JB defenders...a message to you...

[Jake]

I hate to weigh in on this thread, but I am WAAAAAAAY closer to Iommi on this than the other end of the spectrum. I'm freaking tired of all the issues.

From the center jump to the final horn, JB is one of the best to EVER coach. But the fact of the matter is, off the court, he has a Lassiez faire policy towards the players. At some point, that is going to catch up with you. And it is now. All at once seemingly.

As for the Melo situation - kids don't become ineligible overnight. So the staff and academic support folks must have known Melo entered this season as an "at risk" player. Someone should have been on his ass weekly to make sure all the necessary work was being done - especially in fall semester with the likelihood that he was going pro after this year. JB needed to send that message to his staff and academic support. If he didn't, shame on JB, if he didn't make sure it was followed, shame on JB. This isn't like a football program where you have 85 players to keep an eye on. A basketball program has one, maybe two kids each year that you have "on the brink" that you have to babysit. NO excuse for this.

As far as the drug testing thing goes. Yeah I know college kids do drugs. But I know tons of athletes that don't. Are we the only program with kids failing drug tests? no. But my biggest issue with that event was JB"s "it happened five years ago remark". Really? It was last season that we self-reported. Do you not think that reporters are going to follow up on that comment? He speaks publicly with a mirage of impunity and he's been doing for years now.

This has all the signs of a very, very bad ending for JB.

 

[iommi]

Great post, Jake. Thank you for your candor.

 

[jr4750]

Great post, Jake. Thank you for your candor.

Scared by that final statement Jake, but I feel you are probably right.

 

[44cuse]

I hear you. But I think we're soo close to the program that it seems worse to us than it does to outsides - or would if Bernie Fine and his wife weren't insane.

90% of college basketball fans think UConn runs a clean program. Maybe 25% of us do, but we follow they're program pretty closely.

50% probably think Kentucky does.

100% probably thinks Iowa does.

We see posts about Brandon Reece being a dick, or Melo drinking every night, we're never (unless you live near a program) hear about Player A at Famous State getting picked up with weed and let go because he's on Famous State.

We're hyper-aware of our problems, and now we're hyper-aware that everyone else knows. I don't know, I always assume we (and everyone else) is going to have their Fab Melo's or Deshauan Williams, and just live with it, while trying to enjoy the Scoop's - guys that may have gone down the same path but didn't and became a credit to the school in the process. We've had a lot of those guys too.

Duke doesn't seem to have any problems, but we hate them.

44cuse

 

[Ghost]

Duke doesn't seem to have any problems, but we hate them.

44cuse

That's kind of my point. Do you live in Raleigh? I don't know that that's true. Would you think Iowa had lots of troubelmakers? Probably not, but from living there - I know they did at least while I was there. It just usually never hits the radar - Pierre Pierce was the exception, but he probably assaulted half the city before he was finally removed from the team (bit of an exaggeration). Illinois had problems, you never hear about them though.

People in Iowa (prior to Bernie) would probably have said Syracuse runs a clean program unless they were around and recall back when we were on probation. I just kind of assume all these elite schools have the same problems.

I don't know, I just assume we all have bad eggs - and mostly the stories stay local or get covered up altogether.

 

[Cusefan95]

This has all the signs of a very, very bad ending for JB.

Sooooo...on the football side we've talked about how it will take years for Penn State to recover from what's gone on there last year. If/when this ends badly for JB, what's the likelihood that Syracuse finds themselves in the same position as DePaul/Houston/Arkansas/St John's - programs with long storied histories that can't seem to ever get off the mat?

I know if I was Mike Hopkins I'd be making sure my resume was up-to-date - if/when the hits the fan he should run like hell away from the program as fast as he possibly can. If its even his option.

 

[iommi]

I think it's more likely JB stays and coaches one more year and announces his retirement after the 2012-2013 campaign. We'll start a new chapter of SU basketball with a new coach in the ACC starting in the 2013-2014. I'm guessing it will be Hopkins but if the shite does hit the fan, who knows how this will shake down...

 

[bevosu]

I think we all need a group hug.

 

[storange]

I love this board and respect the vast majority of people and their opinions. That being said, there are a number of very prominent posters on this board who get very up in arms if any criticism comes JB's way.

Enough is enough.

