Lebron James is a coward

[MyMeloMyMan]

Pretty good article on LBJ

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/michael_rosenberg/05/21/lebron/index.html

 

[PoppyHart]

I think he is potentially the greatest player to ever play the game but his propensity to come up small in big situations holds him back from that distinction...as of now.

I still don't get your fascination with "clutchness" and coming up small in big situations. Was yesterday not a big situation in which he put forth a remarkable effort?

 

[Knicks411]

I still don't get your fascination with "clutchness" and coming up small in big situations. Was yesterday not a big situation in which he put forth a remarkable effort?

It obviously wasn't. He came up big, and we all know that Lebron doesn't play well in big situations, so therefore it wasn't a big situation.

It's amazing how segmented, for lack of a better term, this clutch thing is becoming for Lebron. I think now it literally is only clutch if Lebron hits the game winning shot with less than 10 seconds on the clock. (LIke I said, he scored the game tying and game winning bucket in the last minute of the game that sent them to the finals last year; that seems pretty clutch to me, but I dunno). The guy played one of the most well rounded great games that people have played in playoff history, to basically save his team's season. If that's not the mark of a great player, then what is the point in even having the discussion? And by that i don't mean that last game makes any debate irrelevant; the no show in the finals last year did happen and is part of the equation. But I think the game yesterday is pretty much beyond reproach.

Last second game winning shots are really rare in basketball games. Kobe is the clutchiest clutch that ever clutched or whatever, and he's 0-12 since 2007 in the playoffs.

Yesterday's performance was one of the better ones in recent playoff history, but it also kinda underscores the trouble Miami is going to have against Bosh. Lebron played about as good as he can play, Wade played, on the whole, a very strong game (and was incredible in the second half) and Miami played a back and forth game with a team that I don't think anyone considers a true title contender.

Lebron has the ability to end his career as the GOAT (which I happen to like as an acronym, fwiw) but I still don't think it's gonna happen. And I don't think failing to surpass MJ (we all agree he is the best, right?) would necessarily make his career a failure.

 

[djcon57]

I still don't get your fascination with "clutchness" and coming up small in big situations. Was yesterday not a big situation in which he put forth a remarkable effort?

Remember all those amazing Jordan, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe performances in the 2nd round of the Playoffs?

Yeah, me either.

Do it in the Finals.

To be fair to Lebron he was amazing vs Detroit a couple years back in the ECF AND amazing last year vs Chicago AND great last night, but he's waived the right to get praise for the 2nd round performances when he took his talents to south beach and "not 3, not4, not 5".

If he gets it done in the Finals, no one can say anything. Remember all the Kobe got not being able to win w/o Shaq? THEN he won, everyone shut up.

 

[Knicks411]

Remember all those amazing Jordan, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe performances in the 2nd round of the Playoffs?

Yeah, me either.

Don't remember the shot over Craig Ehlo? That was first round, too.

Lebron played an incredible game in a game his team needed to win. But he didn't go to Miami to win 2 rounds of the playoffs. So I do hear that argument. But I don't think he "waived" any right to get praise or anything like that. He played an all time game yesterday. But they still have a long way to go. (I personally don't think they're going to get there this year).

 

[PoppyHart]

Remember all those amazing Jordan, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe performances in the 2nd round of the Playoffs?

Yeah, me either.

Do it in the Finals.

To be fair to Lebron he was amazing vs Detroit a couple years back in the ECF AND amazing last year vs Chicago AND great last night, but he's waived the right to get praise for the 2nd round performances when he took his talents to south beach and "not 3, not4, not 5".

If he gets it done in the Finals, no one can say anything. Remember all the **** Kobe got not being able to win w/o Shaq? THEN he won, everyone shut up.

This is fine and valid. And I agree that he needs to win championships. How they are won, imo, is immaterial. But as Knicks411 said, we've condensed this so much that soon we're only going to count game winning, half-court hook shots, on the road, in the NBA Finals.

For all the talk of Melo being so clutch, how do we know he'd live up to that wrap in the NBA Finals, or anywhere deep in the playoffs. Has he ever hit a playoff buzzer-beater?

 

[djcon57]

This is fine and valid. And I agree that he needs to win championships. How they are won, imo, is immaterial. But as Knicks411 said, we've condensed this so much that soon we're only going to count game winning, half-court hook shots, on the road, in the NBA Finals.

For all the talk of Melo being so clutch, how do we know he'd live up to that wrap in the NBA Finals, or anywhere deep in the playoffs. Has he ever hit a playoff buzzer-beater?

How about JUST WIN IN THE FINALS, first...before you examine how others examine make believe game winning NBA final shot by Lebron.

That's all *I* ask. Don't care about others. Don't care about Melo.

Just win an NBA championship or else criticism of his game is valid.

Notice, no one said boo about Dirk's non-clutchness vs OKC this year. Wonder why? OH YEAH, HE WON.

