Kentucky - UCLA

[AlpharettaCuse]

Considering we can't even get one ESPN Top 100 it's crazy...

We may get the Top 40 kid.

Not sure that's a very important distinction. In any event, I think the overall point was that freshmen have as much impact on the game now as they ever have for obvious reasons. Ball, Fox, Monk, Markkanen et al were no exception this year.

Sure they can. Ball and Leaf made a huge impact. Ball, Monk, Fox were all Top 10 kids coming in. Does UCLA have any Top 1o kids coming in? Kentucky had 3 if you include Bam Adabayo. UCLA had 2 in Ball and Leaf. I saw UCLA lost another freshman to the NBA draft. UCLA is losing their Top 4 players, plus Ike Agnibogu. Hard to replace that talent with freshmen. UCLA was 15-17 the year before Ball and Leaf got there. I'm not counting on freshmen to make them an NCAA tournament team.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

But you know who was... oregon

What conference they in?

Right. Nice run for the Ducks, who lost to an ACC team. First FF for a PAC 12 team in 10 years?

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Guys UNC won it. The ACC did fine this year.

Exactly.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

The original discussion of freshmen came about when Alpharetta dismissed UCLA's prospects for next year despite the fact that they have four rotational players returning coupled with four top 50 recruits coming in.

Michigan State had 4 Top 50 recruits coming in last year and barely made the NCAA Tournament at 19-14. And they had Mile Bridges. And one of the greatest coaches ever. One of the other 3 made a big impact-Nick Ward. The other two, Langford and Winston didn't produce much. It's unlikely that all 4 will contribute a lot, and even more unlikely they have a Top 10 NBA draft pick coming in. Matt Moyer was a Top 50 kid and he didn't even play.

 

[HOFCeluck]

It's widely regarded that the best conference in 2014 was the American Athletic Conference.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

It's widely regarded that the best conference in 2014 was the American Athletic Conference.

Yeah...nobody believes that. Lol.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Yeah...nobody believes that. Lol.

Then what made the ACC great this year?

 

[bpo57]

I don't even remember the Alpharetta post, so I'm totally out of bounds.

Re: UCLA next season--you know more about their roster than I do, but I doubt the incoming frosh are as good as Ball and Leaf.

I doubt that too and never said otherwise but Alpharetta was predicting doom for them when they have two McD AAs and two other guys in the top 50 not to mention four other dudes that played a lot this past season.

 

[bpo57]

Michigan State had 4 Top 50 recruits coming in last year and barely made the NCAA Tournament at 19-14. And they had Mile Bridges. And one of the greatest coaches ever. One of the other 3 made a big impact-Nick Ward. The other two, Langford and Winston didn't produce much. It's unlikely that all 4 will contribute a lot, and even more unlikely they have a Top 10 NBA draft pick coming in. Matt Moyer was a Top 50 kid and he didn't even play.

So it sounds like, using your logic, that SU will be 14-17 next year and will be playing in the CIBB.

 

[bpo57]

It's widely regarded that the best conference in 2014 was the American Athletic Conference.

And same for the SEC in 2012.

 

[bpo57]

We may get the Top 40 kid.



Sure they can. Ball and Leaf made a huge impact. Ball, Monk, Fox were all Top 10 kids coming in. Does UCLA have any Top 1o kids coming in? Kentucky had 3 if you include Bam Adabayo. UCLA had 2 in Ball and Leaf. I saw UCLA lost another freshman to the NBA draft. UCLA is losing their Top 4 players, plus Ike Agnibogu. Hard to replace that talent with freshmen. UCLA was 15-17 the year before Ball and Leaf got there. I'm not counting on freshmen to make them an NCAA tournament team.

Btw that other freshman you referenced has not hired an agent so it's not clear that he won't come back.

 

[dasher]

Then what made the ACC great this year?

Serious? The conference took the B1G apart in the B1G /ACC challenge. The ACC had a very good year. I think it will be a losing argument to claim that the AAC in 2014 was in the same class as the ACC in 2017. You are correct that one team's performance in the tournament doesn't mean that the league is the best, but top to bottom, the ACC was a fierce conference in 2016/17.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

So it sounds like, using your logic, that SU will be 14-17 next year and will be playing in the CIBB.

Lucky if we are, with the current roster/commits.

 

[bpo57]

Serious? The conference took the B1G apart in the B1G /ACC challenge. The ACC had a very good year. I think it will be a losing argument to claim that the AAC in 2014 was in the same class as the ACC in 2017. You are correct that one team's performance in the tournament doesn't mean that the league is the best, but top to bottom, the ACC was a fierce conference in 2016/17.

