Class of 2016 LB Taylor Riggins (NY) Verbal to UMass

[chugg21]

So my question to you is this - we are now on the 3rd head coach at Syracuse since Coach Pasqualoni, and not one of them has made a positive impact on the impression that Rochester coaches have on Syracuse football. Why do you think that is?

Which one are you leaving out. Hoping its GRob, I tried to Eternal Sunshine him out of my brain too.

 

[orangeinohio]

Elgin could have said worse things to the reporters but I advised him not to. They were really harsh with their words to him. This is a good family. Its hard for me to imagine he's lying. I will talk to the new staff in a couple of weeks to get there side of it.

Good luck with talking to them. [I'm not being sarcastic, in case anyone is thinking that.]
I hope they listen.

 

[money3189]

Well said Money. Dino is an outsider. Had never even been to NY really, minus one game I think against Buffalo. In a manner of fate, NYS is not a football hotbed, but Syracuse will always be a regional school dependent on regional students. Need local stakeholders. Only way to truly build a foundation. Perhaps if we start winning we can get back in the good graces of some of these coaches, but I agree its a dangerous game they are playing.

This is absolutely right. I dont know why people dont understand you need your state behind you. Donors, alum's, etc... have to feel valued in some way. that is the foundation. Most big time coaches and programs understand that. Even Nick Saban kisses a little but from time to time lol. Winning solves everything. Im fine as long as we win but when your not its a problem.

 

[money3189]

Good luck with talking to them. [I'm not being sarcastic, in case anyone is thinking that.]
I hope they listen.

It's not about changing their minds lol these guys feed their kids based on the players they recruit. Its about making people feel valued.

 

[money3189]

kids are told ... now maybe they do not communicate it to their parents or coaches the same way it was communicated to them, but you almost always only hear one side of the story (never the schools or coaches).

sometimes I hear both sides. but your right

 

[SUFan44]

Which one are you leaving out. Hoping its GRob, I tried to Eternal Sunshine him out of my brain too.

Yup, left the little engine that could out. I try to forget that era as best I can.

 

[upperdeck]

if SU never gets another kid from NY they could likely be better off than if they got5-6 every year since you can count on 1 hand the number of impact kids they have gotten over the last 10 years. now if the the top 2-3 kids from NY go to syracuse that would be great for the program but it doesnt happen and hardly ever has in bball too and we have been pretty good in that sport. there are 3-5 kids a year from NY that end up making a difference so its not surprising we miss out almost every time.

 

[money3189]

Money, you and I have communicated offline numerous times in the past, and you know that I'm a big fan of your contributions to this forum.

I'm also sorry for Riggins, and for you given your personal involvement in the situation. Must suck being a kid who "earned" a scholarship from a camp and had his heart set for months to attend SU, only to have that taken away from him at the 11th hour. I'm glad he landed on his feet elsewhere.

Those qualifications aside, I don't resonate with some of your points. We've been down and a losing program for a LONG time. IMO, that's been as big if not the biggest factor with many of these in region high school programs as anything the coaches have done or did not do. Sure, personal relationships are important--but so is winning.

You say "start winning more than 4 games." If Babers does that, then a lot of this sentiment will go away, because kids want to play for winners. They want to be part of an exciting offense that scores a lot of points and goes to bowl games. Babers will bring that, and if he doesn't, then he won't be here long.

Additionally, I think it is great that SU hired an African-American coach, a group totally underserved at the head coaching level in college football. It shows we're progressive. Hiring a proven head coach with a track record of success shows we're serious, and finally committed to winning football. Once the wins start, the attention will follow--and will trump negative feelings over 1 or 2 prospects here and there.

It is amazing to me that an entire generation of NYS people have grown up without knowing success at SU, or understanding that we were once a perennial power. When I was a kid, my fandom of SU sports grew at a time when the program stopped stinking and became one of the better teams in college football for a sustained period, with an exciting, highly recognizable style of play. I'm definitely concerned that the 16 years of generally sucking [with few exceptions] has done damage--but I'm far more concerned about that than I am word of mouth bad feelings over a recruiting prospect who didn't end up here.

Winning cures all. I honestly believe that. Because if Babers starts to win at a high level, and the AQ coaches still won't give us the time of day, then to hell with them. As others have stated, they don't send their top prospects here anyway.

Again, sorry that someone you know got impacted in all of this. I do feel bad for Riggins, I honestly do.

