Just being honest about Hopkins.. waxing poetic

[Orijinal]

Again ...Cuse would land many of these top prospects if the weather was better in Syracuse. There would be no question. Do I like this fact? Absolutely not. Is it a fact? I say yes. I base my reasoning on this:
#1 Cuse plays in front of the largest crowds in the country
#2 Boeheim is a Hall of Fame coach...second most wins in history next to coach K, consistent appearances in the tourney, a final 4 run not long ago, Sweet 16 last year
#3: One of the most amazing practice facilities in the country
#4: Players get drafted ...and drafted high. Maybe most don't stay in the league, but they have a good shot at an NBA roster via Syracuse
#5: National exposure week in, week out, and play in a league that faces Duke and North Carolina every year

I mean honestly ...Syracuse is doing everything right. Weather trumps all for top prospects. There's really no reason why we consistently big time recruits to Duke, NC, Kansas, Kentucky and others. Maybe we would take some losses here and there for sure. There are really great things about these other programs. But to always lose to them? Something else is going on

 

[donniesyracuse]

We have to stop filaciating Hopkins

What does this word mean?

 

[realorange]

I don't think JB's strength is in his personal relationship with players, at least not when said players were in their youth, being recruited, as players, etc. It appears that JB builds a better relationship with many of his guys well after they have played here.

I still recall what Kenny Anderson's mom was quoted saying about JB back in the day: "He was too cold," she says. "His town's too cold, and he's cold." That still stings to this day.

And the brown paper bag that Bobby Cremins gave her was much warmer.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

What does this word mean?

If you are seriously asking, I assume he is trying to write "fellating"...

 

[RF2044]

I mean honestly ...Syracuse is doing everything right. Weather trumps all for top prospects. There's really no reason why we consistently big time recruits to Duke, NC, Kansas, Kentucky and others. Maybe we would take some losses here and there for sure. There are really great things about these other programs. But to always lose to them? Something else is going on

We used to play the game. Remember Rob Johnson, and how we got hammered in the early 90s by the NCAA, to be made an example of?

After that, we stopped chasing elite talent. By the mid-90s, we were struggling to recruit quality players, and the program slipped a bit, only to be reenergized when we hired an AC [Troy Weaver] who was a stud talent evaluator / recruiter. We also got lucky with players like Carmelo and Hakim -- the former of whom blew up into an elite blue chipper after committing, and Hakim who was barely in the top 100 and became an all american.

Nowadays, Boeheim recruits for a system above all. It is almost like they don't even try to go head-to-head with the top programs you mentioned anymore. Sure, every once in awhile we'll get in on guys that we identify early, like Anthony Davis or Quade Green, but more often than not we'll drop out of contention once the big dogs start sniffing around. And I'm sure that a big part of it was correlated with the $$$ nonsense that the FBI is now investigating, which we don't get involved with anymore.

I just don't think that Boeheim is willing to go after those types of elite blue chippers anymore. He seems to prefer high quality 4-stars who are good system fits and have the athletic profile that the NBA desires [like CJ Fair, Grant, Waiters, Lydon, Malachi, etc.]. But IMO, the "profile" we covet has changed -- there was a time when we used to go after the Derrick Coleman / Billy Owens / John Wallace / Kenny Andersons every year. Those times are long gone.

 

[OrangeDW]

What does this word mean?

Filaciating...

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Bye Filacia.

 

[Col. Bleep]

. He seems to prefer high quality 4-stars who are good system fits and have the athletic profile that the NBA desires [like CJ Fair, Grant, Waiters, Lydon, Malachi, etc.]. But IMO, the "profile" we covet has changed -- there was a time when we used to go after the Derrick Coleman / Billy Owens / John Wallace / Kenny Andersons every year. Those times are long gone.

I'd take a team of CJ Fair type players any time.

The Orange have pursued top recruits...plenty more teams in the hunt now.

The issue with Stewart seems to be that Mike Hopkins forged a relationship with him.
It may have worked to the Orange advantage if he was still an assistant.
But now he's using his talents to build up Washington.
Good for him.
Bad for us.
Time to adapt... without chicanery.

 

[Bayside44]

I don't think JB's strength is in his personal relationship with players, at least not when said players were in their youth, being recruited, as players, etc. It appears that JB builds a better relationship with many of his guys well after they have played here.

I still recall what Kenny Anderson's mom was quoted saying about JB back in the day: "He was too cold," she says. "His town's too cold, and he's cold." That still stings to this day.

Kenny Anderson's mom had a creeper act as Kenny's agent so do with that what you will.

 

[moqui]

I figured the this would turn into an indictment of this team. Its not. I guess I should have anticipated that the Pollyannas would flock

the dread pollyanna, chicken little's mortal enemy.

 

[orangecuse]

We used to play the game. Remember Rob Johnson, and how we got hammered in the early 90s by the NCAA, to be made an example of?

After that, we stopped chasing elite talent. By the mid-90s, we were struggling to recruit quality players, and the program slipped a bit, only to be reenergized when we hired an AC [Troy Weaver] who was a stud talent evaluator / recruiter. We also got lucky with players like Carmelo and Hakim -- the former of whom blew up into an elite blue chipper after committing, and Hakim who was barely in the top 100 and became an all american.

