just heard a few minutes ago

[JeremyCuse]

Sounds like typical SU administration stuff to me, and people wonder why attendance is plummeting.

 

[Alsacs]

I honestly can't believe we are having this discussion. First, Syracuse University is the number 1 employer for the city of Syracuse. Second, we can't go down this road it is completely political and when you go political you offend people. Has the AD Dept done some things recently to alienate the local fans? Yes, but your accusation is purely hearsay at best. We aren't getting a new stadium for atleast a decade. Enjoy our teams and if you don't go to the games anymore sorry, but I am not sure your points are accurate.

 

[dollarbill44]

That's refered to as "Day Labor". Temporary services have been doing it for decades, before illegals.

And charging more and providing workers for the most part. I've worked construction in the past. The illegals worked their asses off and didn't complain. Can't say the same for some of the legal laborers.

I don't blame contractors one bit.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

And charging more and providing workers for the most part. I've worked construction in the past. The illegals worked their asses off and didn't complain. Can't say the same for some of the legal laborers.

I don't blame contractors one bit.

LOL, of course you don't. This isn't union versus non union. It's legal versus illegal. You don't blame business owners for hiring illegal labor, paying guys cash, no offer of benefits, no insurance, etc. What.

It's just at this point, if you walk onto any large commercial jobsite that is should I say privately funded for the most part ( NON UNION), I would venture a guess that 25-50% of all the labor there is getting paid in an illegal fashion or worse are illegal immigrants. There is a right way and a wrong way to do things, plain and simple.

 

[OttoMets]

that more parking lots for the dome are most likely going bye-bye,not the law school job,but another.

heard that the dome powers to be are starting to complain as they will have no parking left around the dome,except to a few big donors. fire dept,police and others are starting to voice their opinions.

.

That was expected; it doesn't change the fact that SU is committed to having something like 2,100 parking spots on west campus (sorry, I don't have the cite handy, but this has been discussed before on the board). While they build (buildings or structured parking) on existing surface lots, of course, some spots are going to be temporarily lost.

They're staggering this project over at least a decade. No significant number of parking is supposed to be tied up at any one time (Raynor lot was closed as of yesterday; groundbreaking of the new law building is in two weeks but utility relocation has begun; that lot held 102 spaces, not all of which were made available for Dome events). Traffic patterns are another story, and if police are really "voicing their opinions" on this subject about which they sound rather ignorant, perhaps it should be about that concern. Consensus on here was that SPD's handling of egress from the lots was pretty poor last season.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

LOL, of course you don't. This isn't union versus non union. It's legal versus illegal. You don't blame business owners for hiring illegal labor, paying guys cash, no offer of benefits, no insurance, etc. What.

It's just at this point, if you walk onto any large commercial jobsite that is non union, I would venture a guess that 25-50% of all the labor there is getting paid in an illegal fashion or worse are illegal immigrants. There is a right way and a wrong way to do things, plain and simple

I understand your point and as too illegals and non-payroll, I can agree. However, unions are an under current because the wage/benefit demands make it difficult to make money on jobs. I know of people with HS diplomas making $150k due to unions.

Sent from my Vortex using Tapatalk 2

 

[Noexcuse]

 

[xc84]

can we focus on parking instead of Mexicans?

 

[OttoMets]

Not a highway engineer so I don't have a clue, but it seems to me that a couple of the pluses about a Skytop site would be, they own the land and have plenty of it, and it would be a lot easier to get to, with some upgrading of the access streets.

Not to mention parking.

Disclaimer: I'm not advocating for Skytop, just wondering.

Surely the fact that SU owns a ton of land at Skytop is the big plus associated with that idea.

I don't see access as any better than in the current set-up. Main campus: hemmed in on the south by a cemetery, the east by a campus, the west by topography and lack of through streets, and to some extent on the north by SUNY and VA campuses. South campus: hemmed in on the east by private land, the south by restrictive topography, on the west by private neighborhoods without through streets, and to some extent on the north by topography (Morningside) and SU's own Manley complex. The same folks who find Irving and Almond lacking are going to think the same about Lancaster and Comstock.

(Yes, I'm aware that many think that New York will pay for some kind of I-481 interchange, but anyone who's tried to access a major event from a single-point freeway interchange knows what kind of congestion that creates. Not to mention the engineering headache and expense of creating access from a freeeway 200+ feet - and a steep grade - below the stadium.)

