Lebron James is a coward

[Knicks411]

The greatest players of every sport come through in the clutch more often than not and they want to be the ones making the decisive play. LBJ hasn't shown a desire to be the one to win or lose a close game at the end.

This was mainly the case in the finals last year. Wasn't the case with Cleveland or in the 2 rounds prior to the finals last year; though there was the end of his tenure in Cleveland. (I thought his performance in the Chicago series was one of the more remarkable in recent memory; he averaged 26-8-7 with a 57% true shooting percentage, and he shut down Derrick Rose in the 4th quarters of those games) That is what makes the thing more perplexing. He seemed to be actively avoiding the ball in the finals last year. He doesn't owe anyone an explanation for that, but I would still love to hear it.

Of course, its shows you how good he is; he had a triple double in Game 5 of the finals last year and scored 21 points on 9-15 shooting in game 6 last year of the finals. But he took 20 free throws the whole series; I just don't know how that happens. I'm a Lebron fan, but that is clearly a black mark against him.

I thought Arod had ridden himself of the choker meme when he was probably the Yankees best player in the 09 playoffs.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Lebron is doing everything AND shutting down Danny Granger...and he gets blamed? He can't take every shot. That play was specifically run for Chalmers last night... Jordan was not always the guy taking the last shot for Chicago either.

ESPN is killing the way the average fan views sports.

 

[jimsonjunction]

Chalmers is probably a better 3 point shooter than Lebron though. I know there is the MJ school of thought that the best guy should always take th e last shot, but if it's a 3 like that, that doesn't really bother me; the guy is a career 33% shooter from 3.

Of course then you run into the issue of Chalmers takes more open 3's than Lebron or Wade, and in a situation like that it's going to be harder to get a wide open 3 (though probably easier to get one for Chalmers then Lebron or Wade).

When you need a 3 I don't have a problem running a play for one of your 3 point shooters. The Knicks ran a play for Steve Novak (yes they actually ran a play for him at one point) to get him a 3 in that crazy game against the Bulls. Play worked, he got a great look, he just rimmed it out.

2 point game or less, Lebron needs the ball in his hands to make a play. When you need a 3 don't have a problem with that; though Chalmers didn't get a good shot. (Wasn't there someone in the corner, I thought maybe he was going to pass it to him; James Jones maybe/)

I understand your point. And Wade is a pathetic three shooter (for some reason) so he's not really an option. But in my opinion, Lebron needs to at least touch the ball on that play instead of setting a screen and floating away. If he starts with it at the top of the key, you either get a Lebron attempt in rhythm, or a double-team allowing Lebron to find a wide open shooter. Maybe Spoelstra is to blame.

 

[orangefan13]

IMO when Lebron was in cleveland he looked awesome during some of the playoff games. Now that hes on the heat he looks like a roll the dice type when the pressure is on.

Its a different game when the offense is centered around you and you have the greenlight.
A star will always get their points as surely as Ray Allen knocks down his jumpers off a screen or in the corner.

Lebron did what he had to though. He got to the line late in the ballgame as a decent free throw shooter. However, Wade may be the better option for the ball in his hands and when the defense gets tough.
I Can't remember Wade being criticicized for missing the big shots this year or last in the playoffs.

Theres more pressure on Lebron now. He will have been better loosing alone in the finals on Cleveland then never winning the big one with Wade and Bosh. Time will tell. Lebrons team ran out of gas twice in teh finals. Thats a differnet story then Kobe, Jordan or Dirk for that matter.

 

[44cuse]

ESPN is killing the way the average fan views sports.

Exactly.

44cuse

 

[moqui]

What? Can you imagine Kobe or Jordan missing two free throws in a similar situation and then saying ANYTHING other than something like this?

I can imagine Kobe saying it, for sure. That and worse. Kobe routinely throws his teammates under the bus.

 

[Knicks411]

I can imagine Kobe saying it, for sure. That and worse. Kobe routinely throws his teammates under the bus.

Haha yes, he did it like a week ago.

But in my opinion, Lebron needs to at least touch the ball on that play instead of setting a screen and floating away. If he starts with it at the top of the key, you either get a Lebron attempt in rhythm, or a double-team allowing Lebron to find a wide open shooter.