I entirely agree with you. I will absoultely have no problem with not having 1 player from the region if they are winning 8 to 10 games per year. I love Babers and what he's building. I just dont like the dark cloud of our own state haning over us. The negativity hold SU back IMO. Im just big on relationships. That's when you get the most out of each other, but yeah you made some good points.

 

[money3189]

One kid who did not fit isn't a dangerous game. The staff is scrambling late and trying find kids who fit. They don't have a lot of NY connections to lean on and it's not like Shafer was bringing in a ton of NY kids this year either.

When we start scoring 40 pts a game and filling the dome, the kids will pay attention. Old grievances (previous staff and AD) will look old.

Babers will find time to build relationships locally. There's plenty of time to do so.

I agree

 

[RF2044]

I entirely agree with you. I will absoultely have no problem with not having 1 player from the region if they are winning 8 to 10 games per year. I love Babers and what he's building. I just dont like the dark cloud of our own state haning over us. The negativity hold SU back IMO. Im just big on relationships. That's when you get the most out of each other, but yeah you made some good points.

And so have you, throughout this thread.

Appreciate you sharing your perspective, even though we aren't quite on the same page on this topic.

 

[CuseLegacy]

Sounds like Shafer liked the kid, and Babers didn't. Unfortunately, there's no good way to give a kid and his parents the bad news. Anything the staff says will seem harsh.

It's not like Riggins was singled out. 9 other recruits were encouraged by the new staff to move on.

Remember that Marrone only kept Lemon, Pugh and Phillips from GRob's last recruiting class. Nature of the beast.

I think some of the problem here falls squarely on the shoulders of AD Coyle. Instead of making a promise he couldn't keep in a panic to keep the class together he should have simply waited until Babers was hired. At the most he should only have told the kids that the university was in the process of hiring a new staff and HC and any decisions on commitments would be deferred to him.

 

[money3189]

I think some of the problem here falls squarely on the shoulders of AD Coyle. Instead of making a promise he couldn't keep in a panic to keep the class together he should have simply waited until Babers was hired. At the most he should only have told the kids that the university was in the process of hiring a new staff and HC and any decisions on commitments would be deferred to him.

That was one things that frustrated his dad. I told him legally you cant fight this. the commitment was just a verbal agreement and nothing signed on paper. Your right, Coyle should have been more carfeul with his words. The Taylor's really believed him. They tried to reach out to him but he wouldnt return the call from my understanding.

 

[money3189]

Well im done with this, time to move on. I appreciate everyones opinions and insights to this matter. like I said, it hits you a little different when your involved and you are trying to help the parent but you hear the uncertanity and feeling of helplessness in their voice. Make you feel bad. GO ORANGE!!!!

 

[orangeinohio]

It's not about changing their minds lol these guys feed their kids based on the players they recruit. Its about making people feel valued.

You were saying that you're going to talk to the new SU staff, right?
I was just trying to say that they could use some insider info about NY.
Not specifically about Riggins; I'm referring to long term.

 

[Statesman1]

Who's is saying we should build the team with NY players? Dont think that team could compete either lol. Again its not just Aquinas.

I don't know about building the team with NY players, but we should have a nice base of 5-6 solid program players each class.

if SU never gets another kid from NY they could likely be better off than if they got5-6 every year since you can count on 1 hand the number of impact kids they have gotten over the last 10 years. now if the the top 2-3 kids from NY go to syracuse that would be great for the program but it doesnt happen and hardly ever has in bball too and we have been pretty good in that sport. there are 3-5 kids a year from NY that end up making a difference so its not surprising we miss out almost every time.

i disagree with the notion that we can be consistently successful without NY kids- there are about 8-10 D1 kids produced in the state each year, we should be getting half of those. If we get the occasional Rob Moore, Tim Green, Jake Zembiec etc all the better but Money is right- there is talent and we would be better off keeping it rather than letting it be poached by other programs.

 

[007]

Well im done with this, time to move on. I appreciate everyones opinions and insights to this matter. like I said, it hits you a little different when your involved and you are trying to help the parent but you hear the uncertanity and feeling of helplessness in their voice. Make you feel bad. GO ORANGE!!!!

Thanks for sharing your perspective and experience oh this, Money. I can only imagine how frustrating this must be for all involved at your end. I especially appreciated what you said in this post:

It's not about changing their minds lol these guys feed their kids based on the players they recruit. Its about making people feel valued.

