Jonny Flynn released by Detroit*

[OttoMets]

Flynn could be our demeanor coach. He could teach BT to smile and improve CJ's swagger.

And he could teach the other guys to (ah, I'd better stop right there)

 

[Knicks411]

There is zero doubt in my mind that playing zone defense allows guys to relax and they can focus almost all of their energy on offense. How many guys have we had that were dynamite zone defenders? About 6 stick out in my mind. It also hides deficiencies of certain players. Hakim Warrick was so thin, you wonder how well he could have handled playing minutes in a m2m system as a sophmore? He would have been bullied as a Junior as well. Couple this with a free flowing offense, designed to get out and run by a guy who is an absolute offensive genius... and I think some of our guys end up looking better than they really are.

All of these guys get to the NBA and struggle mightily on defense (Hart and Thomas aside). I don't think its coincidence.

I think there is something to this, and I was going to say something like it but i didn't. Not only does it hurt their defense, but it also allows them to focus even more energy on their offense, like you said, but also play even more minutes, which allows them to put up higher raw numbers (plus we generally play at an above average pace) which is the kind of thing that can get you noticed by scouts.

Just as a for instance, in Flynn's last season here here he averaged 17.4 points and 6.7 assists. Ty Lawson in the same year averaged 16.6 points and 6.6 assists. Pretty even, right? But Flynn averaged 37 minutes per game and Lawson a shade under 30. Bump Flynn down to 30 minutes a game and he averages 14,1 points and 5.4 assists, which are still fine numbers, but aren't quite as eye catching. (On the other hand, at 37 minutes per game Lawson would have averaged 21 and 8. Assuming he could have kept up the pace, which at the UNC pace he probably couldn't have, which is part of the reason JB plays zone, I think).

y initial impression is that JB's program has done a very good job of recruiting and developing frontcourt players (Rony, Etan, Hakim, etc.

Yeah and even more recently, Ricky and AO.

 

[OttoMets]

Why was Hart the only guy that could play defense in the NBA

Low pick --> no sense of entitlement.

Good person, hard worker.

And probably a host of other reasons that I don't know anything about. But those played a factor.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

I think there is something to this, and I was going to say something like it but i didn't. Not only does it hurt their defense, but it also allows them to focus even more energy on their offense, like you said, but also play even more minutes, which allows them to put up higher raw numbers (plus we generally play at an above average pace) which is the kind of thing that can get you noticed by scouts.

Just as a for instance, in Flynn's last season here here he averaged 17.4 points and 6.7 assists. Ty Lawson in the same year averaged 16.6 points and 6.6 assists. Pretty even, right? But Flynn averaged 37 minutes per game and Lawson a shade under 30. Bump Flynn down to 30 minutes a game and he averages 14,1 points and 5.4 assists, which are still fine numbers, but aren't quite as eye catching. (On the other hand, at 37 minutes per game Lawson would have averaged 21 and 8. Assuming he could have kept up the pace, which at the UNC pace he probably couldn't have, which is part of the reason JB plays zone, I think).



Yeah and even more recently, Ricky and AO.

Great post. And Ty Lawson was also defending 90 feet and pestering the other teams PG's most of the game. So he was spending energy on both ends. Jonny Flynn was standing in a 3 foot circle radius, occasionally putting his hands up.

 

[Gabjon]

Why was Hart the only guy that could play defense in the NBA

As it relates to guards we haven't had that many drafted in the Jim Boeheim era. The list is:

Pearl Washington (1st round bust 13th overall)
Sherman Douglas (2nd rounder; 11 year NBA career)
Edit: Lawrence Moten (2nd rounder;3 year NBA career) (2 yrs at guard 2 yrs at SF)
Jason Hart (2nd rounder; 9 year NBA career)
Jonny Flynn (1st round bust as of now 6th overall)
Andy Rautins (2nd rounder; tbd)
Dion Waiters (1st round 4th overall tbd)

I think that is inline with the standard bell curve for any university.

 

[DoctorBombay]

As it relates to guards we haven't had that many drafted in the Jim Boeheim era. The list is:

Pearl Washington (1st round bust 13th overall)
Sherman Douglas (2nd rounder; 11 year NBA career)
Jason Hart (2nd rounder; 9 year NBA career)
Jonny Flynn (1st round bust as of now 6th overall)
Andy Rautins (2nd rounder; tbd)
Dion Waiters (1st round 4th overall tbd)

I think that is inline with the standard bell curve for any university.

Agreed.
For the longest time, and despite all the great players he's had, Coach K was seen as having the "Duke curse".
Christian Laettner was probably viewed as the biggest Duke "underachiever" based on his college career, but it's never diminished the greatness of Coach K.