100% agree with this. The way I think about the last shot stuff is that the best player doesn't need to take the last shot necessarily, but he needs to make the play. That was not happening in the finals last year, for sure.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Why are threads never made about his 32/15/5 games where he also shuts down the opponents best player?

Guy is a beast..deal with it. He's not perfect, but he creates great theatre. He is basically all the NBA has to hang their hat on right now. The NBA has become like golf. If Lebron isn't involved...people aren't tuning in to watch. He has us all under his finger and is loving every minute of it. Haters included. Every time his name is mentioned, it helps him sell more of his Nike swag.

 

[Ghost]

Lebron did what he had to though. He got to the line late in the ballgame as a decent free throw shooter. However, Wade may be the better option for the ball in his hands and when the defense gets tough.
I Can't remember Wade being criticicized for missing the big shots this year or last in the playoffs.

Theres more pressure on Lebron now. He will have been better loosing alone in the finals on Cleveland then never winning the big one with Wade and Bosh. Time will tell. Lebrons team ran out of gas twice in teh finals. Thats a differnet story then Kobe, Jordan or Dirk for that matter.

I don't think peole care if Wade misses, or LeBron, they care that it SEEMS like so often he's afraid to take the last shot. I don't have stats so I don't even know if it's true, but the perception is that he shies away from the ball.

Look at the All-Star game, Kobe was literally begging him to shoot, and he passed with Kobe and Melo laughing at him when he did it. It's in his DNA to defer - even in a pointless ASG. lol

 

[pfister1]

OK, so he misses two huge free throws with just under a minute with his team down by one.

The team loses.

Fine. I dont think that necessarily means he is some gigantic no heart choker or anything but what really showed us who he is was his comments AFTER the game.

what does he say about the free throws ? "those two free throws did not win or lose the game"

What? Can you imagine Kobe or Jordan missing two free throws in a similar situation and then saying ANYTHING other than something like this?

"I need to hit those two shots. I let my team down. This one is on me."

THAT is what the greatest players say and feel...whether or not its even true. This is how you lead and this is how you must view your importance to the team's success.

Lebron has a very fragile confidence, so fragile that he cannot even lay blame upon himself lest he lose his mojo.

That is not a psyche that lends itself to greatness.

Shouldn't this be on the post season, pro sports, played on a rainy Tuesday in May board?

 

[Knicks411]

I don't think peole care if Wade misses, or LeBron, they care that it SEEMS like so often he's afraid to take the last shot. I don't have stats so I don't even know if it's true, but the perception is that he shies away from the ball.

I just have a hard time reconciling that with the guy who scored the last 25 points in 2007, or the guy who carried them in the Bulls series.

Also, I do think people care if he misses. The whole Lebron being afraid really came up in the finals, or it was at least really magnified. There are lots of people who don't like Lebron, I have no doubt that if he took every important shot for Miami and missed them he'd be called a choker.

And someone mentioned it here before; Wade has totally made out with this situation. He's the guy everybody loves; Wade was awful down the stretch last night but he doesn't take any heat for it. He basically missed a layup that could've tied the game! This whole situation worked out awesome for him.

But it's out there, and there are definitely times when it has happened. Kobe famously took off the second half of the 2006 playoff game, but that was one game. Lebron kinda took off the last few 4th qtrs in the finals. I think part of it is he is such a gifted passer, he can often get good looks for guys; maybe that is the positive interpretation of "he doesn't have the killer extinct". I also think playing with Wade has amplified this; Lebron had no choice in Cleveland but to dominate the ball, now he is playing with one of the best guys in the game.

Either way, I think we can all agree that Lebron standing in the corner is not the best use of him.

 

[PoppyHart]

Lebron is in a catch-22 with all the haters. All he can do is win championships, and even that won't be enough for the majority of people.

If he passes in the waning seconds, or plays passively, he's pilloried
If he takes the shot and misses, he's not clutch.
If he puts up video game numbers, it goes unmentioned
If his team wins, it doesn't move the needle b/c the Heat, as constructed, are supposed to.

FTLOG, will the haters just state what it will take for them to ? Maybe it will take a while (several years) for the requirements to be met. Maybe they can't/won't be achieved. But at least we'll see some light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Orangezoo]

I just have a hard time reconciling that with the guy who scored the last 25 points in 2007, or the guy who carried them in the Bulls series.

Also, I do think people care if he misses. The whole Lebron being afraid really came up in the finals, or it was at least really magnified. There are lots of people who don't like Lebron, I have no doubt that if he took every important shot for Miami and missed them he'd be called a choker.

