Jimmy Boeheim - Transfer Portal

[maxxyz]

Jalen gets 22 MPG at URI off the bench this year.
I doubt he would get even 12 MPG if he were coming off the bench here.
He can’t shoot okay but he can get to the rim and score other ways.

We made him a PG out of necessity why couldn’t he be a backup SG and knock Buddy from 35 to 25 MPG.
I really don’t want to have this debate in this thread out of respect for Jimmy Boeheim that kid’s thread doesn’t need this stuff.
I will have this debate in another thread but want to respect Jimmy.

Jalen was recruited to be a PG. He wasn't up to that task and would never play PG, even if Kadary wasn't on the roster. Without the PG skills he was never going to break the rotation on a team that highly values 3 point shooting from its SG & SF positions.

He would be at best the 3rd SG (Buddy 1st, JGIII 2nd) but you could argue that Griffin would play SG before Jalen would.

Even if JB ran a 9 man rotation Jalen would never get off the bench. He just doesn't fit the system as a SG, and is better off at Rhode Island if SG is his only option.

 

[malpearl31]

you make some good points...but saying that Woody has a “larger role”. I just don’t see it. Once Buddy came back, he had a Goodineesque token appearance

He's had a larger role so far - partly due to Covid-19, I'll grant you that. And he has still gotten minutes in both halves in every game since Buddy has returned. But I do think Woody is likely to be the odd man out once Sid comes back.

 

[malpearl31]

I respect them, but I have never strived to be like Creighton or Xavier.

Hate to give props to a rival, but Jay Wright is one of the best coaches out there, no?

Checkout that PT distribution last year.

2019-20 Villanova Wildcats Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Every team is different. What was right for our 2010 team was different than what was right for our 2012 team.

Our bench sucked last year.

And it's not just Jay Wright - plenty of coaches don't go very deep for one reason or another. And then there are plenty of other coaches that do prefer to regularly go deeper.

It's funny - I bet everybody on this board would be thrilled if Jay Wright became the next Syracuse head coach. And he really doesn't go more than 7 or 8 deep (check out the stats so far this year, as well as for the 2 years prior to the link you posted). And Jay Wright was so stingy with distributing minutes to the bench in 2018-19, that a 5-star recruit transferred after the season!!!

Our bench wasn't good last year. I don't know why that's so hard for some people to come to grips with.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Whether or not Buddy plays too much is an idea that can be debated, and one that probably gets debated too much on these boards.

In fact, there’s been a lot of debate recently (as there was last year) about whether or not the guys that weren’t playing last year are any good. The underwhelming performances so far this year for both Jalen and Brycen - combined with the larger roles that Kadary and Woody are playing for SU this year - have a lot of people convinced that JB didn’t go very deep last year because he simply didn’t think that Brycen and HoWash were good enough to help him win. (Purposely not saying Jalen’s name since he was technically out for injury reasons after the 2nd game last year.)

Here’s an interesting nugget for debate: Which coach gave/is giving Brycen a better shot to grow and develop as a player? The coach who played Brycen an average of 11 minutes per game in the first 9 games of the 2019-20 season (with 0 DNPs)? Or the coach who has played Brycen just under 6 minutes per game so far this year (with 3 DNPs)? Debate away!

You're missing the rather obvious point that Jalen had 2 seasons in the program, just like Buddy. Boeheim could have groomed him, and instead elected to give him pretty harsh treatment. Year 2 he got hurt early, and that was that. He gone.

Athletically, he was very good at the top of the zone, regardless of all the other failings of his game. I think that defensively, he was nearly as good as Jason Hart, who also couldn't shoot a lick at the beginning, but eventually became a pretty good player. The only difference is that Boeheim HAD to play Hart, who was his only point guard at the time.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Nobody wants to be the 4th guard?
Unless you have NBA talent you should have 4 quality guards on your roster.

Creighton 66-61 Xavier (Dec 23, 2020) Box Score - ESPN

Box score for the Creighton Bluejays vs. Xavier Musketeers NCAAM game from December 23, 2020 on ESPN. Includes all points, rebounds and steals stats.

www.espn.com

Xavier and Creighton today both top 25 teams had 9 players play at least 10 minutes each.

In case everybody has forgotten, Allen Griffen went from being a starter to being a 4th guard, and then came back to lead a very solid team his senior year with Damone Browne. And now he's an assistant coach at his alma mater. Worked out OK, I'd say.

