Kent Syverud letter to Miner

[Millhouse]

Fine, stadiums are certainty and traditionally within the acknowledged sphere of goods and services provided by public entities. Again, just like parks and museums. There is nothing unusual in them being public facilities. Sort of like a the War Memorial, an Onondaga County facility in the heart of the City of Syracuse.

i guess i bristle at sporting events lumped in there with parks. poor people get to go to parks and use it just like anyone else. springsteen concerts are pretty pricy

 

[TexanMark]

You know sometimes you have to just go for it. If Melvin Eggers didn't approve of the Dome...we would be playing in some crappy, erector set stadium out on Hopkins Rd or the Fairgrounds. Basketball would be in Manley Field House or some newish 12-13k multi-use arena downtown.

I think Miner is a misguided fool to turn off the $200M

 

[Millhouse]

You know sometimes you have to just go for it. If Melvin Eggers didn't approve of the Dome...we would be playing in some crappy, erector set stadium out on Hopkins Rd or the Fairground. Basketball would be in Manley Field House or some newish 12-13k multi-use arena downtown.

I think Miner is a misguided fool to turn off the $200M

of course the dome was good for SU sports. no one is arguing that a new 500m space station wouldn't be good for SU sports.

 

[supp]

You know sometimes you have to just go for it. If Melvin Eggers didn't approve of the Dome...we would be playing in some crappy, erector set stadium out on Hopkins Rd or the Fairground. Basketball would be in Manley Field House or some newish 12-13k multi-use arena downtown.

I think Miner is a misguided fool to turn off the $200M

Of course you think that because as Millhouse has pointed out before you're the special interest here. If they decided to fund this stadium with your Air Force pension fund, I'm not sure you'd be so gung-ho about it.

 

[xc84]

Not exactly a dynamite analogy. I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that education is not a public good. Making sure that we have a well-informed, highly skilled, prepared for the future society is to all our benefit. Providing public funds for a private university to have a state-of-the art stadium to schmooze their donors and ticket holders to have seats and concourses that can contain their fat asses is not quite something that's to all our benefit.

You misconstrued my post. Simply saying I should not have to pay school taxes if my kid goes to a private school or if I have no kids in school is not the same as saying we should not have public schools or education is not a public good. In fact, when kids go to private schools, the district benefits by having reduced costs.

 

[xc84]

Vikings stadium is a version of what should be done here on steroids.

Multi-use, multi-configurable, a huge part of the stands push back in order to allow a baseball configuration.

They are building it out to FIFA standards.

Closed roof, but lots of glass to open it up.

Again the last two major Euro facilities are 50K, grass field, retractable, multi-configuration for less than $500M.

I am ok with all that except the grass field.

 

[Moontan]

In fact, when kids go to private schools, the district benefits by having reduced costs.

That's not entirely true.

While costs go down, so does the school's (and possibly district's) share of education funds. School taxes are there to (hopefully) ensure an agreed upon level of education. This in theory provides citizens with skills to allow them to work which helps the community at large.

I'm in favor of a voucher system which will allow parents of private school students to apply a portion (50%?) of their school tax funds to their private school tuition. We're getting off track here, so I'll stop.

 

[TexanMark]

Of course you think that because as Millhouse has pointed out before you're the special interest here. If they decided to fund this stadium with your Air Force pension fund, I'm not sure you'd be so gung-ho about it.

Without SU sports and Syracuse University...Syracuse would be a big Utica. It is the one thing the city and CNY has going for it. Most people in the US have heard of the University and sports teams.

I'd rather see Onondaga County get the $200M than to see it go over to Buffalo or Albany. You take the money, study the proposal and either do it or ask the state to approve an alternative plan.

 

[xc84]

That's not entirely true.

While costs go down, so does the school's (and possibly district's) share of education funds. School taxes are there to (hopefully) ensure an agreed upon level of education. This in theory provides citizens with skills to allow them to work which helps the community at large.

I'm in favor of a voucher system which will allow parents of private school students to apply a portion (50%?) of their school tax funds to their private school tuition. We're getting off track here, so I'll stop.

I just used it as an analogy related to how individual preferences don't make much difference sometimes. And again, I made no comment about he value of education in our society. I didn't intend to start a new thread.

 

[xc84]

Without SU sports and Syracuse University...Syracuse would be a big Utica. It is the one thing the city and CNY has going for it. Most people in the US have heard of the University and sports teams.