Nowadays, Boeheim recruits for a system above all. It is almost like they don't even try to go head-to-head with the top programs you mentioned anymore. Sure, every once in awhile we'll get in on guys that we identify early, like Anthony Davis or Quade Green, but more often than not we'll drop out of contention once the big dogs start sniffing around. And I'm sure that a big part of it was correlated with the $$$ nonsense that the FBI is now investigating, which we don't get involved with anymore.

I just don't think that Boeheim is willing to go after those types of elite blue chippers anymore. He seems to prefer high quality 4-stars who are good system fits and have the athletic profile that the NBA desires [like CJ Fair, Grant, Waiters, Lydon, Malachi, etc.]. But IMO, the "profile" we covet has changed -- there was a time when we used to go after the Derrick Coleman / Billy Owens / John Wallace / Kenny Andersons every year. Those times are long gone.

No doubt JB recruits for his system above all, just as you allude. And, his success speaks for itself. Maybe JB doesn't go after these elite guys against these top programs as you've suggested, though who knows for certain. I think what's somewhat, let's say frustrating, is that Syracuse is 5th in all time D1 wins (when you include the bogus 101 vacated W's) and only behind UK, KU, UNC & Duke respectively.

With that being the case, and how SU fans hold the program is such deservedly high regard, I think a lot of the general fan base (not just us fanatics here) feel we should be able to not only compete for these elite blue chippers, but also land our fair share as well, at least from time to time. I don't think that that expectation is unreasonable.

If the same were true on the football side in regards to our number of overall wins & historic ranking, I don't think it would be unexpected/unreasonable in feeling we should be able to land some 5* elite blue chippers on occasion.

 

[Briancuse]

Man. The Duke win provided a nice little break from the sky is always falling BS. Guess that’s over.

You threw in the towel every time we lost last year, so I guess this is just what you do.

It was a really nice unexpected win but we need to capitalize on it and use it as a springboard.

 

[RF2044]

No doubt JB recruits for his system above all, just as you allude. And, his success speaks for itself. Maybe JB doesn't go after these elite guys against these top programs as you've suggested, though who knows for certain. I think what's somewhat, let's say frustrating, is that Syracuse is 5th in all time D1 wins (when you include the bogus 101 vacated W's) and only behind UK, KU, UNC & Duke respectively.

With that being the case, and how SU fans hold the program is such deservedly high regard, I think a lot of the general fan base (not just us fanatics here) feel we should be able to not only compete for these elite blue chippers, but also land our fair share as well, at least from time to time. I don't think that that expectation is unreasonable.

If the same were true on the football side in regards to our number of overall wins & historic ranking, I don't think it would be unexpected/unreasonable in feeling we should be able to land some 5* elite blue chippers on occasion.

That's not unreasonable -- at all. But you miss 100% of the shots you don't take, and with rare exception we don't seem to actively pursue true blue chip, elite recruits anymore.

When we do, it's generally a case of us being in a kid long before they explode into prominence [a la Anthony Davis], and then we bow out when the elite teams start to circle.

There have been a few instances where we've gone the distance -- i.e., Quade Green, Stewart, Noel -- but more often than not it seems like we avoid getting into that competition with the elite programs. Maybe JB isn't confident that we'll win a few of these battles, so he focuses elsewhere? I speculated in my previous post that maybe it had to do with all of the $$$ chicanery that so many schools seem to have engaged in?

But there was a time when we WERE actively pursuing and landing top 10 caliber talent -- in the 80s and early 90s. We just don't seem to focus on those types of players anymore. JB seems to prefer picking his battles with athletes with high upside over blue chip guys [not that he wouldn't take blue chippers if he could land them -- he just doesn't seem to want to battle for them].

Who was the last elite ranked recruit we landed? Carmelo in 2002? And that was after he committed during his junior year as a player ranked in the high 20s / low 30s, only to have his ranking shoot up afterwards.

 

[OrangeDW]

That's not unreasonable -- at all. But you miss 100% of the shots you don't take, and with rare exception we don't seem to actively pursue true blue chip, elite recruits anymore.

When we do, it's generally a case of us being in a kid long before they explode into prominence [a la Anthony Davis], and then we bow out when the elite teams start to circle.

There have been a few instances where we've gone the distance -- i.e., Quade Green, Stewart, Noel -- but more often than not it seems like we avoid getting into that competition with the elite programs. Maybe JB isn't confident that we'll win a few of these battles, so he focuses elsewhere? I speculated in my previous post that maybe it had to do with all of the $$$ chicanery that so many schools seem to have engaged in?

But there was a time when we WERE actively pursuing and landing top 10 caliber talent -- in the 80s and early 90s. We just don't seem to focus on those types of players anymore. JB seems to prefer picking his battles with athletes with high upside over blue chip guys [not that he wouldn't take blue chippers if he could land them -- he just doesn't seem to want to battle for them].