It's time for a change. The buck stops with one man. James Arthur Boeheim. I know we'll hear from the blind loyalists...things like, "How can Boeheim be expected to know EVERYTHING that is going on in his program?" I guess he can't. But there has been a trend of off-the-court bs for decades at Syracuse. I don't want to hear, "it happens at all programs." That's a cop out. There is one man who is the face of this "franchise." If we are willing to blast Calipari and Calhoun and everyone else for their transgressions: why is JB immune to that same criticism? This year we've become a poster child for what is wrong with big-time college sports programs. My apologies to class acts in our program like Kris Joseph, just to name one example of someone who seems to get what an honor and a privilege it is to be in his position.

I know what people will say: Jim Boeheim has meant so much to this school...to this community...he does tons of charity work. That is all well and good and those are things that should be applauded. But what about the other coin: seemingly every year it's one thing or another off the court. I am an alum and a fan and I'm sick of it. I'm frankly sick of being one of those apologists with my friends and family and random 'Cuse and JB bashers.

It's time for a change. JB needs to resign. I'm not even sure Mike Hopkins is the best replacement. He learned everything from JB...played for him and has been an assistant for a long time too. I think it's time to hand the reins over the someone from the outside and start fresh. I have no clue who that is but maybe someone like Shaka Smart, I don't know... or Brad Stevens...someone young and energetic. And someone who values values.

Oh, and Fab Melo: you are a loser and my least favorite player ever to wear the uniform. Go home to Brazil and I wish you zero success in your future endeavors.

Character counts.

 

[storange]

what a waste of time to read this rubbish

 

[brandokc]

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but here's a nice write up on Kansas. http://www.shaggybevo.com/board/showthread.php/86238-KU-off-the-court-history-under-Self

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[MyMeloMyMan]

Why didnt they bring back those 2 chicks who were doing all of Todd Burgan's work...errrr..tutoring him... when he was in trouble?? Would have been smart..

 

[RF2044]

As for the Melo situation - kids don't become ineligible overnight. So the staff and academic support folks must have known Melo entered this season as an "at risk" player. Someone should have been on his ass weekly to make sure all the necessary work was being done - especially in fall semester with the likelihood that he was going pro after this year. JB needed to send that message to his staff and academic support. If he didn't, shame on JB, if he didn't make sure it was followed, shame on JB. This isn't like a football program where you have 85 players to keep an eye on. A basketball program has one, maybe two kids each year that you have "on the brink" that you have to babysit. NO excuse for this.
.

Are you certain that the above is the reason?

I'm hearing differently.

 

[Scooch]

Great post by Jake.

I'm sick to death of this too. Every friggin' year we have kids getting in trouble for drugs, academics, abuse, sex, etc. It's just so damn exhausting.

I've long said that if you want to enjoy the success that JB has brought to this program, then you have to live with the consequences of the "way" he does it. We get certain kinds of kids in this program because of the way he runs it. Classic double-edged sword. Those that defend JB off the court haven't ever really had a leg to stand on.

I'd love to have one ing year that doesn't have yield some epic show.

One ing year.

 

[OttoMets]

From the center jump to the final horn, JB is one of the best to EVER coach. But the fact of the matter is, off the court, he has a Lassiez faire policy towards the players. At some point, that is going to catch up with you. And it is now. All at once seemingly.

Good post, Jake. And I hope it doesn't end badly for Boeheim. But his management of the program has left something to be desired. He's been skirting rules, pulling strings, and quietly saving both his players' eligibility and his own record for decades. As you said, it's going to catch up with him.

It's nice to see someone closer to the program than 99% of the other posters acknowledge the problems here. The "Boeheim walks on water" mantra seems to be more tightly held than usual this season.

 

[Brian Orange]

One thing is for certain. We can put to rest the statement that all this bad stuff off the court "happens to every other program too". Not anymore. It's just us.

 

[Cuseman78]

I hate to weigh in on this thread, but I am WAAAAAAAY closer to Iommi on this than the other end of the spectrum. I'm freaking tired of all the issues.

From the center jump to the final horn, JB is one of the best to EVER coach. But the fact of the matter is, off the court, he has a Lassiez faire policy towards the players. At some point, that is going to catch up with you. And it is now. All at once seemingly.