 

[moqui]

There is virtually no way for Lebron to ever crack the top 3 GOAT list. He will fall in comfortably in the 4-9 range when its all said and done. Most freakishly gifted bball player of all time, imo...but certainly not the greatest.

well, it is tough for anyone to do so . . . I was thinking about this last night. Tim Duncan is easily the greatest power forward of all time, he has 4 titles, could be looking at a 5th, and the way the Spurs are built, a back-to-back for a 6th can't even be ruled out (assuming Timmy comes back, but why wouldn't he?)

But, even if he retired in 2014 as the best power forward in the history of the game, with 6 titles spread across 3 different decades, it would be hard to nudge him even into a top 5 that includes Wilt, Michael, Russell, Kareem and Magic. Who do you leave out of that list?

To call it a "knock" on a player that he can't crack that top 5 - let alone the top 3 - is farcical.

 

[Knicks411]

Notice, no one said boo about Dirk's non-clutchness vs OKC this year. Wonder why? OH YEAH, HE WON.

Which makes the whole thing kind of funny to me; is the default assumption that just everyone is a choker until they win the title?

 

[Knicks411]

But, even if he retired in 2014 as the best power forward in the history of the game, with 6 titles spread across 3 different decades, it would be hard to nudge him even into a top 5 that includes Wilt, Michael, Russell, Kareem and Magic. Who do you leave out of that list?

To call it a "knock" on a player that he can't crack that top 5 - let alone the top 3 - is farcical.

Haha, newsflash; the best basketball players of all time are REALLY REALLY good.

That seems like a pretty reasonable top 5. If I remember, in Simmons book, he took Wilt out and had Bird in there. Wilt was probably 6th.

 

[djcon57]

Don't remember the shot over Craig Ehlo? That was first round, too.

You are right. I do remember that.

Show me the play where Lebron won a game 7 with a shot like that.

 

[Knicks411]

If i thought Lebron was as good as Jordan maybe I'd do that (and I clearly wouldn't be very successful)

How many game 7's has Lebron played? (That was a game 5, but it was first round, so I get your point). Boston in 08; is that it? He had a great game but they lost. Jordan didn;t play very many either; 98 against Indy, 92 against NY. Did they go 7 against the Pistons in those east finals? (That doesn't have anything to do with the beginning of the post, just an observation).

 

[moqui]

What? Can you imagine Kobe or Jordan missing two free throws in a similar situation and then saying ANYTHING other than something like this?​

​

I can imagine Kobe saying it, for sure. That and worse. Kobe routinely throws his teammates under the bus.

and Kobe does it again . . . after going 2 for 10 in the fourth quarter (and one of those a meaningless stat-padder at the buzzer) while the Lakers blow an 11point lead, Kobe points the blame finger at Pau Gasol

 

[Knicks411]

I kinda like Kobe now; he says what he thinks. It may not make him a good teammate, but for afar, I find it entertaining. (Kinda like Brian Cashman with the Yankees).

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

I wonder if Lance Stephenson thinks up these things he can do on the bench while he beats his girlfriend (mother of his children).

 

[moqui]

I kinda like Kobe now; he says what he thinks. It may not make him a good teammate, but for afar, I find it entertaining. (Kinda like Brian Cashman with the Yankees).

I agree, and I didn't mean this as a slam on Kobe so much as a comment on the "kobe would never do anything like that" line of thinking.

 

[kirbivore]

If i thought Lebron was as good as Jordan maybe I'd do that (and I clearly wouldn't be very successful)

How many game 7's has Lebron played? (That was a game 5, but it was first round, so I get your point). Boston in 08; is that it? He had a great game but they lost. Jordan didn;t play very many either; 98 against Indy, 92 against NY. Did they go 7 against the Pistons in those east finals? (That doesn't have anything to do with the beginning of the post, just an observation).

Chicago lost the 1990 ECF in 7 to the Pistons. Game 7 was the infamous Pippen migraine game.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

I think Granger tapped out. He didn't want anymore and I can't blame him.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Most cowardly 30 point beatdown in NBA history.

WHERE HAVE ALL THE SAMSPANNS GONE????

 

[djcon57]

Most cowardly 30 point beatdown in NBA history.

WHERE HAVE ALL THE SAMSPANNS GONE????

"We really love instant analysis."

THEY ARE UP 3-2 in the 2nd ROUND AGAINST THE INDIANA PACERS. HE'S THE GOAT!!!

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

I love this thread :rolling:

 

[PoppyHart]

I love this thread :rolling:

Methinks this thread will last longer than a twinkie in a post-nuclear environment. (Great Family Guy episode btw.)

 

[br801]

Methinks this thread will last longer than a twinkie in a post-nuclear environment. (Great Family Guy episode btw.)

And I was thinking it needs to be put out of its misery. I can't keep all these megathreads straight anymore.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

I have to laugh the most at those who say they hate the NBA and hate Lebron...but post about his every move.

This is the best unintentional comedy ever.

 

[HOFCeluck]

"We really love instant analysis."

THEY ARE UP 3-2 in the 2nd ROUND AGAINST THE INDIANA PACERS. HE'S THE GOAT!!!

The premise of the thread is assinine, and you have to admit a few people are conspicuously absent today.