I'd rather see Onondaga County get the $200M than to see it go over to Buffalo or Albany. You take the money, study the proposal and either do it or ask the state to approve an alternative plan.

Bam! And there is nothing wrong with saying it!

 

[supp]

Without SU sports and Syracuse University...Syracuse would be a big Utica. It is the one thing the city and CNY has going for it. Most people in the US have heard of the University and sports teams.

I'd rather see Onondaga County get the $200M than to see it go over to Buffalo or Albany. You take the money, study the proposal and either do it or ask the state to approve an alternative plan.

But the underlying assumption you're making here is that the current Dome is somehow a liability to the university and its standing. It's simply not. Listen to what Boeheim had to say on his radio show. It's a liability if you're a fan with a big fat ass. Otherwise, it continues to serve its purpose (and continues to serve this community, if you like) fabulously. Should the taxpayer be on the line for hundreds of millions of dollars because some admins at SU want rather than need a new stadium? Is it to the area's long-term benefit to continue to be a one-horse town? Would that development money be better spent on something else that might expand and diversify the local economy? I think these are all legitimate questions. The problem is that the board hero, Mahoney, was looking for a project to sell to the governor and without having any ideas of her own simply went to SU and asked them for their wishlist. Without any consultation with anyone, she took that wish up the line. I'm sorry but I guess I expect more out of my local government officials, especially when it comes to spending my money.

 

[xc84]

But the underlying assumption you're making here is that the current Dome is somehow a liability to the university and its standing.

Not it's not. A new dome will be a way better building than the old dome. That's the underlying assumption.

 

[supp]

Not it's not. A new dome will be a way better building than the old dome. That's the underlying assumption.

Yay!! But do we need it? Is it the best expenditure of state and local funds?

 

[xc84]

Yay!! But do we need it? Is it the best expenditure of state and local funds?

No we don't "need it" but I think it is a good use of state and local funds. It would be a great project and catalyst. It does not have to be "the best use" to be done. I said this before, if you have a list of projects and #1 is rejected and #2 gets funding, you don't reject #2 because you didn't get "the best" one funded. You go with it. The dome is the best building built in CNY in the last 50 years. The new dome will be the best for the following 50.

 

[xc84]

We all have preferences as what the public should fund. For some it's bike trails. Others wail that bike trails are a big waste. Some say state parks. Others say state parks are a waste of real estate and reduce the taxable property an an area. Some like trains, others hate trains. I like this stadium concept. I would be happy to have my tax dollars go to it instead of other things.

 

[supp]

No we don't "need it" but I think it is a good use of state and local funds. It would be a great project and catalyst. It does not have to be "the best use" to be done. I said this before, if you have a list of projects and #1 is rejected and #2 gets funding, you don't reject #2 because you didn't get "the best" one funded. You go with it. The dome is the best building built in CNY in the last 50 years. The new dome will be the best for the following 50.

Who was it that said the people against this project have a "mill town" mentality? I can't imagine a more negative, pessimistic attitude about this town than the one you've expressed above.

 

[Crusty]

Not true. Stadiums were part of education. The Greek gymnasium was a place of intellectual pursuits as much as athletic ones. That's why high schools in Germany are still called gymnasiums. That's why poetry was an event in the Olympics. Doubtful, though, that the stadium serves this double purpose for us today.

Lot of money in poetry these days.

 

[Crusty]

Who was it that said the people against this project have a "mill town" mentality? I can't imagine a more negative, pessimistic attitude about this town than the one you've expressed above.

Huh?

 

[xc84]

Who was it that said the people against this project have a "mill town" mentality? I can't imagine a more negative, pessimistic attitude about this town than the one you've expressed above.

That makes no sense. It happens every day in government and business. It's not pessimistic. People like you are always coming up with binary arguments. "We shoulld do ______________ before we build a stadium" as if more than one thing can't be done at a time or that picking one thing automatically means you can never do the other.

 

[TexanMark]

But the underlying assumption you're making here is that the current Dome is somehow a liability to the university and its standing. It's simply not. Listen to what Boeheim had to say on his radio show. It's a liability if you're a fan with a big fat ass. Otherwise, it continues to serve its purpose (and continues to serve this community, if you like) fabulously. Should the taxpayer be on the line for hundreds of millions of dollars because some admins at SU want rather than need a new stadium? Is it to the area's long-term benefit to continue to be a one-horse town? Would that development money be better spent on something else that might expand and diversify the local economy? I think these are all legitimate questions. The problem is that the board hero, Mahoney, was looking for a project to sell to the governor and without having any ideas of her own simply went to SU and asked them for their wishlist. Without any consultation with anyone, she took that wish up the line. I'm sorry but I guess I expect more out of my local government officials, especially when it comes to spending my money.