As for the Melo situation - kids don't become ineligible overnight. So the staff and academic support folks must have known Melo entered this season as an "at risk" player. Someone should have been on his ass weekly to make sure all the necessary work was being done - especially in fall semester with the likelihood that he was going pro after this year. JB needed to send that message to his staff and academic support. If he didn't, shame on JB, if he didn't make sure it was followed, shame on JB. This isn't like a football program where you have 85 players to keep an eye on. A basketball program has one, maybe two kids each year that you have "on the brink" that you have to babysit. NO excuse for this.

As far as the drug testing thing goes. Yeah I know college kids do drugs. But I know tons of athletes that don't. Are we the only program with kids failing drug tests? no. But my biggest issue with that event was JB"s "it happened five years ago remark". Really? It was last season that we self-reported. Do you not think that reporters are going to follow up on that comment? He speaks publicly with a mirage of impunity and he's been doing for years now.

This has all the signs of a very, very bad ending for JB.

Spot on. My thoughts exactly. Well put.

 

[CuseEffectWarning]

Gross gets off scott free? It has gotten much worse under his watch. All he does is ask for money and fly around on the University dime to LA and NYC. He has no control over anything.

 

[Ghost]

Great post by Jake.

I'm sick to death of this too. Every friggin' year we have kids getting in trouble for drugs, academics, abuse, sex, etc. It's just so damn exhausting.

I've long said that if you want to enjoy the success that JB has brought to this program, then you have to live with the consequences of the "way" he does it. We get certain kinds of kids in this program because of the way he runs it. Classic double-edged sword. Those that defend JB off the court haven't ever really had a leg to stand on.

I'd love to have one ******* year that doesn't have yield some epic **** show.

One ******* year.

2010?

 

[Ghost]

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but here's a nice write up on Kansas. http://www.shaggybevo.com/board/showthread.php/86238-KU-off-the-court-history-under-Self

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Holy ****ing ****. That whole thing is beyond insane if it's all true, and I thought I knew bad.

This part is my favorite, as sad as it is to admit this, I lol'd - in fact I still am lol'ing:

While living in university paid for housing prior to being eligible for scholarship benefits, 18 year old Markieff Morris drunkenly shoots a lady with a BB gun from his dorm room window. Jayhawk towers is declared a less safe environment for women than Bagdad, as ku players will molest you in the elevators and sniper you as you attempt to flee the building. Deemed too important to next year’s season, no action is taken and ku anxiously awaits the determination if the Lawrence high school replacement classes are enough to clear him academically.

 

[Ghost]

Holy ****ing ****. That whole thing is beyond insane if it's all true, and I thought I knew bad.

This part is my favorite, as sad as it is to admit this, I lol'd - in fact I still am lol'ing:

While living in university paid for housing prior to being eligible for scholarship benefits, 18 year old Markieff Morris drunkenly shoots a lady with a BB gun from his dorm room window. Jayhawk towers is declared a less safe environment for women than Bagdad, as ku players will molest you in the elevators and sniper you as you attempt to flee the building. Deemed too important to next year’s season, no action is taken and ku anxiously awaits the determination if the Lawrence high school replacement classes are enough to clear him academically.

This is the greatest thing I have ever read. The whole thing. I wish I could like to link 10 times. I don't even care if the whole thing is made-up (doubtful) - it's still out of control.

Confirmation comes in the Darell Arthur case, that his grades were artificially changed and that his ‘graduation’ from high school wasn’t legit. His high school vacates their state championship for using ineligible players. Per NCAA rules the use of an ineligible player resulting from him violating the NCAA ethics clause, the proper application would result in forfeiture of all games participated, and KU would fall to 0-78 for the prior to years – the worst two year record in the history of NCAA basketball. Additionally Self would fall behind James Naismith for last place all time in winning % at ku with a 0.428. However, despite the school district and the local media already completing the legwork of the investigation and compiling the relevant information the NCAA never looks into the instance and instead forces Memphis to vacate all their wins during the same year for the same offense.

 

[Alcuse01]

Character counts.

I thought that post was terrible... but the last point you listed made me laugh.

character counts... What does a team of high character kids get you????
(the answer is a losing fb season). The other answer? (fired)

 

[syr02esq]

Take a long swig of beer and relax bud.

 

[brandokc]

Ghost,

I also work with Jeff Graves' childhood best friend. You would not believe what goes on there. Drugs, cars, women, money, etc. If people really think this stuff doesn't go on everywhere they need to wake up.

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[realorange]

I knew I'd get responses like this...already people are making excuses...surprise, surprise surprise.

Please list the "excuses" that to me are logical explanations versus your emotional conclusions.