Jim Boeheim post game press conference vs. Iowa

[Cuseregular]

not going to take the time to read through every thread, and generally agree it's time, but has anyone mentioned the current state of the sport with the one and done, two and done, etc. as being a hugely signficiant factor in the current state and demise of the program?

It would seem to be the biggest contributor to the demise and is compounded by the staffs recent lack of recruiting ability to plug in the gaps to address this new and modern dilemma. Its a non stop revolving wheel, it's always been that way but over a 3-4 year cycle giving players enough time to grow and improve and bring greater team success; but now that cycle is so shortened and has hurt the entire college game, us most acutely.

And based on the lack of NBA success of the guys who left it apparentely hasn't helped them to the degree they probably thought it would had they stayed. We know its certainly hurt us and with an old timer at the helm its evident the cliche' adapt or die rings true in that it's really unfair to expect a wholesale change in a guy after 44 years. So it's going to be up to the higher ups to make some tough decisions at the seasons end.

Tough circumstance all the way around and it all contributes to and encapsulates my own lack and declining interest in the game of college basketball in general going on several years now.

 

[Bayside44]

not going to take the time to read through every thread, and generally agree it's time, but has anyone mentioned the current state of the sport with the one and done, two and done, etc. as being a hugely signficiant factor in the current state and demise of the program?

It would seem to be the biggest contributor to the demise and is compounded by the staffs recent lack of recruiting ability to plug in the gaps to address this new and modern dilemma. Its a non stop revolving wheel, it's always been that way but over a 3-4 year cycle giving players enough time to grow and improve and bring greater team success; but now that cycle is so shortened and has hurt the entire college game, us most acutely.

And based on the lack of NBA success of the guys who left it apparentely hasn't helped them to the degree they probably thought it would had they stayed. We know its certainly hurt us and with an old timer at the helm its evident the cliche' adapt or die rings true in that it's really unfair to expect a wholesale change in a guy after 44 years. So it's going to be up to the higher ups to make some tough decisions at the seasons end.

Tough circumstance all the way around and it all contributes to and encapsulates my own lack and declining interest in the game of college basketball in general going on several years now.

Good post.

The guys who we would really "develop" like Fair, Joseph, etc in the recent past are now gone after one or two years. And I don't think JB accounted for those guys leaving early (minus Battle) b/c it doesn't fit his logic of being ready for the next level.

 

[OttoMets]

He’s not wrong, we’re not making shots. Lot of good open looks to from bunnies, to midrange to 3’s. Clang.

Sometimes it's boilerplate. Last night I agreed with that reason from him. They had good looks. And tons of open misses.

Again, some of it is rushed/inconsistent footwork, but Buddy Boeheim misses way too many open threes in a variety of ways for a "great" shooter.

And his teammates miss too many layups, but that's something we've almost come to expect recently.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Good post.

The guys who we would really "develop" like Fair, Joseph, etc in the recent past are now gone after one or two years. And I don't think JB accounted for those guys leaving early (minus Battle) b/c it doesn't fit his logic of being ready for the next level.

Fair and Joseph also weren't 2nd options as freshmen. They were 7th and 8th guys off the bench. That should tell you that we don’t have the talent compared to 8-10 years ago.

 

[AirForceOrange]

not going to take the time to read through every thread, and generally agree it's time, but has anyone mentioned the current state of the sport with the one and done, two and done, etc. as being a hugely signficiant factor in the current state and demise of the program?

It would seem to be the biggest contributor to the demise and is compounded by the staffs recent lack of recruiting ability to plug in the gaps to address this new and modern dilemma. Its a non stop revolving wheel, it's always been that way but over a 3-4 year cycle giving players enough time to grow and improve and bring greater team success; but now that cycle is so shortened and has hurt the entire college game, us most acutely.

And based on the lack of NBA success of the guys who left it apparentely hasn't helped them to the degree they probably thought it would had they stayed. We know its certainly hurt us and with an old timer at the helm its evident the cliche' adapt or die rings true in that it's really unfair to expect a wholesale change in a guy after 44 years. So it's going to be up to the higher ups to make some tough decisions at the seasons end.

Tough circumstance all the way around and it all contributes to and encapsulates my own lack and declining interest in the game of college basketball in general going on several years now.

Not sure if I 100% agree. It seems at least half, if not more, of the last 10 NCAA champs were by teams that had 3-4 year program players and not one and done players. Yes, the one and done players go to dook, kensucky, Kansas, etc. However, there is a limited number of those type of players coming out of high school. There is plenty of talent to be found in the "program" type of recruit.