 

[IthacaMatt]

And it's not just Jay Wright - plenty of coaches don't go very deep for one reason or another. And then there are plenty of other coaches that do prefer to regularly go deeper.

It's funny - I bet everybody on this board would be thrilled if Jay Wright became the next Syracuse head coach. And he really doesn't go more than 7 or 8 deep (check out the stats so far this year, as well as for the 2 years prior to the link you posted). And Jay Wright was so stingy with distributing minutes to the bench in 2018-19, that a 5-star recruit transferred after the season!!!

Our bench wasn't good last year. I don't know why that's so hard for some people to come to grips with.

If you look at most good coaches, they shorten their rotation when the season gets more important. The question is - do you play your other guys enough earlier in the season to (a) see what they can offer off the bench on this year's team, and (b) develop them enough for when you need them next year?

 

[OrangeDW]

In case everybody has forgotten, Allen Griffen went from being a starter to being a 4th guard, and then came back to lead a very solid team his senior year with Damone Browne. And now he's an assistant coach at his alma mater. Worked out OK, I'd say.

20 years ago.

Nowadays kids who wouldn’t have even made the squad in 2000, don’t want to be 4th guard.

 

[lindros2]

Jimmy is an outstanding student, and I'm sure he would want to go to a school with a good MBA program. Many of them are Ivy League schools (Harvard, Columbia, etc) which...

That’s not why you do grad transfer.
i have a one year MS (grad degree) which would be similar to what Jimmy would do to be student-athlete eligible. Basketball takes a ton of time.
And then I have an Ivy MBA I got 10 years later.
also more academically relevant - Greg Paulus (Duke undergrad) - although he came to SU for one year of football.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Buddy played 34 minutes in a 1-12 night last time . He had many such nights last year (as did Girard) when Boeheim never went to the bench and we lost anyway. Three guards transferred away last offseason. Probably not a coincidence. You may think it's moronic, but others don't.

Two decades ago, Igor coined the term "Boeheimed". Every year, Igor would decide that some player rooted to the pine was destined to be the team's next superstar if only unchained from Boeheim's hoops galley and allowed to flourish.

And only Igor could see this massive talent just waiting to be unleashed.

And, inevitably, that player would either get his day in the sun or transfer and we would all discover the truth:

There was a very valid reason why the kid never saw the court. The kids on the court ahead of him were better players.

Eric Williams and Matt "All Big Ten" Gorman are a couple examples of Igor's next superstar players. (Younger posters are saying, "Who?" Exactly.)

The term was picked up by others and took on a life of its own. Other posters have taken up Igor's cause as year-in and year-out there is always some player, or group of players, that should be getting playing time that aren't.

Inevitably, as those players either transfer or actually see the court, those posters are proven wrong.

In fact, there is only one player that I know of that has truly blossomed after leaving SU and that was BJ. And BJ did get playing time, he just wasn't strong enough at the time he was forced to play.

And, with Buddy's arrival, the term "Boeheimed" has added a new meaning: "I am going to play my kid as many minutes as possible despite what it might do to the team". NEPOTISM.

Well, we'll see. Buddy had HW, JC and BG behind him last year. All three have transferred and two are playing. We'll see how they do.

We'll come back to this post at the end of the year and we'll look at their stats and see whether, or not, they've flourished in their new environment and all they needed was to be liberated from JB's "family-centric" view of playing time.

To be continued...

 

[OrangeDW]

Two decades ago, Igor coined the term "Boeheimed". Every year, Igor would decide that some player rooted to the pine was destined to be the team's next superstar if only unchained from Boeheim's hoops galley and allowed to flourish.

And only Igor could see this massive talent just waiting to be unleashed.

And, inevitably, that player would either get his day in the sun or transfer and we would all discover the truth:

There was a very valid reason why the kid never saw the court. The kids on the court ahead of him were better players.

Eric Williams and Matt "All Big Ten" Gorman are a couple examples of Igor's next superstar players. (Younger posters are saying, "Who?" Exactly.)

The term was picked up by others and took on a life of its own. Other posters have taken up Igor's cause as year-in and year-out there is always some player, or group of players, that should be getting playing time that aren't.

Inevitably, as those players either transfer or actually see the court, those posters are proven wrong.

In fact, there is only one player that I know of that has truly blossomed after leaving SU and that was BJ. And BJ did get playing time, he just wasn't strong enough at the time he was forced to play.

And, with Buddy's arrival, the term "Boeheimed" has added a new meaning: "I am going to play my kid as many minutes as possible despite what it might do to the team". NEPOTISM.

