Joe’s defense

[kcsu]

Jimmy and Buddy are worse defenders. That doesn’t mean Joe is good on defense at all. It’s just how bad our defenders are.

If we were to lose Jesse, Duke may score 150 on us.

We aren’t fixing the D. Start Sy, bump Joe to the 2, buddy to the 3, Jimmy/Cole at the 4 and Jesse at the 5.

Our goal should be to win by a few points, rather than lose by a few points.

Our defense is toast and hanging on by a thread because of Jesse. And, Jesse is always a question mark bc he’s not a fully sound defender yet, but he also has so much defensive pressure put on him bc the other guys are so bad and our coach has certain ways of doing things.

No they arent worse defenders. The stats or whatever you are going by dont tell the story. Just Watch the games. Joe is as bad a defender as we have had at the top of the zone since Jim started playing it.

 

[MikeSU02]

No they arent worse defenders. The stats or whatever you are going by dont tell the story. Just Watch the games. Joe is as bad a defender as we have had at the top of the zone since Jim started playing it.

I do. Joes errors are in your face on TV. Buddys and Jimmy’s aren’t. I fundamentally don’t agree with you and the stats are on my side.

Joe stinks on D. But Buddy and Jimmy are zombies. At least Joe has some athleticism to his body movement.

Agree to disagree.

[Edit: want to be clear, I consider this the worst defensive starting backcourt of all time at SU]

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I do. Joes errors are in your face on TV. Buddys and Jimmy’s aren’t. I fundamentally don’t agree with you and the stats are on my side.

Joe stinks on D. But Buddy and Jimmy are zombies. At least Joe has some athleticism to his body movement.

Agree to disagree.

[Edit: want to be clear, I consider this the worst defensive starting backcourt of all time at SU]

I think what bothers many of us, and perhaps is the difference here, is that Joe seems capable of better defense while the Boeheims are just limited physically too much. Except when they aren’t playing defense because they are whining to the refs.

 

[MikeSU02]

Can I just say something? How the flipping hiccup did I end up being the one defending Joe at all?

I need my coffee. The world is upside down.

Let me put my feelings this way: four of our starting five vary between terrible defenders and outright zombies on the floor.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Can I just say something? How the flipping hiccup did I end up being the one defending Joe at all?

I need my coffee. The world is upside down.

Let me put my feelings this way: four of our starting five vary between terrible defenders and outright zombies on the floor.

Word

 

[MikeSU02]

I think what bothers many of us, and perhaps is the difference here, is that Joe seems capable of better defense while the Boeheims are just limited physically too much. Except when they aren’t playing defense because they are whining to the refs.

Totally fair. Joe stinks on D. Has his hands down a lot. Challenges late. Reaches at times. Limited by size and speed.

Agree with your comment, to be clear. I think that’s a very fair take and one I’m onboard with.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Totally fair. Joe stinks on D. Has his hands down a lot. Challenges late. Reaches at times. Limited by size and speed.

Agree with your comment, to be clear. I think that’s a very fair take and one I’m onboard with.

Yeah, lack of effort always stands out to me wherever I see it. Cole seems to be trying most of the time, diving on the floor and mixing it up for example.

 

[MikeSU02]

Yeah, lack of effort always stands out to me wherever I see it. Cole seems to be trying most of the time, diving on the floor and mixing it up for example.

Cole “looks” the part. Has the Kobe arm band. Tall, athletic build, does the KD cross over on the perimeter.

He seems, out of the non Jesse starting five, the one that should be able to really elevate his D.

But just not sure if that “should” has been lingering around him his whole career for what people expected.

 

[hoopsupstate]

When have you ever seen Buddy rotate back on defense and is the last line of defense? Never because he doesn’t even try to sprint back and his idea of transition defense is to foul at mid court. It’s embarrassing to see him foul instead of hustling back on defense. Yesterday was maddening watching their guard line up his set shot and shoot a moon ball without Joe making any effort to stop him. He hit two threes in the second half. I think I could have got in my car and drove two hours and got to him quicker than Joe did.

 

[kcsu]

I do. Joes errors are in your face on TV. Buddys and Jimmy’s aren’t. I fundamentally don’t agree with you and the stats are on my side.

Joe stinks on D. But Buddy and Jimmy are zombies. At least Joe has some athleticism to his body movement.

Agree to disagree.

[Edit: want to be clear, I consider this the worst defensive starting backcourt of all time at SU]

My major issue is i don't see the guys getting better. It's been years now for Joe and Buddy and Jimmy is an adult. Is it coaching or is it a lack of talent and effort or all three? either way I just don't see the effort the all-out hustle that guys like Devo, mac, and so many others had. Team comes across as a collection of coddled kids that don't know how to dig deep when needed. Symir seems to bring energy to the team and Cole hustles same with Jesse. It's actually the three sons that don't. Part of that is that they are Offensive minded and geared players. Part of it is a lack of talent. and part of it is they don't get their arses kicked by their dad

 

[MikeSU02]

My major issue is i don't see the guys getting better. It's been years now for Joe and Buddy and Jimmy is an adult. Is it coaching or is it a lack of talent and effort or all three? either way I just don't see the effort the all-out hustle that guys like Devo, mac, and so many others had. Team comes across as a collection of coddled kids that don't know how to dig deep when needed. Symir seems to bring energy to the team and Cole hustles same with Jesse. It's actually the three sons that don't. Part of that is that they are Offensive minded and geared players. Part of it is a lack of talent. and part of it is they don't get their arses kicked by their dad

Totally agree. I prob came off to harsh in my initial response, so my apology.