I am hoping that this treatment was more a function of the short recruiting cycle for Babers and staff, including the pressure they must be under to bring this class together as best and as quickly as they can. Babers made it a clear point that NYS and neighboring proximity will be a recruiting priority. Hopefully, the recruiting experiences will be different going forward.

 

[baggerbob]

Well im done with this, time to move on. I appreciate everyones opinions and insights to this matter. like I said, it hits you a little different when your involved and you are trying to help the parent but you hear the uncertanity and feeling of helplessness in their voice. Make you feel bad. GO ORANGE!!!!

Having a local Kid as a member of the staff in Mike Hart, should help transition the staff into recruiting NYS.

 

[tep624]

This might be harsh, but I won't lose one second of sleep if Babers doesn't land a Rochester kid for the entirety of his regime over this. And money please don't take this as a shot at you because it absolutely isn't. Just my 2 cents.

The talent there is overrated and the coaches at the big programs act like they're Don Bosco Prep. Newsflash: you're not. There are Florida schools that put out more D1 talent in a year than Aquinas does in 5.

Rochester had been a focus for at least the past 15 years and what has this program gotten out of it? Collier who couldn't stay in school and was overrated anyway? Broyld, who had grade issues and had to prep, and then had his own issues? Roland Williams 20 years ago is probably the last one I can remember that had some hype and achieved his potential. Seriously am I missing anyone over the past 15 years at SU who was a Rochester kid and that was an all conference player or NFL pick or, at a minimum, multi year starter outside of Broyld?

When the program was up, the top kids from Rochester were seriously considering SU as an option and committing to SU and when it was down, they weren't. That tells me that the only thing that matters as far as recruiting top prospects out of that area is winning. I'm tired of the approach of using scholarships on kids that the staff feels or knows won't be contributors in order to "build relationships". You could make the argument that it worked in NYC under Marrone, where we took guys like Tull, Rene and Kobena and in future years started landing guys like Reddish and Morgan. But that's the only place that I can remember recently where that strategy worked but it's a costly strategy because you are clogging up your roster with lesser players that may not ever contribute in order to get a contributor.

I'd rather the staff leverage their existing relationships to get to a regular winner, and then it won't matter because once the program is winning, top players will want to play here regardless of whether they live in Rochester or on Mars.

 

[JrodCuse]

Who's is saying we should build the team with NY players? Dont think that team could compete either lol. Again its not just Aquinas.

Yea but Money, here's the thing. We can go get kids in Ohio or Florida or or NJ or PA that are just as good as these top tier kids from AQ. Producing a 4* kid every 2-3 years (I may be off on that stat I didn't look it up) seems like a lot of effort to go after. If we become a top 10-20 offense in the nation with this new staff, AQ kids will want to come here instead of us having to slob their or their coaches knobs just to get them to be interested. I'd rather focus on more talent rich areas that will yield more significant results than fight to get the 1-2 local kids that all the national schools are coming after. My 2 cents and I'm not a coach or recruiter but I understand stats and analyzing data. Focus on the good aquinas high school ( the one in FL), and the teir B/C kids from there are just as good as the A/B from AQ.

 

[money3189]

Yea but Money, here's the thing. We can go get kids in Ohio or Florida or or NJ or PA that are just as good as these top tier kids from AQ. Producing a 4* kid every 2-3 years (I may be off on that stat I didn't look it up) seems like a lot of effort to go after. If we become a top 10-20 offense in the nation with this new staff, AQ kids will want to come here instead of us having to slob their or their coaches knobs just to get them to be interested. I'd rather focus on more talent rich areas that will yield more significant results than fight to get the 1-2 local kids that all the national schools are coming after. My 2 cents and I'm not a coach or recruiter but I understand stats and analyzing data. Focus on the good aquinas high school ( the one in FL), and the teir B/C kids from there are just as good as the A/B from AQ.

