SWC75
Bored Historian
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
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He's doing an article that will come out later in the week about why people aren't going to games- and why the problem seems to be worsening. He also wants to know when Syracuse stopped being a 'football school' and why. He's asking several people who have been long-time fans or observers of the program. Anything anybody here has to off would be welcome I'm sure.
My observations:
- We really have the profile of a basketball school, not a football school: a mid-size private school in the northeast in a state that doesn't emphasize high school football. A lot of private schools used to be good in football, like Fordham, NYU, Georgetown, Carnegie Tech, etc. who then gave up the sport or reduced themselves to the small college level. We almost did the same thing in the 70's. When we finally built the Dome it was a commitment to continue playing big time football. But it's heavy lifting for a school like Syracuse.
- We used to be a football school in the Schwartzwalder Era when our basketball teams had football players who were trying to stay in shape in their starting line-ups. I think two platoon football was the undoing of the football program: we weren't prepared to do the in-depth recruiting that required and the program fell apart from the late 60's through the mid 70's and we weren't able to get it going again for a decade afterwards. meanwhile the basketball program, buoyed, ironically by two building built for the football program: Manley Field House and the Carrier Dome, became a national power and the symbol of the school and community
- We've never drawn huge crowds. If you look at the attendance figures in the Media Guide, we've rarely had sell-outs in one of the smaller stadiums in the division. The 1959 national champions, playing in a stadium with a capacity of 41,000, averaged 30,200 with a high of 35,000 against West Virginia, (in a game played here, not in Morgantown as Hollywood supposed. The 1987 team, playing in a stadium that seats 50,000, averaged 44,490 and only sold out for Penn State, although they came close with BC and West Virginia.
- It would be interesting to compare the sizes of the populations and markets in football hotbeds to what we have here. The impact of having several pro teams in the region also has to be considered.
- I've never had any complaints about the concessions or amenities of the Dome. I don't use them that much: I usually get a bottle of water and remain in my seat until the game is over. I can't speak to what aspects of the Dome might drive people away as they haven't driven me away. I even like the chrome benches because you can climb over them if a row is blocked. I like the pictures on the wall. Maybe they could paint the walls orange. I'd even go for orange turf, (it would then make sens to wear blue), if it would help recruiting by making us unique.
- I do think the parking around the Dome is and has always been an issue. We keep setting "on campus" records. It suggests that few schools have their stadiums on campus. i think if a stadium was surrounded by adequate parking you'd probably get more fans. That was my primary objection to the proposal to build a new Dome down the hill. There was no parking at all in the diagram. They wanted to put it there to "revitalize the neighborhood". People have to park there to do that. If they are just getting on and off of buses to go to the games, all they are going to see of the neighborhood is was appears outside the bus windows.
- Maybe if we had more interest in high school football in this state it would carry over to more interest in college football. Maybe it's a grassroots problem.
- The Dome has always been the perfect place far a state-of the art passing game. If we'd had one of those aerial circus offenses from the beginning, we'd be able to recruit talent form all over the country to play that style. We'd score tons of points and people would come out to see our team, not the other team. it wouldn't matter if we were playing Central Michigan or LSU. We'd be the show.
- I had no explanation of why the attendance problems would be worse now than in years or why more people would have shown up for the Rhode Island game, against a worse, non-league opponent on a nicer day with the State Fair still going. Every explanation I've ever heard for our attendance problems has been around for years. Why are things worse now? I'm also baffled by the difference between reported attendance and actual attendance. I know it's ticket sales vs. turnstile count. What I don't understand is why people would have bought tickets and then no used them.
- In the end, fans have to see themselves not just as consumers but investors. It's not enough to say that you will start to care again about SU football when they get good. Investing in the program, financially and emotionally will help them get good again.
My observations:
- We really have the profile of a basketball school, not a football school: a mid-size private school in the northeast in a state that doesn't emphasize high school football. A lot of private schools used to be good in football, like Fordham, NYU, Georgetown, Carnegie Tech, etc. who then gave up the sport or reduced themselves to the small college level. We almost did the same thing in the 70's. When we finally built the Dome it was a commitment to continue playing big time football. But it's heavy lifting for a school like Syracuse.
- We used to be a football school in the Schwartzwalder Era when our basketball teams had football players who were trying to stay in shape in their starting line-ups. I think two platoon football was the undoing of the football program: we weren't prepared to do the in-depth recruiting that required and the program fell apart from the late 60's through the mid 70's and we weren't able to get it going again for a decade afterwards. meanwhile the basketball program, buoyed, ironically by two building built for the football program: Manley Field House and the Carrier Dome, became a national power and the symbol of the school and community
- We've never drawn huge crowds. If you look at the attendance figures in the Media Guide, we've rarely had sell-outs in one of the smaller stadiums in the division. The 1959 national champions, playing in a stadium with a capacity of 41,000, averaged 30,200 with a high of 35,000 against West Virginia, (in a game played here, not in Morgantown as Hollywood supposed. The 1987 team, playing in a stadium that seats 50,000, averaged 44,490 and only sold out for Penn State, although they came close with BC and West Virginia.
- It would be interesting to compare the sizes of the populations and markets in football hotbeds to what we have here. The impact of having several pro teams in the region also has to be considered.
- I've never had any complaints about the concessions or amenities of the Dome. I don't use them that much: I usually get a bottle of water and remain in my seat until the game is over. I can't speak to what aspects of the Dome might drive people away as they haven't driven me away. I even like the chrome benches because you can climb over them if a row is blocked. I like the pictures on the wall. Maybe they could paint the walls orange. I'd even go for orange turf, (it would then make sens to wear blue), if it would help recruiting by making us unique.
- I do think the parking around the Dome is and has always been an issue. We keep setting "on campus" records. It suggests that few schools have their stadiums on campus. i think if a stadium was surrounded by adequate parking you'd probably get more fans. That was my primary objection to the proposal to build a new Dome down the hill. There was no parking at all in the diagram. They wanted to put it there to "revitalize the neighborhood". People have to park there to do that. If they are just getting on and off of buses to go to the games, all they are going to see of the neighborhood is was appears outside the bus windows.
- Maybe if we had more interest in high school football in this state it would carry over to more interest in college football. Maybe it's a grassroots problem.
- The Dome has always been the perfect place far a state-of the art passing game. If we'd had one of those aerial circus offenses from the beginning, we'd be able to recruit talent form all over the country to play that style. We'd score tons of points and people would come out to see our team, not the other team. it wouldn't matter if we were playing Central Michigan or LSU. We'd be the show.
- I had no explanation of why the attendance problems would be worse now than in years or why more people would have shown up for the Rhode Island game, against a worse, non-league opponent on a nicer day with the State Fair still going. Every explanation I've ever heard for our attendance problems has been around for years. Why are things worse now? I'm also baffled by the difference between reported attendance and actual attendance. I know it's ticket sales vs. turnstile count. What I don't understand is why people would have bought tickets and then no used them.
- In the end, fans have to see themselves not just as consumers but investors. It's not enough to say that you will start to care again about SU football when they get good. Investing in the program, financially and emotionally will help them get good again.
Winners could text back whether it's OK to have their name shared with all participating in the (ongoing) contests. Might be of interest particularly to students. I understand wifi has improved in the Dome.