Coach Boeheim doesn't walk up the stairs in the 300's...they are narrow, steep, and with no handrails. The Dome can be a sweatbox anytime the temps go above 70-75 degrees. The Dome is functional but also obsolete. A makeover would generate other issues. The University isn't giving nothing...they plan on being the primary tenant and is contributing money. The community as a whole will use the new Dome for other uses too. I have not seen one good gov't cash giveaway plan for CNY that will create jobs...with this at least you get something concrete and will help regional pride and name recognition.

 

[Crusty]

Coach Boeheim doesn't walk up the stairs in the 300's...they are narrow, steep, and with no handrails. The Dome can be a sweatbox anytime the temps go above 70-75 degrees. The Dome is functional but also obsolete. A makeover would generate other issues. The University isn't giving nothing...they plan on being the primary tenant and is contributing money. The community as a whole will use the new Dome for other uses too. I have not seen one good gov't cash giveaway plan for CNY that will create jobs...with this at least you get something concrete and will help regional pride and name recognition.

AND it will pay for itself!

 

[supp]

That makes no sense. It happens every day in government and business. It's not pessimistic. People like you are always coming up with binary arguments. "We shoulld do ______________ before we build a stadium" as if more than one thing can't be done at a time or that picking one thing automatically means you can never do the other.

Who said that? How often do $500 million dollar projects come down the pipeline here? For that kind of money, there should be some consideration about the long-term economic impact. This is $500 million to replace a functioning building, one that has already put Syracuse on the map, so that seniors and fat people aren't straining themselves to get to their seats according to Mark? That's an awful lot of money for a very small group of people. Who's being small-minded here?

I've said my peace. You can carry on pretending that this is some great leap into the future for Syracuse as a community. It's a boondoggle, plain and simple.

 

[Millhouse]

Coach Boeheim doesn't walk up the stairs in the 300's...they are narrow, steep, and with no handrails. The Dome can be a sweatbox anytime the temps go above 70-75 degrees. The Dome is functional but also obsolete. A makeover would generate other issues. The University isn't giving nothing...they plan on being the primary tenant and is contributing money. The community as a whole will use the new Dome for other uses too. I have not seen one good gov't cash giveaway plan for CNY that will create jobs...with this at least you get something concrete and will help regional pride and name recognition.

Those are some expensive handrails.

 

[CINYer]

Who said that? How often do $500 million dollar projects come down the pipeline here? For that kind of money, there should be some consideration about the long-term economic impact. This is $500 million to replace a functioning building, one that has already put Syracuse on the map, so that seniors and fat people aren't straining themselves to get to their seats according to Mark? That's an awful lot of money for a very small group of people. Who's being small-minded here?

I've said my peace. You can carry on pretending that this is some great leap into the future for Syracuse as a community. It's a boondoggle, plain and simple.

Supp, you have good points, but they aren't the only points. I wasn't an economics major, just using a little common sense. $500 millioon, you figure out how to get it done. The Dome comes down(Jobs=money), new dome built(more jobs=more money). I know I over simplified that, but to deal with the issues that you are referring to(and they are vast, important, and heart-breaking in some cases), need more than to just throw money at programs that are only temporary fixes, those conversations have to happen at the National level because in all States and most Counties, they are dealing with the same problems and States are going to have to work with the Fed. to get it done. That money would have provided an immeadiate boost to the City/County economy, an I believe would have put Syracuse in line for some events that generally would bypass us. The Stadium was/is more important than most realize, once ground breaks for the new stadium, watch and see the new businesses that sprout up around it. IMO, you do this project, while still continuing to work on those larger issues...:noidea:

 

[xc84]

Who said that? How often do $500 million dollar projects come down the pipeline here? For that kind of money, there should be some consideration about the long-term economic impact.

LOL... you made my point for me. I guess we should have taken the other project the state was going to help fund with a $200M grant. Oh yeah, there wasn't one.

And obviously there is long-term economic impact when you have hundreds of thousands of people attending events for decades. I guess you think the dome has not had positive economic impact. Glad the state agreed back when the dome was built. Thank you Mr. Carey.