KenPom Rankings

[Blanko97]

No. His role is to become the best player he can and to contribute how Red thinks he can best help the team, and the program. If he is not good enough now, his job is to get so much better that he forces his way onto the floor.

That’s fair, but that’s red’s decision not womacks team. Thats the whole point of this conversation

 

[CardiacCuse]

I’m not sure why anyone player on scholarship in a sport with only 13 would think they’re not subject to be called on. This is the world of free agency and a spot on a P4 roster is valuable

like I said, I would prefer a roster of players not redshirting

but the relationship the coach has with players and potential players needs to be carefully cultivated

reds been an exceptional recruiter relative to his results...precisely bc he cares about his players and does what is best for them

you are right. IF any redshirt player is necessary they are subject to being called upon. but i think in general you see things in a much more adversarial way than it would actually go down inside a given program.

what i would take issue with is if a redshirted player became needed midseason but the coach refused to activate him...tht would be too "player friendly" in my opinoon...but hopefully we dont have to witness that scenario

 

[OrangeFoo]

So how are we doing in KenPom? Did not playing womak drop us a few spots?

 

[Blanko97]

like I said, I would prefer a roster of players not redshirting

but the relationship the coach has with players and potential players needs to be carefully cultivated

reds been an exceptional recruiter relative to his results...precisely bc he cares about his players and does what is best for them

you are right. IF any redshirt player is necessary they are subject to being called upon. but i think in general you see things in a much more adversarial way than it would actually go down inside a given program.

what i would take issue with is if a redshirted player became needed midseason but the coach refused to activate him...tht would be too "player friendly" in my opinoon...but hopefully we dont have to witness that scenario

I think its less player friendly and more bending to their team. I doubt any player doesnt want to play if given the chance but if they're getting undue influence from their handlers who would be fighting against what red wants then thats where i draw the line

 

[Surfan06001]

So how are we doing in KenPom? Did not playing womak drop us a few spots?

In my Werebackametrics Cuse is number one

 

[Archbold44]

In my Werebackametrics Cuse is number one

Over UNC?

 

[Surfan06001]

Over UNC?

NUMBER ONE

 

[sufan59]

Bart Torvik Top 10 update for 11/13/2025 (Filtered out preseason data)
1. Gonzaga- 36th in offensive efficiency, 4th in defensive efficiency

They should be feeling really good because this data includes wins over Oklahoma and Creighton. Defense is legit.

2. Illinois- 3rd in offensive efficiency, 23rd in deficiency efficiency

Keeping that defense efficiency number in the top 30 will be key for the Illini to take the next step this season. They'll be good offensively.

3. Louisville- 4th in offensive efficiency, 29th in defensive efficiency

Same case with Illinois on the defensive side of the ball. Louisville put up 96 on Kentucky shooting 44.9% overall and 32.5% from 3 on 40 shot attempts.

4. Syracuse - 167th in offensive efficiency, 1st in defensive efficiency

I know Red did say we need our defensive play to get our offense going in the preseason. I'll be honest, when I saw the roster, I imagined that these efficiency rankings would be flipped. Defense through 2 games against Q4 competition is at historic levels. The offense simply needs to be better and I think it will. The defensive efficiency number is something to watch though. Our start to the season is very similar to a team we play in a week and a half that will be listed below.

5. Indiana- 2nd in offensive efficiency, 64th in defensive efficiency

Vibes are great in Bloomington. Indiana early looks like a contender in the Big 10 with its offensive play. The defense will ultimately determine how high the ceiling is for this team.

6. Duke- 42nd in offensive efficiency, 6th in defensive efficiency

Duke will be good and the ACC favorite in my opinion at this point in the season. Always trust a team where the defense is the focal point and they have a track record of it.

7. Vanderbilt- 1st in offensive efficiency, 80th in defensive efficiency

Vibes are great in Nashville. And same deal with Indiana, the defense will ultimately determine how high the ceiling is for this team.

8. Connecticut- 17th in offensive efficiency, 15th in defensive efficiency

Like us, haven't played anyone, that is changing very soon. They will be the favorite in the Big East. If they maintain these numbers of top 20 in both offensive and defensive efficiency against better competition, they will be looking at another great season.

9. Houston- 165th in offensive efficiency, 2nd in defensive efficiency

Very similar story to Syracuse so far. An interesting game coming up against Auburn on Sunday.

10. Clemson- 21st in offensive efficiency, 18th in defensive efficiency

Clemson has not played anyone yet, but they do play Georgetown on Saturday. Encouraging early numbers for the Tigers when the sentiment was that they would be taking a step back this season. If these efficiency numbers keep up on both sides of the ball as they play better and more talented teams that likely means wins and a for sure top half finish or maybe even contender in the ACC in March.