I still dont understand why people think there is so much time spent in Rochester, its really not. We are beating a dead horse. Again, we know there are better players elsewhere. Hell yeah go all out to get those players. I agree Ohio, Florida Penn, DMV, Mich, Chicago, FL, have better talent, we know that already. The focus should be at those places, the coaches should spend as much money on travel or whatever they have to get those players. What I am saying is that there is some talent here. This is not vermont. Having not 1 NY, NYC (largest city in the world) commit is a valid concern. grabbing a local kid takes less time money and resources. it really takes no effort. there is no focus on Rochester. Believe me I know

 

[money3189]

This might be harsh, but I won't lose one second of sleep if Babers doesn't land a Rochester kid for the entirety of his regime over this. And money please don't take this as a shot at you because it absolutely isn't. Just my 2 cents.

The talent there is overrated and the coaches at the big programs act like they're Don Bosco Prep. Newsflash: you're not. There are Florida schools that put out more D1 talent in a year than Aquinas does in 5.

Rochester had been a focus for at least the past 15 years and what has this program gotten out of it? Collier who couldn't stay in school and was overrated anyway? Broyld, who had grade issues and had to prep, and then had his own issues? Roland Williams 20 years ago is probably the last one I can remember that had some hype and achieved his potential. Seriously am I missing anyone over the past 15 years at SU who was a Rochester kid and that was an all conference player or NFL pick or, at a minimum, multi year starter outside of Broyld?

When the program was up, the top kids from Rochester were seriously considering SU as an option and committing to SU and when it was down, they weren't. That tells me that the only thing that matters as far as recruiting top prospects out of that area is winning. I'm tired of the approach of using scholarships on kids that the staff feels or knows won't be contributors in order to "build relationships". You could make the argument that it worked in NYC under Marrone, where we took guys like Tull, Rene and Kobena and in future years started landing guys like Reddish and Morgan. But that's the only place that I can remember recently where that strategy worked but it's a costly strategy because you are clogging up your roster with lesser players that may not ever contribute in order to get a contributor.

I'd rather the staff leverage their existing relationships to get to a regular winner, and then it won't matter because once the program is winning, top players will want to play here regardless of whether they live in Rochester or on Mars.

Again we are just repeating the same thing. Of course no one will have a problem with where the players are coming from if they are winning. But you have to WIN still.

 

[Statesman1]

I'm not sure why people get so down on NY/Rochester recruiting. You don't have to put guys into the NFL to have good college contributors. Guys like David Walker & Keith Downing worked out ok. Just in the last 5-6 years the Rochester area produced three of the top 10 recruits in the state (Jamir Jones, Zembiec) and Breedlove (McQuaid, headed to Lafayette). Alex Officer (Pitt), Chauncey Scissum, Devan Carter to Rutgers, Jarron Jones (ND), Jamahl Pardner (Pitt), Quentin Gause (Rutgers), Broyld, Jerome Lewis (VT), Sean Fitzpatrick (UNC), Matt Jones, Collier etc. Sure some of them turned out to be busts, but there are plenty of good players I'd rather keep close to home rather than see them play elsewhere. To Money's point, this should be easy pickings (if only we could crack the Aquinas code!)

 

[tep624]

Again we are just repeating the same thing. Of course no one will have a problem with where the players are coming from if they are winning. But you have to WIN still.

I agree, that's completely fair. I just don't think the area is worth our time until we're winning. I guess that's the point I'm trying to make.

 

[money3189]

I agree, that's completely fair. I just don't think the area is worth our time until we're winning. I guess that's the point I'm trying to make.

first thing any coach will tell you. You recruit your own back yard. THE FIRST thing

 

[CuseOnly]

thats the wrong debate. Im not saying NY prospects are the biggest impact players on the team. lol its obvious that their not. If you dont constantly connect with NYS HS coaches then your not gonna understand. the attitudes of people I talk to. You are not at coaching clinic hearing discussions of how people will never send their kids to SU and how I have give them reason why they should. Resources? lol, Wheatley/ Bullough use to come and chat with me all the time. It takes no resources. You dont have to get our players, you have to make coaches believe you will and that you value them atleast. Doesnt take much. Its a hour and half away. Dont know why you feel that it does.

So what you are basically saying is keep investing time and building relationships with NY HS coaches so that they can send their best kids to ND, Penn State, "insert factory out of state school here" just because it is "good for NYS football?

Sounds like charity work... and will get results like it has for the past 20 years for SU which is basically the 2nd and 3rd tier kids in the state. Result isn't worth the investment.

I would rather the coaches get 2nd tier kids from FL or OH than waste time here building relationships here for "the good of NYS football". It is about building SU football not NYS football.

No offense Money, I have a ton of respect for you on here as a poster.