Joe Girard is returning

[orangepassion]

Looks like this will be an entry in the he said, she said hall of fame.

Everyone will have to choose who they believe.

Unless JB changes his story, I'm in the camp that thinks he would never specifically say that to Kadary.

Truthfully, it doesn’t even matter what Boeheim said to him after the season. What matters was his public words and actions towards him during the season. After the way the minutes were doled out this year, I’d be hesitant to return if there was any ambiguity.

 

[orange79]

How old is Kadary ? Don't give me tendinitis in the knee. He is not a 20 year NBA veteran playing his last year or two.

Well, just as you have many times in the past, you have just demonstrated your total lack of any medical knowledge.

Thanks for reminding us.

 

[All4SU]

Just in time for fans to be back in the dome. Be interesting to see crowd reaction when he is first introduced. 90 percent of the fanbase thought Kadary should have been starting now that he is gone wouldn't want to be Joe next season. He should have taken himself out of the lineup and let Kadary start. JB is most to blame, followed by the assistant coaches, but Joe deserves blame too.

Why on earth would SU fans be anything but supportive of JG? I hope he has a great year next year in Orange!

 

[rrlbees]

Just in time for fans to be back in the dome. Be interesting to see crowd reaction when he is first introduced. 90 percent of the fanbase thought Kadary should have been starting now that he is gone wouldn't want to be Joe next season. He should have taken himself out of the lineup and let Kadary start. JB is most to blame, followed by the assistant coaches, but Joe deserves blame too.

100% of the fans I know, which is 100’s and 99% of the fans that will be in the dome will support Joe and every other player. Just like they always do. I’m sure there will be a small handful like we have seen that won’t.

 

[IthacaMatt]

KR passed the eye test, but I trust that his rotations were off. If ST and whoever else they add can get the rotations hammered out they will get minutes. Benny will take care of a lot of offensive load and "spacing" shouldn't be a problem

He was 4th in the ACC in steals, playing half a game. He blocked 14 shots last year.
I don't think there were any problems with his defense.

 

[MSOrange]

I hope Joe scores 35 a game next year

He might have to. I just worry about the number of shots it will take to get there.

 

[richard224]

He was 4th in the ACC in steals, playing half a game. He blocked 14 shots last year.
I don't think there were any problems with his defense.

those stats speak to how bad his rotations must have been to not play more. obviously he was far and above better than joe by the eye test but there must have been something there. defense wasnt the problem against houston anyway. i just want the least drama possible to help mesh on top of bennys back

 

[IthacaMatt]

those stats speak to how bad his rotations must have been to not play more. obviously he was far and above better than joe by the eye test but there must have been something there. defense wasnt the problem against houston anyway. i just want the least drama possible to help mesh on top of bennys back

Sorry, but that's a stupid comment.

The zone is DESIGNED to get steals. That's the whole point of the rotations.
But you claim that getting steals is evidence that he isn't playing good defense. (!)

How do you feel about the inability of certain guys who are NOT named Kadary Richmond to get out on shooters? I think that's a far bigger problem that a guy who gets "too many" steals.

 

[721Comstock]

Sorry, but that's a stupid comment.

The zone is DESIGNED to get steals. That's the whole point of the rotations.
But you claim that getting steals is evidence that he isn't playing good defense. (!)

How do you feel about the inability of certain guys who are NOT named Kadary Richmond to get out on shooters? I think that's a far bigger problem that a guy who gets "too many" steals.

In a fraction of the minutes that Buddy & Joe played, Kadary had FOURTEEN BLOCKS.

Buddy - 1.
Joe - 2.

When he closed out on a dude, it wasn’t to wave as a made 3 went past.

 

[richard224]

Sorry, but that's a stupid comment.

The zone is DESIGNED to get steals. That's the whole point of the rotations.
But you claim that getting steals is evidence that he isn't playing good defense. (!)

How do you feel about the inability of certain guys who are NOT named Kadary Richmond to get out on shooters? I think that's a far bigger problem that a guy who gets "too many" steals.

obviously getting steals is a good thing that defenses tend to strive for, im saying if you see a guy outta position all the time but gets some steals here and there it must leave you in a quandary. you dont think they weighed steals vs team defense? again defense was not the problem against houston

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Why on earth would SU fans be anything but supportive of JG? I hope he has a great year next year in Orange!

