just heard a few minutes ago

[GoSU96]

All you rich alumni.

They're looking in the wrong direction then.

It's hard enough pulling together $5M-10M, where the hell are they going to get 100x's that.

 

[bevosu]

Again, the cost of the land is the least of the issues.

Not the cost..the amount of land (open space)

 

[sutomcat]

im down with that, but i dont see retractable. id imagine it would end up like lucas oil, but with 50k. still dont think we will see it for 25 years or so.

The cost to make a dome retractable is not prohibitive these days. When I last looked at it, the last 8 or 9 domes built in the US were all retractable. Would be surprised to see any major dome built in the future without it being retractable.

As to the cost, here is a quick review of some of the money SU has spent on capital investments over the past 7 years:

The Syracuse Center for Excellence was dedicated in 2010. It cost $41 million. The Green Data Center opened in 2009. It cost $12.4 million.
Ernie Davis Hall opened in 2009 at a cost of $50 million.
SU built the Life Sciences Complex, which opened in 2008, for $113 million. Newhouse III opened in 2007 at a cost of 31.6 million.
The Whitman School of Management building opened in 2005 at a cost of $40 million.

The money will come from private donations, government support (as with all these buildings), the university will pay a substantial part of the bill, plus the developers will kick in a substantial amount of money. This is not going to be a stand alone stadium. There is going to be a shopping center, a hotel, a convention center, there will be restaurants, there will be recreational options, etc. The developers need to make major investments in order to participate in the profits of the different ventures associated with the complex.

And there will be many naming options, ones for a lot more money that Carrier paid for the dome back in 1979.

 

[Millhouse]

The cost to make a dome retractable is not prohibitive these days. When I last looked at it, the last 8 or 9 domes built in the US were all retractable. Would be surprised to see any major dome built in the future without it being retractable.

As to the cost, here is a quick review of some of the money SU has spent on capital investments over the past 7 years:

The Syracuse Center for Excellence was dedicated in 2010. It cost $41 million. The Green Data Center opened in 2009. It cost $12.4 million.
Ernie Davis Hall opened in 2009 at a cost of $50 million.
SU built the Life Sciences Complex, which opened in 2008, for $113 million. Newhouse III opened in 2007 at a cost of 31.6 million.
The Whitman School of Management building opened in 2005 at a cost of $40 million.

The money will come from private donations, government support (as with all these buildings), the university will pay a substantial part of the bill, plus the developers will kick in a substantial amount of money. This is not going to be a stand alone stadium. There is going to be a shopping center, a hotel, a convention center, there will be restaurants, there will be recreational options, etc. The developers need to make major investments in order to participate in the profits of the different ventures associated with the complex.

And there will be many naming options, ones for a lot more money that Carrier paid for the dome back in 1979.

the reason stadiums come with government support is because they're terrible investments.

unlike a pro team with lots of fans, SU can't easily threaten to move and there aren't enough people that would care if they did. if NYS is throwing around money like this when the time comes, we're all doomed

I think this entire thread is nuts. It's fitting that retro managed to kick it off.

Walk up the hill or take a shuttle.

 

[GoSU96]

Not the cost..the amount of land (open space)

Open Space? That is not an issue in Onondaga County of all places.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

If a new football stadium is built, does that mean the Dome has to go down? The inside could be renovated to suit basketball; 35k capacity, nicer seats, seats closer to court, etc.

 

[Millhouse]

Let's say a million bodies go in and out of the dome in a year. Football basketball lax.

Life of a stadium is 30 years?

put in a 10 dollar cover charge for every person that walks through the door for 30 years, that'll pay for a 300M stadium

is the dome really that bad?

 

[GoSU96]

the reason stadiums come with government support is because they're terrible investments.

unlike a pro team with lots of fans, SU can't easily threaten to move and there aren't enough people that would care if they did. if NYS is throwing around money like this when the time comes, we're all doomed

I think this entire thread is nuts. It's fitting that retro managed to kick it off.