I see that we have very limited inside presence either by posting or driving. So teams guard the perimeter which affects the quality of shots. We all know JB recruits to the zone. He recruits tall, long armed guards and forwards to make the zone more effective. Problem is that type of player does not really equate to a quick driving guard or a stockier center. JB recruits SFs and PFs and has SFs play guard positions and PFs play center. When they go against the traditional team guards who play guard and centers that play center, Syracuse does not match up well. Our lankier PF/C gets pushed around and/or our SFs/Gs get blown by from quicker guards.

 

[Bayside44]

Fair and Joseph also weren't 2nd options as freshman. They were 7th and 8th guys off the bench. That should tell you that we don;t have the talent compared to 8-10 years ago.

Right, agreed. Can say sanctions probably didn't help (Huerter types).

 

[OttoMets]

Right, agreed. Can say sanctions probably didn't help (Huerter types).

Nor did running off birds in hand (B.J. Johnson) for those in the bush (Chinoso's Rochester high school buddy who ended up at Indiana).

Though I'd rather not hijack in that direction again.

But I think player development and willful roster turnover are intertwined and arguably more responsible for the downturn than sanctions were. They desperately needed to retain every live body they initially recruited and, for better or worse, get them fluent in the Boeheim system. Throwing them into the deep end of the pool and then cutting them loose when they struggled and starting over again with a new freshman the next year became a vicious cycle.

 

[cuseguy]

He’s not wrong, we’re not making shots. Lot of good open looks to from bunnies, to midrange to 3’s. Clang.

This was always going to be a concern with this team. Shots don’t fall, they’ll lose. The problem is the team needed to be constructed so that there was a plan B. There isn’t.

 

[PhatOrange]

Sometimes it's boilerplate. Last night I agreed with that reason from him. They had good looks. And tons of open misses.

Again, some of it is rushed/inconsistent footwork, but Buddy Boeheim misses way too many open threes in a variety of ways for a "great" shooter.

And his teammates miss too many layups, but that's something we've almost come to expect recently.

agree here a 100%.

When Buddy is rushed and not having set feet or not squared up its a miss.

With Girard, I've seen Joe miss 10 three's in games before (he's a volume shooter) but even some of his misses have me scratching my head. He doesn't need set feet or to be squared up so when he's missing open looks I'm concerned. Part of me thinks it's the overall defensive pressure they're both seeing. It hasn't been easy for them and with Joe he's still getting acclimated to power 5 D1 guys running at him all game.

The team strength is shooting. They were always going to live and die by it this season and right now they're dying. Overall, every guy, they're a very poor shooting team.

Last 3 games:

Hughes - 14 for 39
Girard - 6 for 28
Boeheim - 9 for 37

Don't know how any team could weather that from their 3 top scoring options. Not pretty.

 

[PhatOrange]

This was always going to be a concern with this team. Shots don’t fall, they’ll lose. The problem is the team needed to be constructed so that there was a plan B. There isn’t.

Keeping in mind we're not a selector school. How can you construct a team when guys leave early that shouldn't have left early? This team at a minimum should have Brissett on it. And we ALL KNEW that Battle was never going to play in the league.

How good would this team be with both of those players?

 

[malpearl31]

not going to take the time to read through every thread, and generally agree it's time, but has anyone mentioned the current state of the sport with the one and done, two and done, etc. as being a hugely signficiant factor in the current state and demise of the program?

It would seem to be the biggest contributor to the demise and is compounded by the staffs recent lack of recruiting ability to plug in the gaps to address this new and modern dilemma. Its a non stop revolving wheel, it's always been that way but over a 3-4 year cycle giving players enough time to grow and improve and bring greater team success; but now that cycle is so shortened and has hurt the entire college game, us most acutely.

And based on the lack of NBA success of the guys who left it apparentely hasn't helped them to the degree they probably thought it would had they stayed. We know its certainly hurt us and with an old timer at the helm its evident the cliche' adapt or die rings true in that it's really unfair to expect a wholesale change in a guy after 44 years. So it's going to be up to the higher ups to make some tough decisions at the seasons end.

Tough circumstance all the way around and it all contributes to and encapsulates my own lack and declining interest in the game of college basketball in general going on several years now.

I agree with you - and in addition to the 1-and-done / 2-and-done players making it more difficult to develop players and build a roster, the changes around players transferring have also had a significant impact on college basketball.

If I go all the way back to when I fell in love with SU Hoops as a kid, there are a ton of players that were not ready to contribute (nor expected to contribute) in their first 2 years that blossomed into great players for us. Starting with Sherman (averaged just 11 mpg as a frosh) and Stevie (12 mpg as a freshman - plus, he can't shoot!), and moving on to Dave Johnson (even as a sophomore, he only averaged 18 mpg and 6 ppg). Conrad McRae barely contributed as a freshman and wasn't much better as a sophomore. Same goes for Lucious Jackson. Lazarus Sims didn't contribute in a meaningful way until his senior year. Griff and Damone Brown are 2 more guys that didn't give us much their freshman years before turning into solid players as upperclassmen/seniors.