No matter how good a season we have everyone is going to be really annoyed we don't have a floor general.

Joe had good moments in the tournament but they were late in the half when he came back in off the bench. He struggled each half for the first 8 mins when we waited for Kadary.

If JB reverses their roles we might still be playing.

It is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen a coach pull and it will follow Joe and JB the rest of their time here.

That said we'll still have a decent .500 ACC bubble team despite Joe and the 2 Boeheims all not being great defensively and playing close to 40 per night and might make an NCAA Tournament run and that is all JB cares about not having the program at the level it was in the 80s or 10 years ago when we got it together 5 years after our title and recruited long NBA level players for our zone.

I don't think Girard can be effective without aggressively taking a few bad shots per game either. He's also probably going to have to take all the heat that would normally go to Buddy and Jimmy Jr.

 

[All4SU]

No matter how good a season we have everyone is going to be really annoyed we don't have a floor general.

Joe had good moments in the tournament but they were late in the half when he came back in off the bench. He struggled each half for the first 8 mins when we waited for Kadary.

If JB reverses their roles we might still be playing.

It is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen a coach pull and it will follow Joe and JB the rest of their time here.

That said we'll still have a decent .500 ACC bubble team despite Joe and the 2 Boeheims all not being great defensively and playing close to 40 per night and might make an NCAA Tournament run and that is all JB cares about not having the program at the level it was in the 80s or 10 years ago when we got it together 5 years after our title and recruited long NBA level players for our zone.

I don't think Girard can be effective without aggressively taking a few bad shots per game either. He's also probably going to have to take all the heat that would normally go to Buddy and Jimmy Jr.

The reality is, this is your opinion. Your argument is based on the information you have. I would argue that JB has far more information than you. We don’t know what considerations were in play. If JB started KR mid season would he have been placated? Maybe. Maybe not. Perhaps JB felt from the beginning that KR was a goner for some reason we don’t know. In that case, why punish JG? Maybe he was trying to motivate KR who was dogging in practice. Again we don’t know. Would KR have been happy with starting, but playing the same amount of minutes - 21 average and finishing many games? If not, how many minutes would make him happy? 25? 30? 35? 40? Obviously making one player happy is not the mission, winning games is.
Again, you don’t have a complete picture.

 

[djcon57]

. Perhaps JB felt from the beginning that KR was a goner for some reason we don’t know. In that case, why punish JG?

I actually think there may be merit to this one.

which of course flies in the face of the “Jim plays to win no matter what“ talk

 

[tptcuse]

I wish we could boo you

LOLOL!

 

[All4SU]

I actually think there may be merit to this one.

which of course flies in the face of the “Jim plays to win no matter what“ talk

Not necessarily. It could mean you don’t want to break the spirit of the guy who may be a starter again next year. Try to win with starting JG and bringing KR where you want.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The reality is, this is your opinion. Your argument is based on the information you have. I would argue that JB has far more information than you. We don’t know what considerations were in play. If JB started KR mid season would he have been placate? Maybe. Maybe not. Perhaps JB felt from the beginning that KR was a goner for some reason we don’t know. In that case, why punish JG? Maybe he was trying to motivate KR who was dogging in practice. Again we don’t know. Would KR have been happy with starting, but playing the same amount of minutes - 21 average and finishing many games? If not, how many minutes would make him happy? 25? 30? 35? 40? Obviously making one player happy is not the mission, winning games is.
Again, you don’t have a complete picture.

That’s actually somewhat believeable.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

The reality is, this is your opinion. Your argument is based on the information you have. I would argue that JB has far more information than you. We don’t know what considerations were in play. If JB started KR mid season would he have been placate? Maybe. Maybe not. Perhaps JB felt from the beginning that KR was a goner for some reason we don’t know. In that case, why punish JG? Maybe he was trying to motivate KR who was dogging in practice. Again we don’t know. Would KR have been happy with starting, but playing the same amount of minutes - 21 average and finishing many games? If not, how many minutes would make him happy? 25? 30? 35? 40? Obviously making one player happy is not the mission, winning games is.
Again, you don’t have a complete picture.

Joe hasn't come close to meeting expectations for a starting PG for a program like ours in the ACC.

It doesnt mean he is awful.