Walk up the hill or take a shuttle.

Plus all those other places are multi-use public authority owned facilities in major cities. They are in high density, high hotel room areas, not off in a suburan field owned by a private university. To start to justify that investment you would need to have the prospect of multiple major events annually. 6 college football games, 20 basketball games, and 7 lacrosse games a year doesn't come close.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

Plus all those other places are multi-use public authority owned facilities in major cities. They are in high density, high hotel room areas, not off in a suburan field owned by a private university. To start to justify that investment you would need to have the prospect of multiple major events annually. 6 college football games, 20 basketball games, and 7 lacrosse games a year doesn't come close.

 

[GoSU96]

Let's say a million bodies go in and out of the dome in a year. Football basketball lax.

Life of a stadium is 30 years?

put in a 10 dollar cover charge for every person that walks through the door for 30 years, that'll pay for a 300M stadium

is the dome really that bad?

It's going to be more than that.

 

[bevosu]

Open Space? That is not an issue in Onondaga County of all places.

Find that much open space in onondaga county that is on or near the campus..not counting Drumlins.

I'm not suggesting that owned open space will be a deciding factor, if a new stadium is ever built, just wondering if access or Skytop would be factors if and when a decision is made.

Not sure whether access from 81 Colvin St (with upgrades)..or a new exit off 481 would improve access or is even viable. OttoMets doesn't see access being any better at Skytop..he may be right?

 

[Millhouse]

Plus all those other places are multi-use public authority owned facilities in major cities. They are in high density, high hotel room areas, not off in a suburan field owned by a private university. To start to justify that investment you would need to have the prospect of multiple major events annually. 6 college football games, 20 basketball games, and 7 lacrosse games a year doesn't come close.

even in high density high hotel room areas, you have a tough time justifying that type of investment.

conventions are the magic bullet plug. hmm how do we justify spending so much money on a football field.. uhhhh conventions! that's the ticket!

conventions are always in the back pocket of people who want to spend other peoples money

 

[Millhouse]

It's going to be more than that.

i was being intentionally conservative.(also i wasn't clear i'm not in favor of increasing every ticket 10 bucks for 30 years)

 

[GoSU96]

Not exactly the demographic that is going to support something like this. All those places that Tomcat is pointing to host Superbowls, National championship games, BCS bowls, major conventions.

A stadium like this is a huge investment, and not even half the issue.

 

[GoSU96]

even in high density high hotel room areas, you have a tough time justifying that type of investment.

conventions are the magic bullet plug. hmm how do we justify spending so much money on a football field.. uhhhh conventions! that's the ticket!

conventions are always in the back pocket of people who want to spend other peoples money

Just to be clear, I wasn't disagreeing with you.

 

[Millhouse]

Just to be clear, I wasn't disagreeing with you.

ha, so was i

 

[GoSU96]

Find that much open space in onondaga county that is on or near the campus..not counting Drumlins.

I'm not suggesting that owned open space will be a deciding factor, if a new stadium is ever built, just wondering if access or Skytop would be factors if and when a decision is made.

Not sure whether access from 81 Colvin St (with upgrades)..or a new exit off 481 would improve access or is even viable. OttoMets doesn't see access being any better at Skytop..he may be right?

It makes perfect sense if people want to be reasonable in their expectations. For an open air 45K seat football stadium it's a perfect location. Can probably get a very nice facility for $125M. It would be right in line with what BC, Rutgers, Uconn have.

 

[Ozcuse]

even in high density high hotel room areas, you have a tough time justifying that type of investment.

conventions are the magic bullet plug. hmm how do we justify spending so much money on a football field.. uhhhh conventions! that's the ticket!

conventions are always in the back pocket of people who want to spend other peoples money

Onondaga County has to dump millions into the OnCenter's operating budget every year just to break even. I doubt another convention center is going to help the numbers. I don't see the County being in support of it.