Well, we'll see. Buddy had HW, JC and BG behind him last year. All three have transferred and two are playing. We'll see how they do.

We'll come back to this post at the end of the year and we'll look at their stats and see whether, or not, they've flourished in their new environment and all they needed was to be liberated from JB's "family-centric" view of playing time.

To be continued...

Ethan Cole was another Igor favorite.

BJ is the main one recently. Back in the day there were quite a few who transferred and did well elsewhere - Duncan, Hughes, Manning, Sekunda, Lazor,Harris, Lloyd...

In most cases they were stuck behind studs here though.

My favorite is how posters aren’t even pretending to claim these recent benchwarmers are any good. They’re just like “hey, you never know, he might surprise you in the game.” Lol, ridiculous.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Ethan Cole was another Igor favorite.

BJ is the main one recently. Back in the day there were quite a few who transferred and did well elsewhere - Duncan, Hughes, Manning, Sekunda, Lazor,Harris, Lloyd...

In most cases they were stuck behind studs here though.

My favorite is how posters aren’t even pretending to claim these recent benchwarmers are any good. They’re just like “hey, you never know, he might surprise you in the game.” Lol, ridiculous.

And they never really transferred to a school our equal or better...

 

[Alsacs]

Two decades ago, Igor coined the term "Boeheimed". Every year, Igor would decide that some player rooted to the pine was destined to be the team's next superstar if only unchained from Boeheim's hoops galley and allowed to flourish.

And only Igor could see this massive talent just waiting to be unleashed.

And, inevitably, that player would either get his day in the sun or transfer and we would all discover the truth:

There was a very valid reason why the kid never saw the court. The kids on the court ahead of him were better players.

Eric Williams and Matt "All Big Ten" Gorman are a couple examples of Igor's next superstar players. (Younger posters are saying, "Who?" Exactly.)

The term was picked up by others and took on a life of its own. Other posters have taken up Igor's cause as year-in and year-out there is always some player, or group of players, that should be getting playing time that aren't.

Inevitably, as those players either transfer or actually see the court, those posters are proven wrong.

In fact, there is only one player that I know of that has truly blossomed after leaving SU and that was BJ. And BJ did get playing time, he just wasn't strong enough at the time he was forced to play.

And, with Buddy's arrival, the term "Boeheimed" has added a new meaning: "I am going to play my kid as many minutes as possible despite what it might do to the team". NEPOTISM.

Well, we'll see. Buddy had HW, JC and BG behind him last year. All three have transferred and two are playing. We'll see how they do.

We'll come back to this post at the end of the year and we'll look at their stats and see whether, or not, they've flourished in their new environment and all they needed was to be liberated from JB's "family-centric" view of playing time.

To be continued...

A player on the bench doesn’t have to be a superstar.
We should have players on the bench who can actually play.
Instead of the amount of projects or misses we have been having.
Sorry but if a player is 1-12 offensively and not an above average defender then Syracuse as a program should have a player on the bench who can play that game.
Nobody wants superstars all over the bench but how about we get some depth that can play.
Considering the starters we have now aren’t as quality as the starters previously which justified the short bench.

Dion Waiters played 25 MPG in 2012.
That is so laughable with how many minutes are best players have played the last 5 years.

 

[Alsacs]

And they never really transferred to a school our equal or better...

Okay the bench hasn’t been good. I agree but the staff stocked up the bench this year and we still don’t have a 4th guard, and tons of projects on the bench.

Is it too much to have 2 PGs on the roster that aren’t combo guards?
An actual big who is ready to play with Sidibe out so we don’t have to play Marek out of position?

Our roster management has sucked.

 

[OrangeDW]

Okay the bench hasn’t been good. I agree but the staff stocked up the bench this year and we still don’t have a 4th guard, and tons of projects on the bench.

Is it too much to have 2 PGs on the roster that aren’t combo guards?
An actual big who is ready to play with Sidibe out so we don’t have to play Marek out of position?

Our roster management has sucked.

You keep saying this, but never say why it matters.

Who was our 4th guard in 1996? 2003? 2010?

2012 is the only time i can remember us having one who mattered, and even he didn’t make an ounce of difference on that teams W/L record.

 

[Alsacs]

You keep saying this, but never say why it matters.

Who was our 4th guard in 1996? 2003? 2010?

2012 is the only time i can remember us having one who mattered, and even he didn’t make an ounce of difference on that teams W/L record.

