better and not get abused the way they have been week in and week out.
In terms of recruiting I’m not exactly happy or too excited but I tend to look more at the offers the player has instead of the rating and this season I don’t know so I’m hoping they can pick that up a little bit. Outside of the guy Kinsley we got out of Florida there really isn’t too much of that I’m getting too excited about with this current class and that’s disappointing coming off the season that we had in 2018 but I understand the challenges we have and Really hoping that all the upgrades were making is going to help in that area.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

100% agree. Dino has one more year for me. 4 of 5 crap years is my limit. But I can’t kill someone for whom it’s 3 of 4. I disagree but it’s not crazy imo

Record isn’t as important for me next as how we play. If we are year 1/2 4-8 then I’ll still have faith. If we are cluster F 4-8 like this year, I will be all out. But I still think he comes back for one more year as a dead man walking.

 

[FloridaFan]

Honest question. How many players are still here from babers first recruiting class or so here?

 

[Cuse#1]

I don’t care if all the admins or the “stature” posters made this thread I would still laugh.
he gave us our first 10 win season in a long long long time.
So after that he stumbles to a 4 or 5 win season. It happens we are not at a point where we can plug and play.
Pulling the plug would set us back another 5 years or hell never see 10 wins again in 20 years.
This will be Dino’s first “X” on his tenure here.
First two seasons where a massive rebuild with Big East talent at most positions and no depth.
Way to many positive things have happened to this program with Dino to pull the plug now.

This a terrible post and yes I would tell anyone on this board the same thing.

Very good post and remember even in the first two seasons when we finished 4-8 they were very many positives but depth came into play Both years when Dungey got hurt and had nobody in his hemisphere to replace him and we would lose! but we had huge upsets in each of the first two years

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

Record isn’t as important for me next as how we play. If we are year 1/2 4-8 then I’ll still have faith. If we are cluster F 4-8 like this year, I will be all out. But I still think he comes back for one more year as a dead man walking.

It’s about how we play and the decisions the coaches make. Heck an exciting 5-7 where the kids are in every game and competing and we are throwing downfield on throwing downs will be enough for me insofar as progress

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

I don’t care if all the admins or the “stature” posters made this thread I would still laugh.
he gave us our first 10 win season in a long long long time.
So after that he stumbles to a 4 or 5 win season. It happens we are not at a point where we can plug and play.
Pulling the plug would set us back another 5 years or hell never see 10 wins again in 20 years.
This will be Dino’s first “X” on his tenure here.
First two seasons where a massive rebuild with Big East talent at most positions and no depth.
Way to many positive things have happened to this program with Dino to pull the plug now.

This a terrible post and yes I would tell anyone on this board the same thing.

I don’t want him fired.

But devils advocate we can all agree that one 10 win season does not get him permanent status right? I’m seeing people say he would need to win 4 or less 4 more times before we would consider a change. That’s freaking ridiculous

 

[Scooch]

Those who don’t understand why DB is going to given every chance and a very long time to succeed at SU don’t understand the University and it’s hierarchy. He’s got an engaging personality and has shown some success.

A few frustrated fans on a message board are insignificant. Financially the Athletic Department is doing well. There is no emergency.

Three or four more years of four win seasons might provoke a change.

I generally agree, but I think 3 or 4 more seasons is a stretch. I’ll venture a guess that if we were only to win 4 gams next season and the season after, he’ll be gone. I do think he has two more years of guaranteed employment , no matter the record on the field. Even SU can’t keep him around if he’s had five terrible seasons in 6 years.

 

[tep624]

I think Dino is the right guy. Part of how things have been disjointed makes me wonder if he was just giving too long a leash to the OC/DC who, at this point, should have been capable of having a longer leash.

So, I think we need to eliminate both coordinators and go out and get a couple of seasoned guys in the offseason. Guys with a proven track record of success working with these systems.

Talent is not the issue. Depth is an issue but talent is not. We have the talent to compete with anyone. Even this year, this is a 7-8 win team and this is what is so frustrating about the whole situation.

Remember, even as disjointed as this season was, this was a team that went 3 fairly competitive quarters with Clemson. That didn't happen by accident.

 

[FloridaFan]

Honest question. How many players are still here from babers first recruiting class or so here?

Answered my own question. I count about 33 total from his first 2 classes. If you assume 22-23 is a full class then we are missing 13 people or so that should be seniors rn that either couldn’t make it or transfered our/Medical DQ. I honestly think that’s something that’s never talked about

 

[Cuse#1]

I’m sorry but in my opinion this is such a stupid premature post talking about firing Baber’s that would put us back for years and probably won’t even get anybody better to replace him.

 

[Cusefan69]

If the scenario is HCDFB is replacing his DC and his OC you should probably plan another 3 years of timeline barring a 2-9 type season. A set of Coordinators won't come on board if only given 1 year to succeed. I would also expect that if we are changing both Coordinators positions that we may not take every recruit that has committed to this point, depending on who those people are. The off season should be interesting to observe.

 

[kcsu]

If you believe that there's no sense engaging in this.

I do. Syracuse has so much to offer. Great and getting better facilities, the ACCN, top class education, opportunity to play some of the best teams in the country, and the only climate controlled stadium in the east which within a year will become one of the best venues in all of College football. Simply put baring an injury to our starting QB SU should always be in a bowl game. We should always land a top 50 recruiting class, every 3-4 years we should have an exceptional season. We should never have a losing season and never field a team that gives up 600 yards. That is what SU should expect and im sure that is the Administration's goal.

 

[SUfanNC]

Serious question, if you were hired as the coach when Dino was hired given what was inherited what sort of time frame would you hope to get?

 

[kcsu]

Who cares that we literally have no recruiting base within 200 miles of the school? You’re delusional. Seriously delusional.

No. Im realistic. How many kids does Navy Army Minnesota Iowa Iowa State Missouri Kentucky Appalachian State Clemson BC Pittsburg NDSU Michigan State Ol Miss Oregon Oregon St Arizona Arizona State Louisville TELL ME WHEN TO STOP. Have on their roster of kids within 200 miles.
NY NJ Pennsylvania MD Ohio Florida NE Juco Transfers RS kids development. Dont whine about the fact that SU isnt located in South Florida. Do you think that Oregon whines.
Was Hop able to land kids from other states. Seriously are you delusional?

 

[tep624]

If the scenario is HCDFB is replacing his DC and his OC you should probably plan another 3 years of timeline barring a 2-9 type season. A set of Coordinators won't come on board if only given 1 year to succeed. I would also expect that if we are changing both Coordinators positions that we may not take every recruit that has committed to this point, depending on who those people are. The off season should be interesting to observe.

I honestly don't know how replacing both coordinators can't be on the table at this point.

Wildhack is closer to this situation than any one of us. If it's his assessment that Dino is effective, then the next layer has to be largely responsible. Sometimes you just need to cut the cord for the long term health of the organization.

We already fired a DC and didn't lose a single recruit because of it. I'm not that concerned about losing recruits outside of Dino being fired.