As you said, not advocating, but I don't see this as the pie-in-the-sky panacea that many do.

 

[JeremyCuse]

That was expected; it doesn't change the fact that SU is committed to having something like 2,100 parking spots on west campus (sorry, I don't have the cite handy, but this has been discussed before on the board). While they build (buildings or structured parking) on existing surface lots, of course, some spots are going to be temporarily lost.

They're staggering this project over at least a decade. No significant number of parking is supposed to be tied up at any one time (Raynor lot was closed as of yesterday; groundbreaking of the new law building is in two weeks but utility relocation has begun; that lot held 102 spaces, not all of which were made available for Dome events). Traffic patterns are another story, and if police are really "voicing their opinions" on this subject about which they sound rather ignorant, perhaps it should be about that concern. Consensus on here was that SPD's handling of egress from the lots was pretty poor last season.

What are you considering West Campus? I am having a hard time seeing how there is going to be 2100 spots for parking this year alone less a few years from now when construction ramps up even more. The loss of Raynor can be survived but losing Fine or Standart will be a death Knell for tailgating and parking near the dome.

 

[Ozcuse]

I think someone should convince the Mexicans that the Syracuse University futbol team plays in the Dome and maybe we'll get some more season ticket holders.

 

[xc84]

Surely the fact that SU owns a ton of land at Skytop is the big plus associated with that idea.

I don't see access as any better than in the current set-up. Main campus: hemmed in on the south by a cemetery, the east by a campus, the west by topography and lack of through streets, and to some extent on the north by SUNY and VA campuses. South campus: hemmed in on the east by private land, the south by restrictive topography, on the west by private neighborhoods without through streets, and to some extent on the north by topography (Morningside) and SU's own Manley complex. The same folks who find Irving and Almond lacking are going to think the same about Lancaster and Comstock.

(Yes, I'm aware that many think that New York will pay for some kind of I-481 interchange, but anyone who's tried to access a major event from a single-point freeway interchange knows what kind of congestion that creates. Not to mention the engineering headache and expense of creating access from a freeeway 200+ feet - and a steep grade - below the stadium.)

As you said, not advocating, but I don't see this as the pie-in-the-sky panacea that many do.

481 receives cars from 690, 90, 81. A dedicated entrance/exit there would help traffic a lot for a Skytop stadium. I've yet to go to or leave a crowded stadium without a wait. It's unavoidable, but manageable. In fact, my exit from the Carrier dome is one of the more reasonable waits. It may take me 5-10 minutes tops for me to get to 690...and from there it's clear sailing to 90.

 

[BlueCurtain]

i am sure su needs more seats than the crunch. the proposal was for a 24k seat arena. i am sure it would be used for more than just su and the crunch but they would be the main tenants.

The problem is, even if this could be KFC Yum quality, we'd lose the recruiting advantage of hosting the largest crowds. This is one of those situations where you need to think beyond the practical, have a vision, and pony up for an extra 6k+ seats. Players and recruits don't care about poor sight lines, narrow aisles, and pee troughs. They see themselves on college basketball's biggest stage. The Dome as a recruiting tool is not to be underestimated.

 

[OttoMets]

What are you considering West Campus? I am having a hard time seeing how there is going to be 2100 spots for parking this year alone less a few years from now when construction ramps up even more. The loss of Raynor can be survived but losing Fine or Standart will be a death Knell for tailgating and parking near the dome.

I'm not sure what they consider West Campus, but it was spelled out when they got permission from the Planning Commission early last year. Probably something like Irving/Van Buren/I-81/Oakland?

I think the idea is that they're actually increasing the number of spots in the neighborhood (due to the increased demand - they're allowed to build 1.7 million square feet) over the next decade while getting some graduate students to stop using the lots for car storage. It's not going to happen immediately, though. But they're definitely contractually bound to end up with more spaces than they had in 2011 (I'm not sure if it's actually 2,100 - might've been 1,900 or something like that - but it's a large number).

It's my understanding that the law building is the only project to get underway in the short term, resulting in the technical loss of 102 spaces (but, as we all know, most of those 102 spaces were unavailable for football and basketball games - Raynor was usually more than half empty). ESF is building a large academic building on the north half of the Standart lot (http://www.esf.edu/efb/newhome.asp), but I think that doesn't break ground until summer 2013. And SU has acquired the block directly across from that (the one with the ten rental houses on it), which will likely be used to replace that lost parking.