If spirits are still high after the Drexel and Monmouth games and a good week in Las Vegas, maybe I'll do this again.

 

[Knicks411]

It's difficult to know what really to make of the defensive numbers; they've played 2 (presumably) awful teams who couldn't make a shot against them. They're first in effective FG% defense in the country, at 27.3%, which is both 1) awesome and 2) completely unsustainable. Second place in the country is 35.8%; the difference between 1 and 2 is equivalent to the difference between 2 and 70. They've also forced a ton of turnovers, which is of course good and at least the number isn't obviously going to regress like the FG% will. (it'll probably regress)

One maybe under the radar thing that's good is only 25% of opponent FGA are 3's; good for 4th in the country. It's a team with pretty good size that has a good block rate so far, so if you can keep teams from getting 3's up and force them closer to the basket where the shot blockers are, that could be something that helps even as the other team inevitably starts making some shots.

But again, these teams are awful so far. And then they will go from that to maybe the best team in the country.

 

[GoSU96]

It's difficult to know what really to make of the defensive numbers; they've played 2 (presumably) awful teams who couldn't make a shot against them. They're first in effective FG% defense in the country, at 27.3%, which is both 1) awesome and 2) completely unsustainable. Second place in the country is 35.8%; the difference between 1 and 2 is equivalent to the difference between 2 and 70. They've also forced a ton of turnovers, which is of course good and at least the number isn't obviously going to regress like the FG% will. (it'll probably regress)

One maybe under the radar thing that's good is only 25% of opponent FGA are 3's; good for 4th in the country. It's a team with pretty good size that has a good block rate so far, so if you can keep teams from getting 3's up and force them closer to the basket where the shot blockers are, that could be something that helps even as the other team inevitably starts making some shots.

But again, these teams are awful so far. And then they will go from that to maybe the best team in the country.

Somebody needs to be first

 

[orangefog]

Somebody needs to be first

 

[OrangeFoo]

It's difficult to know what really to make of the defensive numbers; they've played 2 (presumably) awful teams who couldn't make a shot against them. They're first in effective FG% defense in the country, at 27.3%, which is both 1) awesome and 2) completely unsustainable. Second place in the country is 35.8%; the difference between 1 and 2 is equivalent to the difference between 2 and 70. They've also forced a ton of turnovers, which is of course good and at least the number isn't obviously going to regress like the FG% will. (it'll probably regress)

One maybe under the radar thing that's good is only 25% of opponent FGA are 3's; good for 4th in the country. It's a team with pretty good size that has a good block rate so far, so if you can keep teams from getting 3's up and force them closer to the basket where the shot blockers are, that could be something that helps even as the other team inevitably starts making some shots.

But again, these teams are awful so far. And then they will go from that to maybe the best team in the country.

my 2c... the defensive numbers are a bit of a mirage. They are mostly due to attributes that won't translate against the entree portion of the schedule - effort and being better athletes ensured that most of the time the primary defender could stay in front of and lock up his man and when they were defending PnR the help guy could hedge and still recover to stop the roll guy.

Effort and athleticism is great, but it won't help stop a team with good schemes and equal athleticism because the primary defender won't be able to stop his guy more often than not. I still don't believe in the help D strategy that we have seen and I think that will get exposed. I also think that rebounding will be a bit of an issue as our guys get stretched by a good offensive scheme.

On the other hand... the offense should get better because George won't play this poorly (right!?) and them should shoot to their historical averages and I suspect that we will feature the Donnie + George PnR whenever we need bucket. Also we will see a lot less of Fenell and more JJ.

 

[Orangezoo]

my 2c... the defensive numbers are a bit of a mirage. They are mostly due to attributes that won't translate against the entree portion of the schedule - effort and being better athletes ensured that most of the time the primary defender could stay in front of and lock up his man and when they were defending PnR the help guy could hedge and still recover to stop the roll guy.

Effort and athleticism is great, but it won't help stop a team with good schemes and equal athleticism because the primary defender won't be able to stop his guy more often than not. I still don't believe in the help D strategy that we have seen and I think that will get exposed. I also think that rebounding will be a bit of an issue as our guys get stretched by a good offensive scheme.

On the other hand... the offense should get better because George won't play this poorly (right!?) and them should shoot to their historical averages and I suspect that we will feature the Donnie + George PnR whenever we need bucket. Also we will see a lot less of Fenell and more JJ.