 

[Gabjon]

Agreed.
For the longest time, and despite all the great players he's had, Coach K was seen as having the "Duke curse".
Christian Laettner was probably viewed as the biggest Duke "underachiever" based on his college career, but it's never diminished the greatness of Coach K.

Its all that rough M2M they play down there it does prepare them for the league!

 

[tbonezone]

i can still remember reading the summer camp buzz(big east briefs baby!) about jason hart and eton (derrick then) thomas being the among best defenders at camp.also throw in lasean howard. they came here with excellent D skills and reputations. surely they honed their crafts on here the hill but let's not pretend we taught them good D.

 

[Gabjon]

i can still remember reading the summer camp buzz(big east briefs baby!) about jason hart and eton (derrick then) thomas being the among best defenders at camp.also throw in lasean howard. they came here with excellent D skills and reputations. surely they honed their crafts on here the hill but let's not pretend we taught them good D.

That is true of all basketball skills. We didn't make Melo or Gmac offensively either. You can't teach the ability to stay in front of someone. You can help them get better but they either have it or they don't.

 

[AZOrange]

As it relates to guards we haven't had that many drafted in the Jim Boeheim era. The list is:

Pearl Washington (1st round bust 13th overall)
Sherman Douglas (2nd rounder; 11 year NBA career)
Jason Hart (2nd rounder; 9 year NBA career)
Jonny Flynn (1st round bust as of now 6th overall)
Andy Rautins (2nd rounder; tbd)
Dion Waiters (1st round 4th overall tbd)

I think that is inline with the standard bell curve for any university.

Pretty sure your list is missing someone...

 

[AZOrange]

Great post. And Ty Lawson was also defending 90 feet and pestering the other teams PG's most of the game. So he was spending energy on both ends. Jonny Flynn was standing in a 3 foot circle radius, occasionally putting his hands up.

I once had a vigorous debate with someone on here about pro potential between Ty and Flynn. Even then I went with Ty

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

what could have been. wish he stayed 4 years. I hate the NBA sometimes and the stupid decisions these kids make.

He would have been found out and would have been lucky to be drafted in the 2nd round. He was always too little/slight to last long in the Assoc. Now he's had hia money working for him for two extra years. Good for him. If he wants to, he can come back to school and get his degree.

Sent from my Vortex using Tapatalk 2

 

[Gabjon]

Pretty sure your list is missing someone...

who?

 

[AZOrange]

who?

Leading scorer in su history?

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

nm

and now, wherever he is, Mike Rosario can finally sleep with his nightlight off:

 

[Gabjon]

Leading scorer in su history?

I considered him a forward since he played the 3 most of his SU career

 

[Knicks411]

I once had a vigorous debate with someone on here about pro potential between Ty and Flynn. Even then I went with Ty

Yeah I was on the side of Ty as well. Remember that debate.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

It was fun, back then...the board all laughing at the James Harden pick and so sure Jonny would light the league on fire. *sigh*

 

[HOFCeluck]

As it relates to guards we haven't had that many drafted in the Jim Boeheim era. The list is:

Pearl Washington (1st round bust 13th overall)
Sherman Douglas (2nd rounder; 11 year NBA career)
Edit: Lawrence Moten (2nd rounder;3 year NBA career) (2 yrs at guard 2 yrs at SF)
Jason Hart (2nd rounder; 9 year NBA career)
Jonny Flynn (1st round bust as of now 6th overall)
Andy Rautins (2nd rounder; tbd)
Dion Waiters (1st round 4th overall tbd)

I think that is inline with the standard bell curve for any university.

I wasn't talking about guards only.

 

[HOFCeluck]

It was fun, back then...the board all laughing at the James Harden pick and so sure Jonny would light the league on fire. *sigh*

The James Harden pick reaction highlights how embarrassingly oblivious to basketball outside of SU some can be.

 

[AZOrange]

The James Harden pick reaction highlights how embarrassingly oblivious to basketball outside of SU some can be.

Even here there were a lot of questions re harden athleticism in the nba

 

[AlaskaSU]

Harden was a non-factor when we played him at the big dance.

 

[Gabjon]

Harden was a non-factor when we played him at the big dance.

Couldn't deal with the zone his teammates weren't good enough and he was swarmed

 

[HOFCeluck]

Harden was a non-factor when we played him at the big dance.

Yes...so you judged him off one game when we played Arizona State.

Like I said...oblivious.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Yes...so you judged him off one game when we played Arizona State.

Like I said...oblivious.

Its like when everyone here says they hate the NBA and can't watch it, but proceed to post regarding Lebron's every move during each and every playoff game

"I can't stand the sport and would never watch it...but let me tell you why Lebron sucks!"