So I think Standart and Fine should remain as-is for a few more years. The next big capital project on the Hill will likely be the renovation of the old law buildings into new quarters for the Falk School, and that won't have any effect on the tailgate situation.

 

[OttoMets]

481 receives cars from 690, 90, 81. A dedicated entrance/exit there would help traffic a lot for a Skytop stadium. I've yet to go to or leave a crowded stadium without a wait. It's unavoidable, but manageable. In fact, my exit from the Carrier dome is one of the more reasonable waits. It may take me 5-10 minutes tops for me to get to 690...and from there it's clear sailing to 90.

It's the old lesson: street grids handle traffic better than a single-point expressway entrance. As you note, when 40,000 people leave a place in a short window, there's going to be waiting involved.

 

[JackBauer44]

Reminds me of this sketch...

 

[OttoMets]

What are you considering West Campus? I am having a hard time seeing how there is going to be 2100 spots for parking this year alone less a few years from now when construction ramps up even more. The loss of Raynor can be survived but losing Fine or Standart will be a death Knell for tailgating and parking near the dome.

I should add - and this is personal opinion, not something that I've heard or read - that the city and the university would be remiss not to consider increasing the number of metered on-street parking spots in the neighborhood.

Washington did something similar when they built the new stadium for the Nationals; they charge something like $15 for event day parking at meters. The high price encourages turnover, but it's still a deal compared to the stadium garages. Irving and some of the other neighborhood streets could probably accommodate a hundred cars or so; it's currently wasted capacity in a really great location. Tailgating on the planting strip and along the sidewalk is a little different than doing so in the big lots, but it could work pretty well (people do it farther down Crouse and University).

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I understand your point and as too illegals and non-payroll, I can agree. However, unions are an under current because the wage/benefit demands make it difficult to make money on jobs. I know of people with HS diplomas making $150k due to unions.

Sent from my Vortex using Tapatalk 2

Are you saying that those without advanced degrees who excel at their craft should not be able to make over $100K? I assure you that if they are in the trades making that type of money in CNY, they are also in a supervisory position and also working plenty of OT. However if they are in one of the local trade unions I would find that to be an exception not a rule. Difficult for who to make money on jobs? I know what my labor cost and I figure it. Sure, many of these developers don't want to pay union wages but if they were actually paying legit non union people then that I can live with. I can compete with the few LEGIT non union companies out there and I can assure you they are very very few. That said, The guys that work for us are company people first and union people second, I can assure you of that so there is a difference. People tend to equate education with compensation? Not even remotely accurate when it comes to construction. There is a contractor in Syracuse who I will never name that doesn't even have a GED, who is tremendously talented, built his business from the ground up and I can assure you is an extremely wealthy man, extremely and yes his biz is union as well. Another guy much like that in Ithaca as well, owns more property down here than anyone.

I would rather pay for experience and level headed supervisors over college education in the construction industry anyday. To many guys in construction who want to run projects from I Phones and text messages these days. Lots of educated idiots for sure, I say that as one of them but who also has a union carpenter as a partner who has the business savy of a Wharton graduate when it applies to our business and I mean that. Construction sometimes doesn't apply to the rest of the business world either.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I'm not sure what they consider West Campus, but it was spelled out when they got permission from the Planning Commission early last year. Probably something like Irving/Van Buren/I-81/Oakland?

I think the idea is that they're actually increasing the number of spots in the neighborhood (due to the increased demand - they're allowed to build 1.7 million square feet) over the next decade while getting some graduate students to stop using the lots for car storage. It's not going to happen immediately, though. But they're definitely contractually bound to end up with more spaces than they had in 2011 (I'm not sure if it's actually 2,100 - might've been 1,900 or something like that - but it's a large number).

It's my understanding that the law building is the only project to get underway in the short term, resulting in the technical loss of 102 spaces (but, as we all know, most of those 102 spaces were unavailable for football and basketball games - Raynor was usually more than half empty). ESF is building a large academic building on the north half of the Standart lot (http://www.esf.edu/efb/newhome.asp), but I think that doesn't break ground until summer 2013. And SU has acquired the block directly across from that (the one with the ten rental houses on it), which will likely be used to replace that lost parking.