My response is pretty obvious if the talent is better 1-3 you don’t need a 4.

When the talent isn’t as good you need more options.

We had all-conference talent every one of those seasons.
Where is it now?

 

[KaiserUEO]

Jimmy will have two more years if he wants them, won't he? He will have his sr year and this gift year from the pandemic. In any case, it is not a knock against Jimmy to want to see him go someplace else. He is a good player. We just have better options and I believe it would be best for all concerned if he went somewhere else. Is there any doubt that he could go to a place like B.C., get a grad degree there, and help the program for two years. Plus, play 4 games against the Orange.

my guess is while BC fits the profile many have laid out, the one thing its missing is...one of JBs friends as HC.

i dont know if Christian will make 2 years for Jimmy.

i would think he would like to play in the big tourney and if hes a 20 minute guy, then he likely will want to go somewhere where that would be guaranteed.

id be looking at schools like nova, baylor, gonzaga, dook...maybe michigan state or washington if they start to resemble a decent team again.

 

[OrangeDW]

My response is pretty obvious if the talent is better 1-3 you don’t need a 4.

When the talent isn’t as good you need more options.

We had 4 last year, but 3 and 4 stunk. *Shrug.

This year? I think we’ve got a good 1-3. Kadary came in, and these other guys ran for the hills. They knew.

 

[Alsacs]

my guess is while BC fits the profile many have laid out, the one thing its missing is...one of JBs friends as HC.

i dont know if Christian will make 2 years for Jimmy.

i would think he would like to play in the big tourney and if hes a 20 minute guy, then he likely will want to go somewhere where that would be guaranteed.

id be looking at schools like nova, baylor, gonzaga, dook...maybe michigan state or washington if they start to resemble a decent team again.

With all the defense of Coach K from the Oats stuff it would be pretty cool if Jimmy went to Duke.

That would be an interesting spot if they got the scholarship.

 

[dasher]

my guess is while BC fits the profile many have laid out, the one thing its missing is...one of JBs friends as HC.

i dont know if Christian will make 2 years for Jimmy.

i would think he would like to play in the big tourney and if hes a 20 minute guy, then he likely will want to go somewhere where that would be guaranteed.

id be looking at schools like nova, baylor, gonzaga, dook...maybe michigan state or washington if they start to resemble a decent team again.

None of those schools would be looking at Jimmy in my opinion. For the same reason we shouldn't. Northwestern might be a fit. Great school, coach JB knows, and a possible tournament team.

 

[Cusefan0307]

My response is pretty obvious if the talent is better 1-3 you don’t need a 4.

When the talent isn’t as good you need more options.

We had all-conference talent every one of those seasons.
Where is it now?

We had a 4th guard. He transferred.

I’m fine with this seasons team. We have enough talent to win 70-75% of our games if the state allows us to play. We are 6-1. Some of this is backup QB syndrome.

I remember when Gmac/Duany were the guards and people wanted more of Edelin and Pace...then it was Josh Wright...then it was Cooney...then it was Frank Howard...then Carey...guys always want to see the bench for whatever reason..

 

[Alsacs]

We had 4 last year, but 3 and 4 stunk. *Shrug.

This year? I think we’ve got a good 1-3. Kadary came in, and these other guys ran for the hills. They knew.

I typed a response but deleted it as I don’t want to go this path in this thread. orange79 “Jimmy Boeheim”

 

[Forza Azzurri]

A player on the bench doesn’t have to be a superstar.
We should have players on the bench who can actually play.
Instead of the amount of projects or misses we have been having.
Sorry but if a player is 1-12 offensively and not an above average defender then Syracuse as a program should have a player on the bench who can play that game.
Nobody wants superstars all over the bench but how about we get some depth that can play.
Considering the starters we have now aren’t as quality as the starters previously which justified the short bench.

Dion Waiters played 25 MPG in 2012.
That is so laughable with how many minutes are best players have played the last 5 years.

That is a different argument though. That is the "We have not recruited well enough" argument rather than the nepotism argument.

it is also an argument that has substantially more validity to it relative to the "nepotism" argument, regardless of whether one believes that there are extenuating circumstances for the diminished recruiting prowess, or not.

In fact, OrangeDW makes a great point. My references were to players over the last two decades but, as DW points out, if you go back to the days of our best recruiting periods, there were any number of players who transferred and flourished. Hell, Hughes and Duncan alone took Rutgers to the NCAA tourney.