How many of those guys would stick around in 2019 and ride the bench for a couple of years before developing into quality players? When it's so easy to transfer out and immediately play somewhere else, why not just do that?

And how many of us, as fans, have the patience to allow kids to develop these days? Or the patience to allow the staff to develop them?

 

[Ghost]

Nor did running off birds in hand (B.J. Johnson) for those in the bush (Chinoso's Rochester high school buddy who ended up at Indiana).

Though I'd rather not hijack in that direction again.

But I think player development and willful roster turnover are intertwined and arguably more responsible for the downturn than sanctions were. They desperately needed to retain every live body they initially recruited and, for better or worse, get them fluent in the Boeheim system. Throwing them into the deep end of the pool and then cutting them loose when they struggled and starting over again with a new freshman the next year became a vicious cycle.

This is a pretty fantastic analysis.

We have entered this strange cycle that is far too dependent on people acclimating quickly to playing out of position, and with the most notable being PG, I can't even begin to entertain the net effect that has on other players. Our player development has been bad, recruiting has been down, and that combo is death.

 

[AZOrange]

agree here a 100%.

When Buddy is rushed and not having set feet or not squared up its a miss.

With Girard, I've seen Joe miss 10 three's in games before (he's a volume shooter) but even some of his misses have me scratching my head. He doesn't need set feet or to be squared up so when he's missing open looks I'm concerned. Part of me thinks it's the overall defensive pressure they're both seeing. It hasn't been easy for them and with Joe he's still getting acclimated to power 5 D1 guys running at him all game.

The team strength is shooting. They were always going to live and die by it this season and right now they're dying. Overall, every guy, they're a very poor shooting team.

Last 3 games:

Hughes - 14 for 39
Girard - 6 for 28
Boeheim - 9 for 37

Don't know how any team could weather that from their 3 top scoring options. Not pretty.

Girard has some pretty weird shot mechanics from what I’ve seen

 

[orangenirvana]

Say something like, "This is on the coaching staff, and as the head coach that means it's on me. It's my job to get these guys ready, and they just weren't."

He doesn't have to say his players suck or call out individuals or talk about how horrible the recruiting has been. Him taking responsibility covers all kinds of ills and removes pressure from a bunch of young overmatched players while not promises of a miraculous turn around.

They didn’t lose because they weren’t ready.

They lost because they lack talent, experience, confidence, and played poorly for good measure.

This team is going to lose as many as 15-20 games this season. You expect JB to come to each postgame PC and spew some phony noble line about how it’s his fault and the players weren’t ready because of him?

 

[Newhouser]

They didn’t lose because they weren’t ready.

They lost because they lack talent, experience, confidence, and played poorly for good measure.

This team is going to lose as many as 15-20 games this season. You expect JB to come to each postgame PC and spew some phony noble line about how it’s his fault and the players weren’t ready because of him?

but the 10 games they win will be attributed to coaching correct?

 

[sufandu]

They didn’t lose because they weren’t ready.

They lost because they lack talent, experience, confidence, and played poorly for good measure.

This team is going to lose as many as 15-20 games this season. You expect JB to come to each postgame PC and spew some phony noble line about how it’s his fault and the players weren’t ready because of him?

Sure. I didn't think that was why they lost. I said that's what JB could say. No coach is going to ever say he recruited a bunch of scrubs that lack talent.

 

[sufandu]

not going to take the time to read through every thread, and generally agree it's time, but has anyone mentioned the current state of the sport with the one and done, two and done, etc. as being a hugely signficiant factor in the current state and demise of the program?

It would seem to be the biggest contributor to the demise and is compounded by the staffs recent lack of recruiting ability to plug in the gaps to address this new and modern dilemma. Its a non stop revolving wheel, it's always been that way but over a 3-4 year cycle giving players enough time to grow and improve and bring greater team success; but now that cycle is so shortened and has hurt the entire college game, us most acutely.

And based on the lack of NBA success of the guys who left it apparentely hasn't helped them to the degree they probably thought it would had they stayed. We know its certainly hurt us and with an old timer at the helm its evident the cliche' adapt or die rings true in that it's really unfair to expect a wholesale change in a guy after 44 years. So it's going to be up to the higher ups to make some tough decisions at the seasons end.

Tough circumstance all the way around and it all contributes to and encapsulates my own lack and declining interest in the game of college basketball in general going on several years now.

I sure have. I mentioned how JB has done a poor job navigating the changes that have come with it. We can't really blame our demise on it because everyone exists under the same conditions.