The numbers can be deceiving however the eye test and the intensity, rotations, communication and things like seamless switches, screen hedging and help rotations on drives are important. In our case the numbers tie into the aforementioned like a glove which bodes well. Naturally teams will adjust tactics and require an adjustment in response to theirs in the chess match but the basics are essential and the start of this year looks night and day vs even bad competition so far.

 

[General20]

It's difficult to know what really to make of the defensive numbers; they've played 2 (presumably) awful teams who couldn't make a shot against them. They're first in effective FG% defense in the country, at 27.3%, which is both 1) awesome and 2) completely unsustainable. Second place in the country is 35.8%; the difference between 1 and 2 is equivalent to the difference between 2 and 70. They've also forced a ton of turnovers, which is of course good and at least the number isn't obviously going to regress like the FG% will. (it'll probably regress)

One maybe under the radar thing that's good is only 25% of opponent FGA are 3's; good for 4th in the country. It's a team with pretty good size that has a good block rate so far, so if you can keep teams from getting 3's up and force them closer to the basket where the shot blockers are, that could be something that helps even as the other team inevitably starts making some shots.

But again, these teams are awful so far. And then they will go from that to maybe the best team in the country.

Good analysis, I think defensive numbers will regress and offense will improve. First couple games of the year in the Dome tend to be bad shooting games for both Syracuse and the opponent.

 

[CardiacCuse]

It's difficult to know what really to make of the defensive numbers; they've played 2 (presumably) awful teams who couldn't make a shot against them. They're first in effective FG% defense in the country, at 27.3%, which is both 1) awesome and 2) completely unsustainable. Second place in the country is 35.8%; the difference between 1 and 2 is equivalent to the difference between 2 and 70. They've also forced a ton of turnovers, which is of course good and at least the number isn't obviously going to regress like the FG% will. (it'll probably regress)

One maybe under the radar thing that's good is only 25% of opponent FGA are 3's; good for 4th in the country. It's a team with pretty good size that has a good block rate so far, so if you can keep teams from getting 3's up and force them closer to the basket where the shot blockers are, that could be something that helps even as the other team inevitably starts making some shots.

But again, these teams are awful so far. And then they will go from that to maybe the best team in the country.

buffalo is 3-0 (just beat depaul) so theres also that

i think the size of the SU players (shortest player is 6'3...they basically have an NBA sized team) combined with dogged effort is going to mean good defense all season

the impact of the length of the team cant be underestimated imo

having guys like girard and carlos and playing guys like bell and taylor as forwards...plus the matador that was lampkin...made it impossible to really do much on d lately...being short/small really negatively impacts defense

one big (important) difference I have seen so far is no easy uncontested dunks/layups...when an opponent gets close to basket...SU either blocks the shot or fouls, mostly. which is huge. used to drive me crazy the last years watching opponents waltz through the line like a fashion runway

all that said, of course, will still have to see it against p4 teams to be sure

 

[CardiacCuse]

I think its less player friendly and more bending to their team. I doubt any player doesnt want to play if given the chance but if they're getting undue influence from their handlers who would be fighting against what red wants then thats where i draw the line

i think most coaches have a limit on the size of rotation that they are willing to go with. JB was like 7 or maybe 8

most dont go beyond 10

the current limit is 15 scholllies...so basically by default youre going to have 3 4 or 5 players that dont play...so better to fill those spots than leave them as empty chairs imo...even if they transfer out so what...theres still a benefit to them being on the roster even if they dont play

and furthermore, I think its a fair trade if a coach KNOWS he isnt going to play a player to allow him to redshirt and save eiligibilty

 

[DomeHolmes]

my 2c... the defensive numbers are a bit of a mirage. They are mostly due to attributes that won't translate against the entree portion of the schedule - effort and being better athletes ensured that most of the time the primary defender could stay in front of and lock up his man and when they were defending PnR the help guy could hedge and still recover to stop the roll guy.

Effort and athleticism is great, but it won't help stop a team with good schemes and equal athleticism because the primary defender won't be able to stop his guy more often than not. I still don't believe in the help D strategy that we have seen and I think that will get exposed. I also think that rebounding will be a bit of an issue as our guys get stretched by a good offensive scheme.

On the other hand... the offense should get better because George won't play this poorly (right!?) and them should shoot to their historical averages and I suspect that we will feature the Donnie + George PnR whenever we need bucket. Also we will see a lot less of Fenell and more JJ.

I don’t think many people expect us to stay number one.

But people rightly are psyched we are not giving up 82 to Lemoyne and 95 to Youngstown state to start the year.