But back then, those players transferred because they were sitting behind 3 and 4 year players who were top draft picks and phenomenal players.

Over the last few years, most of the guys on the court and the guys on the bench have been much less talented.

There is no doubt in my mind that neither Buddy nor JgIII sniff the floor on any of teams from '85-91 and from '08 through '13.
Actually, let me rephrase that. All those teams could have used a spot-up three point sniper so there could have been a role but it would not have been the "play 30+ minutes and carry the team on offense" role. It would have been a secondary role as a shooter to spread the D.

 

[Alsacs]

That is a different argument though. That is the "We have not recruited well enough" argument rather than the nepotism argument.

it is also an argument that has substantially more validity to it relative to the "nepotism" argument, regardless of whether one believes that there are extenuating circumstances for the diminished recruiting prowess, or not.

In fact, OrangeDW makes a great point. My references were to players over the last two decades but, as DW points out, if you go back to the days of our best recruiting periods, there were any number of players how transferred and flourished. Hell, Hughes and Duncan alone took Rutgers to the NCAA tourney.

But back then, those players transferred because they were sitting behind 3 and 4 year players who were top draft picks and phenomenal players.

Over the last few year, most of the guys on the court and the guys on the bench have been much less talented.

There is no doubt in my mind that neither Buddy nor JgIII sniff the floor on any of teams from '85-91 and from '08 through '13.

It’s not nepotism from me. I could care less about that.
It’s the fact I want as many quality players as we can get . If we have superstars play them all 40.
We don’t have superstars now so recruit depth so when players are off we have options.

We haven’t done that. Which causes players to play more because we don’t have other options.

That is my point.

 

[malpearl31]

Okay the bench hasn’t been good. I agree but the staff stocked up the bench this year and we still don’t have a 4th guard, and tons of projects on the bench.

Is it too much to have 2 PGs on the roster that aren’t combo guards?
An actual big who is ready to play with Sidibe out so we don’t have to play Marek out of position?

Our roster management has sucked.

Nice to see you come around and agree that last year’s bench just wasn’t very good.

And even though many of us believe that Griffin is the 4th guard, I’ll stipulate for the sake of debate that we only have 3 guards on the roster. What do you propose we do about that, given that it’s 12/24/2020? Can we find a non-combo point guard to join the team mid-season? Someone who is capable of immediately stepping in and playing 20 minutes per night? Or are you just going to post the same complaint over and over... on every thread, regardless of the topic... where does it end for you?

I think all of us would love more talent on the roster. The Isaiah Jackson kid (who chose Kentucky) would probably have been a better big in terms of making an immediate impact, but he decided to go elsewhere. And the Tape kid from Columbia probably would have slotted in at C when Sid went down. But he decided to ride the pine at Duke instead. What are you gonna do? Kids make choices... and we have who we have... you can keep complaining about the roster if you want (please don’t think that I am in any way trying to stifle debate), but to me it’s a little pointless to do so. Unless the point is to simply complain about Jim Boeheim.

 

[Alsacs]

Nice to see you come around and agree that last year’s bench just wasn’t very good.

And even though many of us believe that Griffin is the 4th guard, I’ll stipulate for the sake of debate that we only have 3 guards on the roster. What do you propose we do about that, given that it’s 12/24/2020? Can we find a non-combo point guard to join the team mid-season? Someone who is capable of immediately stepping in and playing 20 minutes per night? Or are you just going to post the same complaint over and over... on every thread, regardless of the topic... where does it end for you?

I think all of us would love more talent on the roster. The Isaiah Jackson kid (who chose Kentucky) would probably have been a better big in terms of making an immediate impact, but he decided to go elsewhere. And the Tape kid from Columbia probably would have slotted in at C when Sid went down. But he decided to ride the pine at Duke instead. What are you gonna do? Kids make choices... and we have who we have... you can keep complaining about the roster if you want (please don’t think that I am in any way trying to stifle debate), but to me it’s a little pointless to do so. Unless the point is to simply complain about Jim Boeheim.

Jim Boeheim himself said Griffin isn’t a guard.
Read SWC brilliant coaches show recap.

If we want to win a NC or be really good to contend for conference titles we need as much talent we can get. If just being above average is our expectations then I will shut up. I am acting like we are still an elite basketball school. Not Providence or Seton Hall.

If we aren’t a top college basketball program anymore then I will shut up and accept what we are.
If post sanctions we are just going to be what we are now then fine.
That is it in a nutshell. We can’t pretend we are better than we actually are.