Juwan Howard

[MikeSU02]

Nothing a 2-3 zone wouldn't cure.

Take a page out of Kerr's playbook and run Box and 1, 3-2, etc. Haha.

I mean, they should try everything.

 

[miamicuse]

They have 15 people with giant egos pitching ideas to Jeannie Buss. Phil, Rambis, Pelinka, Bron + all the Klutch people - I would wager there were some other names that would surprise people that were at least thrown around for a hot minute.

Lakers are a mess at the top of the org.

and Magic too.

 

[MikeSU02]

and Magic too.

Good call, forgot Magic. Add another voice to the mix.

I legit wouldn't be surprised if someone did propose Phil or Rambis coming back for like a year at some point.

 

[money3189]

They have 15 people with giant egos pitching ideas to Jeannie Buss. Phil, Rambis, Pelinka, Bron + all the Klutch people - I would wager there were some other names that would surprise people that were at least thrown around for a hot minute.

Lakers are a mess at the top of the org.

Agree

 

[hoopsupstate]

LeBron James is a coach killer. He’s not the player he used to be. He takes half of the defensive possessions off. He thinks he’s a GM, coach and player. He’s only won when he’s been surrounded with an abundance of talent. He’s never been on a team that has been developed. He doesn’t listen and he does what he wants. Besides the money, I don’t see why anyone would want that job.

 

[MikeSU02]

LeBron James is a coach killer. He’s not the player he used to be. He takes half of the defensive possessions off. He thinks he’s a GM, coach and player. He’s only won when he’s been surrounded with an abundance of talent. He’s never been on a team that has been developed. He doesn’t listen and he does what he wants. Besides the money, I don’t see why anyone would want that job.

I agree, but he's also brought a title to each team he's been on (granted CLE was his second stint).

I'm with you - I think his overreach has to be the most of all time in terms of influence over an org (maybe what KD and Kyrie have with the Nets now can somewhat compare). KD said out loud, and I'm paraphrasing, that he wouldn't consider, and a lot of other guys wouldn't, playing with him because of the whole circus that came with it.

As a coach, I mean, you have to be able to just go along for the ride. The only time that it really ended up ok for the coach in the long run was with Spo and he had Riley's backing, which is probably the only reason why he got to stick around (which was obviously the right choice).

 

[OrangeDW]

LeBron James is a coach killer. He’s not the player he used to be. He takes half of the defensive possessions off. He thinks he’s a GM, coach and player. He’s only won when he’s been surrounded with an abundance of talent. He’s never been on a team that has been developed. He doesn’t listen and he does what he wants. Besides the money, I don’t see why anyone would want that job.

1. That’s true for literally anyone that’s won an NBA championship. I hate that argument. People use it against Boeheim too.

2. Take a look at that ‘07 Cavs team that went to the finals. That team probably doesn’t win 20 games if you take LeBron off it.

 

[kirbivore]

1. That’s true for literally anyone that’s won an NBA championship. I hate that argument. People use it against Boeheim too.

2. Take a look at that ‘07 Cavs team that went to the finals. That team probably doesn’t win 20 games if you take LeBron off it.

That meathead Russillo always says LeBron should have a 1/2 ring for that 2007 finals appearance.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

2. Take a look at that ‘07 Cavs team that went to the finals. That team probably doesn’t win 10 games if you take LeBron off it.

FIFY

 

[Eric15]

LeBron James is a coach killer. He’s not the player he used to be. He takes half of the defensive possessions off. He thinks he’s a GM, coach and player. He’s only won when he’s been surrounded with an abundance of talent. He’s never been on a team that has been developed. He doesn’t listen and he does what he wants. Besides the money, I don’t see why anyone would want that job.

You could argue he's a coach maker as much as he's a coach killer. Lue, Vogel and Spolestra all have rings on their finger because of Lebron.

As far as not being the player he used to be, that is probably technically accurate as all players regress as they're approaching 40, but he averaged 30/8/6 on 51% shooting at age 37. Who else has done that at that age in league history?

 

[CardiacCuse]

You could argue he's a coach maker as much as he's a coach killer. Lue, Vogel and Spolestra all have rings on their finger because of Lebron.

As far as not being the player he used to be, that is probably technically accurate as all players regress as they're approaching 40, but he averaged 30/8/6 on 51% shooting at age 37. Who else has done that at that age in league history?

he decimates franchises by forcing the GMs to do what he wants NOW! Rich Paul is a nightmare, imo. the NBA had to step in and give the cavs a bunch of #1 picks to cover for what LeBron did to them. Look at what the Cavs did after lebron left them...decimated. Now hes doing the same to the Lakers. Pretty sure he had a huge say in their current roster construction. they had a ton of nice talent on the roster when he arrived now they have...nothing. Once he destroys that franchise's immediate future, then he'll just go somewhere else. Same would be for Miami Heat but they have Riley/Spoelstra who are smart enough to win with non-drafted players and smart draft picks. Meanwhile, LeBrn gets painted as this selfless player who gifts his time and energy to these teams and elevates them to win...his model for winning is inherently unsustainable. He forces teams to trade their future to stack whatever roster he is on for the short-term benefit...in a way that cannot last long-term by design...then leaves once they run out of gas. he's no saint.