It was crystal clear we had someone who did. And that Girard would be far better suited to guard #3 due to his weak handle and shot selection along with size/athleticism limitations.

He's also the type of player that might not be better as a 4th/5th year guy than last year as a freshman. Wrong guy to bend over backwards to accomodate. Imagine JB being hellbent on making it work for Kaleb Joseph refusing to move G to point guard and him starting no matter what. Not saying he is there but that is the JG3 situation in a nutshell with an NBA PG parked on the bench for the first 8 minutes each half.

 

[Alsacs]

Joe hasn't come close to meeting expectations for a starting PG for a program like ours in the ACC.

It doesnt mean he is awful.

It was crystal clear we had someone who did. And that Girard would be far better suited to guard #3 due to his weak handle and shot selection along with size/athleticism limitations.

He's also the type of player that might not be better as a 4th/5th year guy than last year as a freshman. Wrong guy to bend over backwards to accomodate. Imagine JB being hellbent on making it work for Kaleb Joseph refusing to move G to point guard and him starting no matter what. Not saying he is there but that is the JG3 situation in a nutshell with an NBA PG parked on the bench for the first 8 minutes each half.

This needs to be said over and over and over and over.

Then over again.

 

[realorange]

You are clueless if you don't think the fanbase is going to blame Joe.

Blame Joe for what?? The last time I looked, Joe wasn't in charge of the team.

 

[Red Holzman]

I don't think Girard can be effective without aggressively taking a few bad shots per game either. He's also probably going to have to take all the heat that would normally go to Buddy and Jimmy Jr.

Don't know Joe and could be wrong, but think he can take the heat if it comes to that.
I admire Joe's moxie and confidence -appears unshakeable.

 

[realorange]

And who has more to lose?
Kadary has already decided to leave. He has no reason to lie about it.
The author interviewed Kadary. I'm sure he wrote what Kadary told him.

But if Boeheim lets it be known that next year's starters (or any starters, for that matter ...) are pre-determined, then he's the one who looks bad. Not Kadary, not the reporter.

I don't believe JB has ever told anyone they were going to start next year.

Any incoming recruit, regardless of how good, would be told 'if you can show in practice you are ready to start, then you may.'

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Don't know Joe and could be wrong, but think he can take the heat if it comes to that.
I admire Joe's moxie and confidence -appears unshakeable.

That is fine.

But the Boeheim kids get a pass from the media and the fans. Not sure its easy to be in his spot where you won't.

As I said earlier everyone had defined roles. Joe was well suited to 3rd guard. When Buddy graduated he'd have started at the 2 his last year. Not sure where he goes from here won't be shocked if someone not as good as Kadary is the starting PG at some point next season.

 

[Red Holzman]

But the Boeheim kids get a pass from the media and the fans. Not sure its easy to be in his spot where you won't.

As I said earlier everyone had defined roles. Joe was well suited to 3rd guard. When Buddy graduated he'd have started at the 2 his last year. Not sure where he goes from here won't be shocked if someone not as good as Kadary is the starting PG at some point next season.

Suspect all 3 are aware they are targets of potential Fan Fallout, and prep with chips on shoulders.
Agree that Joe would be better as a 20" 3rd guard vs as a 35"+ starting PG.

Would be great if the whole crazy puzzle/new pieces come together, and JB has one of his most memorable and enjoyable seasons coaching his 2 sons on a team that far exceeds expectations.
Anything is possible -would be a great story and fun season

 

[Trueblue25]

You’d think we’d give Joe more slack after he bailed our program’s sorry ace out after Carey ended up flopping.

Joe gave us a respectable freshman year and earned his role. But hey, we always forget when the shiny new toy comes around.

I remember people were calling for Dungey’s head in 2018 because we had a cool new toy that showed flashes of brilliance

 

[OrangeXtreme]

You’d think we’d give Joe more slack after he bailed our program’s sorry ace out after Carey ended up flopping.

Joe gave us a respectable freshman year and earned his role. But hey, we always forget when the shiny new toy comes around.

I remember people were calling for Dungey’s head in 2018 because we had a cool new toy that showed flashes of brilliance

People wanted Officer Mahoney to start over Dungey.

People wanted Tommy to start over Dungey.

People wanted Rex to start over Tommy.

People wanted ANYONE to start over Rex.

The circle of life.