Kent Syverud letter to Miner

[CINYer]

Breaking windows helps the window maker but hurts whoever would've built something else. That person might be in a different state or county. Fires and earthquakes don't make us richer.

What did I suggest?

 

[Millhouse]

What did I suggest?

You said tearing down the dome creates jobs. It doesn't. It switches them

 

[CINYer]

We shall agree to disagree, I beleive in multi-tasking. Having people work construction, does not take away from any other potential business' from getting started. It's really quite odd though, those workers are going to all of a sudden stop working on current projects to get that one done? I get it, you don't like the deal, but don't try to convince me that your crap is sugar. Like I said, we are of different opinions, it's cool. I just happen to think my opinion is the right one. There are choices and priorities, and there are only a select few who are calling the shots, like I've stated before, it's bigger than just the Stadium, there is a more wholistic approach that is/should be considered. Bottom line, as we see, no project, not much money for the community. You can "If" all day, doesn't change the fact that decisions are going to be made that you don't agree with...I got an "If" for you...If a bullfrog had pockets, he'd carry pistols and shoot snakes...think about that as you try to change the world:noidea:Oh Lord:rolling:

 

[IthacaMatt]

I don't disagree with you...Just wanted to state that she wasn't owned by the Locals. I am not originally from Syracuse, moved here from NYC (Brooklyn). I've lived here for over 20 years, with only a break for Military service. I personally think people in Syracuse think too small.It's almost like they expect the 1950's to be rolling around again. When I heard about the Stadium, I was all for it. I was recently in Baltimore, and had a chance to visit Camden Yards, I would have loved to see them do that to the area, it would have been a big deal, and I know that it is pretty irrelevant now, but the capacity of the stadium was well over 50k.

Who is she owned by, then? The girls in her book club? They all seem to get big jobs in City government for which they are totally unqualified (although they are all pretty ...). She seems like a spiteful dolt. If it's not her idea, she craps all over it. I can't believe Cuomo appointed her to a commission and then she wrote that op ed talking about how his plans to fix upstate economies were all smoke and mirrors without addressing pension issues. Politically tone deaf.

 

[CINYer]

Who is she owned by, then? The girls in her book club? They all seem to get big jobs in City government for which they are totally unqualified (although they are all pretty ...). She seems like a spiteful dolt. If it's not her idea, she craps all over it. I can't believe Cuomo appointed her to a commission and then she wrote that op ed talking about how his plans to fix upstate economies were all smoke and mirrors without addressing pension issues.

What is so hard to understand? I stated that She is not owned by ALL Unions. Not ALL Unions are of the Construction trades. What ever malice you have for working people is misguided. People in Unions aren't putting themselves in these positions, and Most (not All) Union members are struggling to maintain benefits and are living paycheck to paycheck. Your anger is displaced, and you do a diservice to those people who provide a service to the community and would have benefited from the project had it moved forward. Don't let your politics get in the way of how you really feel.

 

[IthacaMatt]

What is so hard to understand? I stated that She is not owned by ALL Unions. Not ALL Unions are of the Construction trades. What ever malice you have for working people is misguided. People in Unions aren't putting themselves in these positions, and Most (not All) Union members are struggling to maintain benefits and are living paycheck to paycheck. Your anger is displaced, and you do a diservice to those people who provide a service to the community and would have benefited from the project had it moved forward. Don't let your politics get in the way of how you really feel.

You are not talking to my post. I said nothing against unions. I said she's an idiot and lack political common sense.

As for your impassioned defense of unions, the public employees union is a big part of why the cost of government is out of control. If people aren't willing to pay taxes, then public employees have to be prepared to lose jobs or face cuts. Too many public service employees have (a) not treated their jobs with respect, and (b) have ripped off the retirement system.

 

[TheCusian]

The money will be spent somewhere. Tax money is used in all sorts of ways, often benefiting one community or segment of the population over others. If you don't like how it's spent, vote for someone else.

This deal cannot be a bad one in that it's money flowing into central NY that wouldn't otherwise. Any additional ongoing revenue would be gravy. There is no other argument to be made at this time with this governor.

 

[TheCusian]

You are not talking to my post. I said nothing against unions. I said she's an idiot and lack political common sense. As for your impassioned defense of unions, the public employees union is a big part of why the cost of government is out of control. If people aren't willing to pay taxes, then public employees have to be prepared to lose jobs or face cuts. Too many public service employees have (a) not treated their jobs with respect, and (b) have ripped off the retirement system.