 

[General20]

buffalo is 3-0 (just beat depaul) so theres also that

i think the size of the SU players (shortest player is 6'3...they basically have an NBA sized team) combined with dogged effort is going to mean good defense all season

the impact of the length of the team cant be underestimated imo

having guys like girard and carlos and playing guys like bell and taylor as forwards...plus the matador that was lampkin...made it impossible to really do much on d lately...being short/small really negatively impacts defense

one big (important) difference I have seen so far is no easy uncontested dunks/layups...when an opponent gets close to basket...SU either blocks the shot or fouls, mostly. which is huge. used to drive me crazy the last years watching opponents waltz through the line like a fashion runway

all that said, of course, will still have to see it against p4 teams to be sure

Biggest difference I've seen is how far our bigs hedge off their man to prevent dribble penetration and block passing lanes. They are all so quick, long, and such high jumpers that they can close down big distances. Usually when you see a really good D that feels like they have a 6th man on the court its because they have guys who are quick and long enough yo hedge way off their man but still recover.

 

[McCuse]

I don’t think many people expect us to stay number one.

But people rightly are psyched we are not giving up 82 to Lemoyne and 95 to Youngstown state to start the year.

Amen to that!

 

[RedtheGOB]

Saying again what I said in the offseason that I think our scheduling this year has been great.

We have a team that has 5 freshman and sophomores with insanely high ceilings. When that train gets rolling the right direction it can be unstoppable. Starting the season the right way by destroying opponents is the best thing you can do for the confidence of the young guys.

They’ll be drinking the koolaid same as us and let’s be real this is the most confident team we’ve seen in 10 years on both ends. We don’t need to wait to see if they’re afraid, they’re not. I’m afraid for the other team if they get on Sadiq or Donnie or Kyle’s bad side for real.

They will get on the court with #1 Houston and Believe. And if it doesn’t go their way they’ll say we just faced down the best and we can compete with them on both ends.

Let’s see what the 3 point % look like for Drexel after Saturday. Drexel wants to shoot 50 3’s and if we run them off their spots it’s another step in the right direction.

 

[Blanko97]

my 2c... the defensive numbers are a bit of a mirage. They are mostly due to attributes that won't translate against the entree portion of the schedule - effort and being better athletes ensured that most of the time the primary defender could stay in front of and lock up his man and when they were defending PnR the help guy could hedge and still recover to stop the roll guy.

Effort and athleticism is great, but it won't help stop a team with good schemes and equal athleticism because the primary defender won't be able to stop his guy more often than not. I still don't believe in the help D strategy that we have seen and I think that will get exposed. I also think that rebounding will be a bit of an issue as our guys get stretched by a good offensive scheme.

On the other hand... the offense should get better because George won't play this poorly (right!?) and them should shoot to their historical averages and I suspect that we will feature the Donnie + George PnR whenever we need bucket. Also we will see a lot less of Fenell and more JJ.

It’s an improvement. They had both those advantages last year and still sucked on D.

 

[OrangeFoo]

It’s an improvement. They had both those advantages last year and still sucked on D.

Heh? There is no way they had the the athleticism advantage last year with the dudes they were running out. Not to knock the guy... but Eddie Lampkin vs Kyle/Freeman/ White is a no contest when it comes to athleticism. And the effort was certainly not there.

 

[Blanko97]

Heh? There is no way they had the the athleticism advantage last year with the dudes they were running out. Not to knock the guy... but Eddie Lampkin vs Kyle/Freeman/ White is a no contest when it comes to athleticism. And the effort was certainly not there.

Compared to the Binghamton’s of the world? They certainly were more athletic but just so poorly coached they couldn’t cover a wall

 

[Sbucketball]

Heh? There is no way they had the the athleticism advantage last year with the dudes they were running out. Not to knock the guy... but Eddie Lampkin vs Kyle/Freeman/ White is a no contest when it comes to athleticism. And the effort was certainly not there.

Lampkin remains the biggest mystery to me from the Red era. Complete opposite of how Red has said he wants to play. My theory is it was the DJ Burns effect, which is crazy if true.

 

[RedtheGOB]

Lampkin remains the biggest mystery to me from the Red era. Complete opposite of how Red has said he wants to play. My theory is it was the DJ Burns effect, which is crazy if true.

That is not as much of a mystery for me. Autry got burned real bad his freshman year carrying 4 centers none of which were big and all got hurt.

He saw Eddie and figured well this guy is big and in our price range. Gotta get him picked up fast. I don't think Autry thought he had a choice. Thought he had to act quick and got burned.