 

[Eric15]

Look at what the Cavs did after lebron left them...decimated.

The Cavs didn't make the playoffs in the five years before Lebron arrived. They then made the playoffs five out of the six years he was there (including getting out of the first round every time and a Finals run). In the four years he was in Miami, they were abysmal. He returns for four years, and they go to the Finals every year including a title. He leaves, they're immediately abysmal again. I just don't see how he wasn't a huge net positive for that franchise.

I mean, the Cavs had the first pick in the 2013 draft. They took Anthony Bennett who was out of the league after a couple years. That incompetence had nothing to do with Lebron.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Lebron can be a great player and be terrible at pushing management on what players he wants around him. That’s exactly what’s happened with the Lakers.

The biggest issue is he wants players that can help him win now and that means when he’s gone those rosters have aged and theres largely nothing left. It’s happened in all 3 spots.

And I know he had great numbers this year, but he doesn’t affect the game in all the ways he used to. He needs more help around him to be able to win.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Lebron Blames

 

[OrangeDW]

he decimates franchises by forcing the GMs to do what he wants NOW! Rich Paul is a nightmare, imo. the NBA had to step in and give the cavs a bunch of #1 picks to cover for what LeBron did to them. Look at what the Cavs did after lebron left them...decimated. Now hes doing the same to the Lakers. Pretty sure he had a huge say in their current roster construction. they had a ton of nice talent on the roster when he arrived now they have...nothing. Once he destroys that franchise's immediate future, then he'll just go somewhere else. Same would be for Miami Heat but they have Riley/Spoelstra who are smart enough to win with non-drafted players and smart draft picks. Meanwhile, LeBrn gets painted as this selfless player who gifts his time and energy to these teams and elevates them to win...his model for winning is inherently unsustainable. He forces teams to trade their future to stack whatever roster he is on for the short-term benefit...in a way that cannot last long-term by design...then leaves once they run out of gas. he's no saint.

The concept of mortgaging the future and putting all your chips in and going for it while you have a superstar is not exclusive to LeBron.

The Cavs have their only title in franchise history because of LeBron, and the Lakers also won another title with LeBron.

 

[OrangeDW]

The Cavs didn't make the playoffs in the five years before Lebron arrived. They then made the playoffs five out of the six years he was there (including getting out of the first round every time and a Finals run). In the four years he was in Miami, they were abysmal. He returns for four years, and they go to the Finals every year including a title. He leaves, they're immediately abysmal again. I just don't see how he wasn't a huge net positive for that franchise.

I mean, the Cavs had the first pick in the 2013 draft. They took Anthony Bennett who was out of the league after a couple years. That incompetence had nothing to do with Lebron.

They’re on their way now. Garland and Mobley is about as good of a young 1-2 punch as you can get.

 

[SUMinistry]

He’s always stacked his teams and while obviously he’s had a great career, he hasn’t won nearly as much as he should have with those stacked teams if he truly was the greatest player of all time (he isn’t).

 

[HOFCeluck]

He’s always stacked his teams and while obviously he’s had a great career, he hasn’t won nearly as much as he should have with those stacked teams if he truly was the greatest player of all time (he isn’t).

Literally, not figuratively the same argument haters use against Boeheim

 

[two3zone]

He’s always stacked his teams and while obviously he’s had a great career, he hasn’t won nearly as much as he should have with those stacked teams if he truly was the greatest player of all time (he isn’t).

And without Pippen I’m not sure if MJ even has one.

 

[OrangeDW]

And without Pippen I’m not sure if MJ even has one.

Yeah. I’m thinking hard to come up with an NBA champion in my lifetime that didn’t have at least 2 great players.

‘94 Rockets is probably the weakest supporting cast(IMO) off the top of my head.

 

[SUMinistry]

Literally, not figuratively the same argument haters use against Boeheim

Not sure what my argument has to do with Jim. My statement was just about LeBron not being the greatest player ever.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Jordan “only” needed three other HOF players to win those titles from 96-98.

 

[SUMinistry]

And without Pippen I’m not sure if MJ even has one.

That may be true. I do know Jordan, with arguably a top 5 shooting guard of all time and a hall of fame power forward, wouldn’t have lost to the Dallas Mavericks though.

 

[OrangeDW]

Not sure what my argument has to do with Jim. My statement was just about LeBron not being the greatest player ever.

He’s certainly in the conversation.

 

[SUMinistry]

Jordan “only” needed three other HOF players to win those titles from 96-98.

Well, he didn’t lose. LeBron has with better teams before, and that’s my point.