Careful. My wife works her a$$ off for this state and her students at Cortland. Say what you want about benefits, pensions, etc. - but don't paint all state employees with that big brush.

 

[CINYer]

Careful. My wife works her a$$ off for this state and her students at Cortland. Say what you want about benefits, pensions, etc. - but don't paint all state employees with that big brush.

Exactly, not all Unions are construction trades, and not all Unions are public employees...smh, the only point I'm trying to get across is about assumptions...we just flat out shouldn't make them in most cases. Union members get a bad rap, but they work their butts off to provide for their families like everyone else does. It's amazing to me the disdain for Unions, when this Country was built on the backs of Union workers.

 

[CINYer]

You are not talking to my post. I said nothing against unions. I said she's an idiot and lack political common sense.

As for your impassioned defense of unions, the public employees union is a big part of why the cost of government is out of control. If people aren't willing to pay taxes, then public employees have to be prepared to lose jobs or face cuts. Too many public service employees have (a) not treated their jobs with respect, and (b) have ripped off the retirement system.

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I don't disagree with you...Just wanted to state that she wasn't owned by the Locals. I am not originally from Syracuse, moved here from NYC (Brooklyn). I've lived here for over 20 years, with only a break for Military service. I personally think people in Syracuse think too small.It's almost like they expect the 1950's to be rolling around again. When I heard about the Stadium, I was all for it. I was recently in Baltimore, and had a chance to visit Camden Yards, I would have loved to see them do that to the area, it would have been a big deal, and I know that it is pretty irrelevant now, but the capacity of the stadium was well over 50k.

Who is she owned by, then? The girls in her book club? They all seem to get big jobs in City government for which they are totally unqualified (although they are all pretty ...). She seems like a spiteful dolt. If it's not her idea, she craps all over it. I can't believe Cuomo appointed her to a commission and then she wrote that op ed talking about how his plans to fix upstate economies were all smoke and mirrors without addressing pension issues. Politically tone deaf.
Last edited: 24 minutes ago

What you stated is listed above. My statement to the other poster(forgive me for not recalling name, to lazy to look back right now), was that She(Mayor) was not owned by all Unions, so yes, I guess I was talking to your post as well, as you quoted me to respond to. I get it, I get the politics in large organizations, but as in all organizations, no matter how much oversight, there will be some element of corruption and cronyism. I don't like it where ever it is, that's just reality, you work like hell to change the system, but don't come at me with your opinions about what you think, I'm out there fighting the fight every day!

 

[IthacaMatt]

Exactly, not all Unions are construction trades, and not all Unions are public employees...smh, the only point I'm trying to get across is about assumptions...we just flat out shouldn't make them in most cases. Union members get a bad rap, but they work their butts off to provide for their families like everyone else does. It's amazing to me the disdain for Unions, when this Country was built on the backs of Union workers.

All you need is to read stories about police and firefighters retiring on pensions based on $150,000 base pay due to "working" 80+ hours per week during the 3 years that sets their retirement. Or read about local politicians who are collecting pension from one job while they work at another. Or teachers who can't be fired because they have tenure. Or the layers of larded up administration in our schools. It used to be that teachers were underpaid when they made only $25,000 a year or so. Now that they make closer to $75,000, I don't think there's any question that they are overpaid.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Careful. My wife works her a$$ off for this state and her students at Cortland. Say what you want about benefits, pensions, etc. - but don't paint all state employees with that big brush.

I work my a$$ off too, and I don't have a pension with the retirement health benefits that public employees all have. They're pretty much the only ones left in America with them, in case you haven't noticed.

 

[CINYer]

I work my a$$ off too, and I don't have a pension with the retirement health benefits that public employees all have. They're pretty much the only ones left in America with them, in case you haven't noticed.

So your response to that is, to get pissed off at the working people who still have the balls to stand up and fight for what they rightfully deserve instead of you fighting for your own? Sad man,sad...Oh Lord

BTW, you keep talking about public employees, not all Unions represent Public employees..there are all sorts of Unions out there...I happen to work with Healthcare workers...they are not public employees.

 

[Crusty]

What is so hard to understand? I stated that She is not owned by ALL Unions. Not ALL Unions are of the Construction trades. What ever malice you have for working people is misguided. People in Unions aren't putting themselves in these positions, and Most (not All) Union members are struggling to maintain benefits and are living paycheck to paycheck. Your anger is displaced, and you do a diservice to those people who provide a service to the community and would have benefited from the project had it moved forward. Don't let your politics get in the way of how you really feel.