Who was the last elite ranked recruit we landed? Carmelo in 2002? And that was after he committed during his junior year as a player ranked in the high 20s / low 30s, only to have his ranking shoot up afterwards.

DaJuan Coleman seems to be the most recent one?

 

[NateW]

View attachment 150644


View attachment 150645
Yes, we can all clearly see that you were 100% all-in on Hopkins...

You are so full of it that, when you turn 50 in four years, you are going to need a plumber instead of a proctologist for your first colonoscopy.

The most savage of all that is savage.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Our class for next year is terrific. The sky is not falling. In fact the sun is out so enjoy it a little.

next year's class is borderline top 25. It's respectable. Good even. But we need to recruit at a higher level if we want to stop sniffing bubbles.

 

[NKR1978]

next year's class is borderline top 25. It's respectable. Good even. But we need to recruit at a higher level if we want to stop sniffing bubbles.

We’d kill for a top 25 class in football and somehow we need top 15 classes so that we aren’t a bubble team. The sanctions are over, we’ll be fine.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Gmac - Goodine, JGIII, Moyer

Goodine's grandma gets most of the credit there. And we know how Moyer turned out.

Yes that's a bit harsh, but so are the fans that want him to be our next HC.

 

[FrancoPizza]

We’d kill for a top 25 class in football and somehow we need top 15 classes so that we aren’t a bubble team.

We've never had a football class ranked higher than maybe 20. JB used to consistently pull in classes ranked anywhere from 10-25 with maybe the occasional class outside of that range. A class ranked 25 in hoops is barely treading water if you consider us in the category just below the elites. So, again, what line of reasoning makes you think those sports are remotely comparable?

 

[FrancoPizza]

That's not unreasonable -- at all. But you miss 100% of the shots you don't take, and with rare exception we don't seem to actively pursue true blue chip, elite recruits anymore.

When we do, it's generally a case of us being in a kid long before they explode into prominence [a la Anthony Davis], and then we bow out when the elite teams start to circle.

There have been a few instances where we've gone the distance -- i.e., Quade Green, Stewart, Noel -- but more often than not it seems like we avoid getting into that competition with the elite programs. Maybe JB isn't confident that we'll win a few of these battles, so he focuses elsewhere? I speculated in my previous post that maybe it had to do with all of the $$$ chicanery that so many schools seem to have engaged in?

But there was a time when we WERE actively pursuing and landing top 10 caliber talent -- in the 80s and early 90s. We just don't seem to focus on those types of players anymore. JB seems to prefer picking his battles with athletes with high upside over blue chip guys [not that he wouldn't take blue chippers if he could land them -- he just doesn't seem to want to battle for them].

Who was the last elite ranked recruit we landed? Carmelo in 2002? And that was after he committed during his junior year as a player ranked in the high 20s / low 30s, only to have his ranking shoot up afterwards.

I'd say waiters, Fab, Christmas, and DC2, and Malachi were very highly regarded. There's no reason we can't aspire to land 1 McD recruit (or a borderline McD) in 2 out of every 3 classes. So yes, we're rarely in pursuit of a top 5-10 talent but the kids in the 10-25 range should be on our radar. That means we have to put the extra time in and play the game. The concern has always been, without hop or weaver, how much can JB really step it up at this point of his career?

 

[Zepharus]

View attachment 150644


View attachment 150645
Yes, we can all clearly see that you were 100% all-in on Hopkins...

You are so full of it that, when you turn 50 in four years, you are going to need a plumber instead of a proctologist for your first colonoscopy.

Well isn't this a very Millennial thing to do.. you'd make Ariana Grande blush

I own it. plain and simple. I was wrong. Wasn't a fan of what transpired, as many weren't. Turns out it was the team and a microcosm of the program.

 

[Edfromsodus]

Do we have a big man coach. Used to Bernie. Commentators would rave about the work he did with the big men. Then it was Hop. Can't even tell you who it is now. Sad really.

 

[RF2044]

Goodine's grandma gets most of the credit there. And we know how Moyer turned out.

Yes that's a bit harsh, but so are the fans that want him to be our next HC.

Maybe we should add Goodine's grandma to the staff -- we could use a bull dog recruiter.

 

[RF2044]

I'd say waiters, Fab, Christmas, and DC2, and Malachi were very highly regarded. There's no reason we can't aspire to land 1 McD recruit (or a borderline McD) in 2 out of every 3 classes. So yes, we're rarely in pursuit of a top 5-10 talent but the kids in the 10-25 range should be on our radar. That means we have to put the extra time in and play the game. The concern has always been, without hop or weaver, how much can JB really step it up at this point of his career?

They were highly regarded, but not elite. Not top 10 [for the record, I get that McD's AA's are all highly rated, but I'm setting the bar a bit higher than that].

None of those players came in with the hype, fanfare, or immediate pro expectations that 75% of kentucky's recruits come in with every year.

 

[OrangeDW]

Do we have a big man coach. Used to Bernie. Commentators would rave about the work he did with the big men. Then it was Hop. Can't even tell you who it is now. Sad really.

Oh my head. We love you Jimmy!