 

[KaiserUEO]

even in high density high hotel room areas, you have a tough time justifying that type of investment.

conventions are the magic bullet plug. hmm how do we justify spending so much money on a football field.. uhhhh conventions! that's the ticket!

conventions are always in the back pocket of people who want to spend other peoples money

in order to have conventions, dont you have to have people with jobs that need to convene???

there is certainly no need for that in cny.

Oh Lord

 

[OrangeCrush22]

Not exactly the demographic that is going to support something like this. All those places that Tomcat is pointing to host Superbowls, National championship games, BCS bowls, major conventions.

A stadium like this is a huge investment, and not even half the issue.

I know it was just a joke.

 

[Bayside44]

The cost to make a dome retractable is not prohibitive these days. When I last looked at it, the last 8 or 9 domes built in the US were all retractable. Would be surprised to see any major dome built in the future without it being retractable.

As to the cost, here is a quick review of some of the money SU has spent on capital investments over the past 7 years:

The Syracuse Center for Excellence was dedicated in 2010. It cost $41 million. The Green Data Center opened in 2009. It cost $12.4 million.
Ernie Davis Hall opened in 2009 at a cost of $50 million.
SU built the Life Sciences Complex, which opened in 2008, for $113 million. Newhouse III opened in 2007 at a cost of 31.6 million.
The Whitman School of Management building opened in 2005 at a cost of $40 million.

The money will come from private donations, government support (as with all these buildings), the university will pay a substantial part of the bill, plus the developers will kick in a substantial amount of money. This is not going to be a stand alone stadium. There is going to be a shopping center, a hotel, a convention center, there will be restaurants, there will be recreational options, etc. The developers need to make major investments in order to participate in the profits of the different ventures associated with the complex.

And there will be many naming options, ones for a lot more money that Carrier paid for the dome back in 1979.

The Washington Nationals don't have their stadium named after anything and they are 10 blocks from the Capitol.

You want this built in NYS, which is broke and bleeding population for 6 football games a year, 20 hoops games, and some monster trucks, and the odd Bruce show - since he will tour forever - the taxpayers (what's left of them) would revolt. Then you go non-union to cut costs and forget that.

You have a shopping center, a big one. And those malls are going out of style anyways.

I am personally pretty content with the Carrier Dome being there for as long as I live (spruced up from time to time) , and I hope to hang around a while. And I think that's a good thing for SU.

 

[sutomcat]

If a new football stadium is built, does that mean the Dome has to go down? The inside could be renovated to suit basketball; 35k capacity, nicer seats, seats closer to court, etc.

The thing that is driving this isn't that the Dome is bad/obsolete and needs to be replaced. It is fine. The big problem with it is the location. As the university continues to expand (it has been doing this since it started in Syracuse in 1870), the real estate the Dome occupies becomes more and more valuable and it becomes harder for the university to justify using it for athletics. It needs that land to build academic buildings.

 

[Millhouse]

The thing that is driving this isn't that the Dome is bad/obsolete and needs to be replaced. It is fine. The big problem with it is the location. As the university continues to expand (it has been doing this since it started in Syracuse in 1870), the real estate the Dome occupies becomes more and more valuable and it becomes harder for the university to justify using it for athletics. It needs that land to build academic buildings.

i think it would be considerably cheaper to purchase some other property adjacent to campus to use for expansion

you could bulldoze a lot of land for 500 million

 

[GoSU96]

The thing that is driving this isn't that the Dome is bad/obsolete and needs to be replaced. It is fine. The big problem with it is the location. As the university continues to expand (it has been doing this since it started in Syracuse in 1870), the real estate the Dome occupies becomes more and more valuable and it becomes harder for the university to justify using it for athletics. It needs that land to build academic buildings.

It ain't that valuable.

 

[Millhouse]

It ain't that valuable.

i'm buying a helicopter and putting a helipad on the roof to free up some driveway real estate