I don't think you get it. It's not the union members that the public resents it is the unhealthy bargain between the union leaders and public representatives (at every level in some states like NY). I realize that it takes two to tango and the pols are every bit as responsible for the PERS pensions issues. Just as the auto companies are every bit as responsible for the demise of the Big 3, so are the pols for the pension issues.

I grew up in a union household (as most who grew up in NYS back then probably did) and I respect honest unions. However, I witnessed the last 50 years when competitive pressures and other factors sent union membership plummeting and they turned to organizing where there was no competition - government. They got undue influence and managed to raid the public coffers.

The bargain used to be that public employees made less because they had security of employment and outsized retirement benefits. Now they get paid as much or more than the private sector and still have outsized defined benefit plans and medical benefits as well. As a consequence governments at every level face gigantic unfunded liabilities which the taxpayers have to make good. Budgets get stressed and there is no money for anything else. Is it any wonder why the city gets its single largest revenue from the state?

Then the labor lawyer Syracuse mayor screws up a quarter of a billion dollar state project because she wants to make sure that union labor is used. Rather too much I think. When do the rest of the Syracuse citizens get a fair shake from this Mayor?

 

[CINYer]

I don't think you get it. It's not the union members that the public resents it is the unhealthy bargain between the union leaders and public representatives (at every level in some states like NY). I realize that it takes two to tango and the pols are every bit as responsible for the PERS pensions issues. Just as the auto companies are every bit as responsible for the demise of the Big 3, so are the pols for the pension issues.

I grew up in a union household (as most who grew up in NYS back then probably did) and I respect honest unions. However, I witnessed the last 50 years when competitive pressures and other factors sent union membership plummeting and they turned to organizing where there was no competition - government. They got undue influence and managed to raid the public coffers.

The bargain used to be that public employees made less because they had security of employment and outsized retirement benefits. Now they get paid as much or more than the private sector and still have outsized defined benefit plans and medical benefits as well. As a consequence governments at every level face gigantic unfunded liabilities which the taxpayers have to make good. Budgets get stressed and there is no money for anything else. Is it any wonder why the city gets its single largest revenue from the state?

Then the labor lawyer Syracuse mayor screws up a quarter of a billion dollar state project because she wants to make sure that union labor is used. Rather too much I think. When do the rest of the Syracuse citizens get a fair shake from this Mayor?

I get you feel a certain way, but I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I don't like to be marginalized, generalized, or sterotyped in any fashion. You have every right to feel they way you feel. Where there is some truth to what you say, it's much more complicated than what you make it in regards to the Public employees, but as I stated, not all Unions are comprised of public employees. I don't want to continue to hijack this thread, because I never wanted to be one of those type of posters, I get what you are saying, but your opinion about one aspect of Unions you know, should not diparage the others that you don't. Be well my friend.

 

[Millhouse]

Careful. My wife works her a$$ off for this state and her students at Cortland. Say what you want about benefits, pensions, etc. - but don't paint all state employees with that big brush.

Oh big deal. My wife teaches too and the benefits are nuts. If something can't continue, it won't. I don't expect the pension to be there in thirty years (she is 34).

 

[Millhouse]

No. The post retirement benefits and public assistance rolls are the killers. Nothing is gained from theses expenditures. These projects produce jobs, and well paying jobs at that. They spawn start up companies, which employ new workers. The people working on the projects buy local goods and services. Out of town works stay ot local hotels long term. Money is spent, money is made, and ALL of it is taxed, at state and local levels, again and again and again and again, replenishing the coffers.

You are making the same broken windows mistake. Just google broken windows fallacy. The money comes from somewhere. You ignore what that money wouldve been used for otherwise.

If you're right why stop at 500 mil, why stop with dome. Burn the whole city down and watch all the spending and work to rebuild!