The claim about the AAC was sarcastic and was made to illustrate the point you made about the performance of one team re conference strength. Personally, I think tournament performance in March is more important than what happens in early January. Games are played on a neutral court and everything is on the line. By any measure the ACC bombed in the NCAAT and they went 0-3 vs. B1G.

 

[dasher]

The claim about the AAC was sarcastic and was made to illustrate the point you made about the performance of one team re conference strength. Personally, I think tournament performance in March is more important than what happens in early January. Games are played on a neutral court and everything is on the line. By any measure the ACC bombed in the NCAAT and they went 0-3 vs. B1G.

What happens in early January isn't as important as what happens in March. Unless it is Syracuse because then many on the board chalk that up to a hot couple of weeks. All in all, while the tournament was disappointing for the ACC, I still believe it was the best conference top to bottom. In the tournament, I don't know what the seed numbers were going head to head. I will let you look that up if you want. One thing though, no B1G team was good enough to beat UNC. The B1G was lucky they didn't draw any games against them.

 

[HOFCeluck]

The Big Ten was terrible this year. The ACC was good. But it was also overrated.

 

[bpo57]

What happens in early January isn't as important as what happens in March. Unless it is Syracuse because then many on the board chalk that up to a hot couple of weeks. All in all, while the tournament was disappointing for the ACC, I still believe it was the best conference top to bottom. In the tournament, I don't know what the seed numbers were going head to head. I will let you look that up if you want. One thing though, no B1G team was good enough to beat UNC. The B1G was lucky they didn't draw any games against them.

UNC was fortunate to survive both UK and Arkansas. UNC was a deserving champion but many of the other ACC teams were grossly overrated - UVA and FSU stand out in that respect and I said so prior to the start of the tourney. Duke just couldn't play defense and had no PG. That's why they lost nine games. L'ville was a decent squad. The rest aren't worth talking about.

 

[dasher]

UNC was fortunate to survive both UK and Arkansas. UNC was a deserving champion but many of the other ACC teams were grossly overrated - UVA and FSU stand out in that respect and I said so prior to the start of the tourney. Duke just couldn't play defense and had no PG. That's why they lost nine games. L'ville was a decent squad. The rest aren't worth talking about.

Yes. and all of those B1G teams were super solid. You are exactly correct at the weaknesses of the ACC teams you mentioned. But we aren't comparing them to the teams of the 70's or 80's. UNC beat Kentucky and Ark. Period. Everything else is just conversation. Pitt was a lousy ACC team. They beat Maryland at Maryland.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Then what made the ACC great this year?

I'd say the 9 teams that made it into the NCAA Tournament, in addition to good teams like Syracuse, NC State, GTech, etc.

Can you name another conference with 12 good teams?

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I doubt that too and never said otherwise but Alpharetta was predicting doom for them when they have two McD AAs and two other guys in the top 50 not to mention four other dudes that played a lot this past season.

well...Doom might equal NIT. Is that really a stretch when losing 5 rotational players and relying on mostly freshmen?

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

And same for the SEC in 2012.

Lol.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

The Big Ten was terrible this year. The ACC was good. But it was also overrated.

Yet still way better than the PAC 12.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

So it sounds like, using your logic, that SU will be 14-17 next year and will be playing in the CIBB.

Who knows. Made the FF the year before last. when a 9th place ACC team can make the FF...who knows? Who was the 9th place Pac 12 team this year? Cal State Bananana Slugs?

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

UNC was fortunate to survive both UK and Arkansas. UNC was a deserving champion but many of the other ACC teams were grossly overrated - UVA and FSU stand out in that respect and I said so prior to the start of the tourney. Duke just couldn't play defense and had no PG. That's why they lost nine games. L'ville was a decent squad. The rest aren't worth talking about.

Yeah...UNC won it all. Champs. Duke lost 9 games because they play in the ACC. Against teams like Louisville, UVA, UNC, Syracuse, VT Tech, NC State, Miami, FSU...#ACCLOADED

I'd like to point out UVA beat Iowa buy 40. But feel free to ignore that.

this ain't the Pac 12

This ain't Oregon State, Washington, Arizona State, Washington State, Stanford, Stanford Light, California Community College...

#pac12blows

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

UNC was fortunate to survive both UK and Arkansas. UNC was a deserving champion but many of the other ACC teams were grossly overrated - UVA and FSU

Oregon was fortunate to survive Rhode Island (yeah that's right) and Michigan. All other Pac 12 teams were grossly overrated. See Arizona and UCLA. ;-). Right B-P-O?!

That PAC 12 sucked. 3 good teams and two were appparently overrated.