I’m with you. I mean it when I say I think if Jesse goes down, Duke can basically have a layup line against us.

The defense is a joke. Honestly, it’s awful to watch.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

My major issue is i don't see the guys getting better. It's been years now for Joe and Buddy and Jimmy is an adult. Is it coaching or is it a lack of talent and effort or all three? either way I just don't see the effort the all-out hustle that guys like Devo, mac, and so many others had. Team comes across as a collection of coddled kids that don't know how to dig deep when needed. Symir seems to bring energy to the team and Cole hustles same with Jesse. It's actually the three sons that don't. Part of that is that they are Offensive minded and geared players. Part of it is a lack of talent. and part of it is they don't get their arses kicked by their dad

Maybe the off-season workouts with Devo weren’t a great idea.

 

[kcsu]

Maybe the off-season workouts with Devo weren’t a great idea.

Or imagine how bad Buddy would be without them

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Or imagine how bad Buddy would be without them

I was more referencing the defensive side of the ball

 

[two3zone]

Joe could go 0 for his next 500
Turn the ball over 20 times a game
Sit on the floor on D
And he’s starting every game through 2023 barring injury or ineligibility

2024

 

[two3zone]

I think what bothers many of us, and perhaps is the difference here, is that Joe seems capable of better defense while the Boeheims are just limited physically too much. Except when they aren’t playing defense because they are whining to the refs.

Family trait.

 

[CardiacCuse]

start benny and symir as the guards on top of the zone and watch the defense get good real fast.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Defense at the top of the zone has been a joke.
Can't stop the entry pass...or penetration..or closeout shooters
due to lack of size(Joe) and speed(Buddy).

benny has the fastest defensive footwork aside from symir on the team...i'd like to see how benny and sy would do together at the top of the zone on defense

 

[Jzsshuttles]

My major issue is i don't see the guys getting better. It's been years now for Joe and Buddy and Jimmy is an adult. Is it coaching or is it a lack of talent and effort or all three? either way I just don't see the effort the all-out hustle that guys like Devo, mac, and so many others had. Team comes across as a collection of coddled kids that don't know how to dig deep when needed. Symir seems to bring energy to the team and Cole hustles same with Jesse. It's actually the three sons that don't. Part of that is that they are Offensive minded and geared players. Part of it is a lack of talent. and part of it is they don't get their arses kicked by their dad

Entitlement

 

[jgeorge322]

I’m not sure. I skipped around a bit and this is 5 instances of Joe literally playing zero defense at all and giving up a three. None of this includes him getting burned by or not moving around being active. This is unacceptable and one of the worst defensive efforts I’ve ever seen by an individual player. I don’t know how much more proof or evidence I can post to prove it. Just check out those 5 plays, I mapped it out so it’s easy to find.


0:58
4:40
6:00
7:24
7:36

ok, only two of those are "bad", 4:40 and 6.

 

[two3zone]

ok, only two of those are "bad", 4:40 and 6.

You ever play basketball? I’ve never ever ever seen a guy who can make a play put both arms up and run at a guy without barely jumping.

 

[jgeorge322]

You ever play basketball? I’ve never ever ever seen a guy who can make a play put both arms up and run at a guy without barely jumping.

Sounds like something JB would say to a reporter. Anyways, you want him to jump and get blown by? Dude is limited on defense but buddy has cinderblocks for feet and cole seems slow and doesnt know where he is. Also, gtfoh with calling out the play at the 58 second mark.

 

[two3zone]

Sounds like something JB would say to a reporter. Anyways, you want him to jump and get blown by? Dude is limited on defense but buddy has cinderblocks for feet and cole seems slow and doesnt know where he is. Also, gtfoh with calling out the play at the 58 second mark.

No, I want him to jump and defend a shot that burned him all game. Do we not defend shots anymore and just put arms up? Get blown by, we play zone, there are two other guys behind him to pick up the guy with the ball.

What’s the point of playing zone if our guards don’t jump and defend a three point shot? This is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard.

 

[AZOrange]

We are getting destroyed by fast break points this year. We don’t get many for the reason you stated and we give up a bunch.

There was one where they got a break with Buddy back. Buddy had two steps and the angle at half court. By the three point line they were even and Buddy was leveraged and by the hoop Buddy was two steps behind. I don’t think I have ever seen that before.

I was trying to think today if I have ever seen him block a shot.

 

[jgeorge322]

No, I want him to jump and defend a shot that burned him all game. Do we not defend shots anymore and just put arms up? Get blown by, we play zone, there are two other guys behind him to pick up the guy with the ball.

What’s the point of playing zone if our guards don’t jump and defend a three point shot? This is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard.

Really? We just jump indiscriminately because we play zone. He challenged the shot at the 58 second mark. Teams will get shots from time to time. We even do. You are on tilt but I guess we all are.