 

[Millhouse]

Realistically that money has now gone to pay for an amphitheater in Solvay that I don't care about and in other areas of the state that I nor my family will most probably never see nor care about either. If SU decides to move ahead and build a stadium anyway I can now expect to subsidize more for it while watching my tax $ go to subsidize projects in other parts of the state . Since when in the real world do the people who really want a project, ever pay for it? And I missed the checklist allowing me to chose what I want my tax $ to support. I agree that the dome is still servicable, an asset and that I will miss it but I also know that I replaced my 20 year old appliances despite them still working when the state gave credits for purchases of appliances a few years ago. It was a deal to me, worth replacing early rather than snub the subsidy that would cost me decent $ by waiting. Was it fair to people who had just bought appliances and wouldn't benefit by replacing them or to tax paying renters who don't own appliances -no - but what moral, ethical, financial victory would I gain by turning down the subsidy because the people profiting from it weren't the people paying for it? No tax $ are saved by eliminating these initiatives, it would just be diverted to other projects unless the allocations were affected earlier and further up the pipeline. It's spent one way or another, once allocated. The process itself would have to be changed. In the appliance example, there was money " left over" so they extended the deadline till it was all spent.

How much was the cat theater? Did they spend 400 on it?

 

[Crusty]

I get you feel a certain way, but I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I don't like to be marginalized, generalized, or sterotyped in any fashion. You have every right to feel they way you feel. Where there is some truth to what you say, it's much more complicated than what you make it in regards to the Public employees, but as I stated, not all Unions are comprised of public employees. I don't want to continue to hijack this thread, because I never wanted to be one of those type of posters, I get what you are saying, but your opinion about one aspect of Unions you know, should not diparage the others that you don't. Be well my friend.

Certainly do not mean to marginalize what you said. I was merely trying to explain that I think the public feels frustrated about the public employee unions debacle. Unfortunately, others will get tarred by the same brush but that goes for business or any other group as well. Wall Street is not all big banks for example.

Since this is an issue that involves the Mayor who is a labor lawyer, the frustration level is understandably high.

 

[Millhouse]

No. But the University has invested in Syracuse. The School of Architecture Warehouse renovation downtown helped jump start reclamation of the near west side redevelopment along West Fayette and the surrounding neighborhood. Syracuse Stage and the Connective Corridor is having an impact along East Genesse. Syracuse University has invested in the City School District with Say Yes. It's not a one way street here.

500 million is a lot of corridors and warehouses

 

[CousCuse]

You are making the same broken windows mistake. Just google broken windows fallacy. The money comes from somewhere. You ignore what that money wouldve been used for otherwise.

If you're right why stop at 500 mil, why stop with dome. Burn the whole city down and watch all the spending and work to rebuild!

That's the best idea I've heard you come up with yet.

 

[Millhouse]

Realistically that money has now gone to pay for an amphitheater in Solvay that I don't care about and in other areas of the state that I nor my family will most probably never see nor care about either. If SU decides to move ahead and build a stadium anyway I can now expect to subsidize more for it while watching my tax $ go to subsidize projects in other parts of the state . Since when in the real world do the people who really want a project, ever pay for it? And I missed the checklist allowing me to chose what I want my tax $ to support. I agree that the dome is still servicable, an asset and that I will miss it but I also know that I replaced my 20 year old appliances despite them still working when the state gave credits for purchases of appliances a few years ago. It was a deal to me, worth replacing early rather than snub the subsidy that would cost me decent $ by waiting. Was it fair to people who had just bought appliances and wouldn't benefit by replacing them or to tax paying renters who don't own appliances -no - but what moral, ethical, financial victory would I gain by turning down the subsidy because the people profiting from it weren't the people paying for it? No tax $ are saved by eliminating these initiatives, it would just be diverted to other projects unless the allocations were affected earlier and further up the pipeline. It's spent one way or another, once allocated. The process itself would have to be changed. In the appliance example, there was money " left over" so they extended the deadline till it was all spent.

It still didn't have to be a stadium. It's terrible use of public money even if you just throw your hands up and say it might as well be us that spends it.

 

[Millhouse]

That's the best idea I've heard you come up with yet.

Great Leap Forward!

 

[TheCusian]

I work my a$$ off too, and I don't have a pension with the retirement health benefits that public employees all have. They're pretty much the only ones left in America with them, in case you haven't noticed.

Private jobs have eroded health benefits and retirement health benefits, so public sector jobs should too? Really? Unions have been weakened or are not existent in private, so they are evil when the stick up for their workers in the public sector? It's not the workers fault - almost all sectors have seen a productivity increase in the last 20 years.

Re-point your flame thrower at your employer, not at public sector employees.

 

[TheCusian]

Oh big deal. My wife teaches too and the benefits are nuts. If something can't continue, it won't. I don't expect the pension to be there in thirty years (she is 34).

I was speaking more to the comment that public employees are lazy. I agree - there is a lot of pressure to destroy the benefits for public employees. I don't expect it to continue either.