So I think Standart and Fine should remain as-is for a few more years. The next big capital project on the Hill will likely be the renovation of the old law buildings into new quarters for the Falk School, and that won't have any effect on the tailgate situation.

Thanks a lot of good information in that post. The information you provided has me a little more upbeat about the situation then I have in a while. I have been preaching for SU to buy those row of houses for years glad they finally did it. Could easily be turned into multiple use parking lot for students most of the year and fans for basketball/football games.

 

[KaiserUEO]

why did you cnyers let the west campus mexicans take all the parking at the Dome.

:noidea:

 

[SU2NASA]

why did you cnyers let the west campus mexicans take all the parking at the Dome.

:noidea:

 

[OttoMets]

Thanks a lot of good information in that post. The information you provided has me a little more upbeat about the situation then I have in a while. I have been preaching for SU to buy those row of houses for years glad they finally did it. Could easily be turned into multiple use parking lot for students most of the year and fans for basketball/football games.

The transfer of that block actually hasn't gone through yet, which surprises me - all those houses are still owned by some LLC whose address is at ESF. But SU and ESF have agreed to swap their blocks, so it's bound to happen sometime. When it does, I think you're right - it'll become a surface lot to alleviate the construction crunch over on Standart.

 

[NKR1978]

I understand your point and as too illegals and non-payroll, I can agree. However, unions are an under current because the wage/benefit demands make it difficult to make money on jobs. I know of people with HS diplomas making $150k due to unions.

Sent from my Vortex using Tapatalk 2

Why is that a bad thing? I used to deal with a lot of union ironworkers. Sure, they make a buttload of money for hourly workers, but once they fall off a scaffold, or mess up their back, etc., they're done. And what other skills do they have to reenter the job market. I've seen guys in their early 30s stuck with a failed fusion and failed back syndrome for the rest of their lives. If they're fortunate they may have a Labor Law case, but usually they're stuck in workers' comp with their maximum weekly benefit anywhere from $400 or less (prior to 7/1/07) to $772 (as of 7/1/11). One bad move on the job and they can lose everything. That's why they make so much. And as someone who spent far too much money on my education, it's nice to see that there are people in this country who can make $2500 a week without any degrees.

 

[jr4750]

I'm not sure what they consider West Campus, but it was spelled out when they got permission from the Planning Commission early last year. Probably something like Irving/Van Buren/I-81/Oakland?

I think the idea is that they're actually increasing the number of spots in the neighborhood (due to the increased demand - they're allowed to build 1.7 million square feet) over the next decade while getting some graduate students to stop using the lots for car storage. It's not going to happen immediately, though. But they're definitely contractually bound to end up with more spaces than they had in 2011 (I'm not sure if it's actually 2,100 - might've been 1,900 or something like that - but it's a large number).

It's my understanding that the law building is the only project to get underway in the short term, resulting in the technical loss of 102 spaces (but, as we all know, most of those 102 spaces were unavailable for football and basketball games - Raynor was usually more than half empty). ESF is building a large academic building on the north half of the Standart lot (http://www.esf.edu/efb/newhome.asp), but I think that doesn't break ground until summer 2013. And SU has acquired the block directly across from that (the one with the ten rental houses on it), which will likely be used to replace that lost parking.

So I think Standart and Fine should remain as-is for a few more years. The next big capital project on the Hill will likely be the renovation of the old law buildings into new quarters for the Falk School, and that won't have any effect on the tailgate situation.

Do you have any idea what the status of the new bookstore that was proposed and/or the project funded by the past BOT President to create a welcome center for prospective students in the old b school? Haven't heard much on either of those and not sure if they are still a possibility? Thanks!

 

[rrlbees]

The problem is, even if this could be KFC Yum quality, we'd lose the recruiting advantage of hosting the largest crowds. This is one of those situations where you need to think beyond the practical, have a vision, and pony up for an extra 6k+ seats. Players and recruits don't care about poor sight lines, narrow aisles, and pee troughs. They see themselves on college basketball's biggest stage. The Dome as a recruiting tool is not to be underestimated.

i didn't say i was for a downtown arena, just that there had been talk led mostly by dolgen. but if and when the football team moves, it does beg the question of what about basketball.