And someone mentioned it here before; Wade has totally made out with this situation. He's the guy everybody loves; Wade was awful down the stretch last night but he doesn't take any heat for it. He basically missed a layup that could've tied the game! This whole situation worked out awesome for him.

But it's out there, and there are definitely times when it has happened. Kobe famously took off the second half of the 2006 playoff game, but that was one game. Lebron kinda took off the last few 4th qtrs in the finals. I think part of it is he is such a gifted passer, he can often get good looks for guys; maybe that is the positive interpretation of "he doesn't have the killer extinct". I also think playing with Wade has amplified this; Lebron had no choice in Cleveland but to dominate the ball, now he is playing with one of the best guys in the game.

Either way, I think we can all agree that Lebron standing in the corner is not the best use of him.

Good post- There is a lot to be said for the diversion this has created in lumping all the blame on Lebron.. The Pat Riley 3 star approach, Wade, Bosh .. all have been left from most of the criticism while Lebron takes the brunt. Until Miami wins the whole thing the concept of piecing together a team vs a bunch of stars alongside as many role players and vets as money can buy is not a winning concept. This is what is frustrating with the Knicks.. its all about maximizing return in the short term.. instead of following the bread crumbs left by organizations who have it figured out... The spurs are a perfect example. You have at least one key player and you work to pursue others as time progresses and put together a deep, talented squad that was built methodically. In Many ways Denver was nearly there with Melo before he bolted.. they could have unloaded salary, made a few moves and maybe Chandler was in Denver.. and they had Miller as well.. that was a good team just conflicted. New York, if patient could have added Melo to a loaded roster and even made a couple other moves that would have put pieces in play. The Bulls/Lakers/Celtics and to a lesser degree Spurs have created this myth that you must build a dynasty instead of building a team that can win just one title to start with. Lebron is doing the best he can. He is a great player.. but in a league where defense wins 3/4 of the game and offense finishes he does not have the jumper to be legendary good... which is ok.. he is still a freak of nature and the best in the NBA. It will be interesting to see if the trio experiment fails again.. what will go down in Miami.. is it Spoelstra who will go first.. or will Bosh be shipped out? Or will Lebron force the issue to take his talents elsewhere?

 

[jimsonjunction]

FTLOG, will the haters just state what it will take for them to ? Maybe it will take a while (several years) for the requirements to be met. Maybe they can't/won't be achieved. But at least we'll see some light at the end of the tunnel.

Not sure if I fall into the "hater" category, but it will take multiple championships. If you're an elite player, you will face increasing pressure and criticism until you win the big one. Mickelson, Romo, ARod, etc. Lebron isn't the only one who's faced it.

I say multiple because he chose to leave Cleveland and partner up with two other elite players. He then stated his expectations to win multiple championships (to put it lightly). I truly believe that if he wins 2 or 3 rings, most of this talk will disappear.

 

[moqui]

ESPN is killing the way the average fan views sports.

it's funny, many of the same fans on this board who lauded the Syracuse team unselfishness and the idea that "the go-to-guy is the open man" now suddenly act as if basketball should be played as a test of personal manhood

 

[NailstheCusefan12]

it's funny, many of the same fans on this board who lauded the Syracuse team unselfishness and the idea that "the go-to-guy is the open man" now suddenly act as if basketball should be played as a test of personal manhood

It'll be a test of personal manhood to look at your posts as long as your avatar stays the way it currently is.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

it's funny, many of the same fans on this board who lauded the Syracuse team unselfishness and the idea that "the go-to-guy is the open man" now suddenly act as if basketball should be played as a test of personal manhood

We like our superstar hoopsters to go 9-24 from the field and miss or make the final shot...good or bad. We don't like these guys who fill up all the stat lines, play unselfishly and guard all positions on the court. "OMG, he didnt take the last shot, he is a terrible human!!!!"

 

[br801]

It'll be a test of personal manhood to look at your posts as long as your avatar stays the way it currently is.

One look at that and my b@lls shriveled up.

 

[arbitragegls]

Well since i am mostly a Knick fan that lives in south Florida and has tickets to the Heat...I gotta tell you that Mr. James is Not a Coward! I was at the game and if not for Mr. James, leading scorer, leading rebounder, best defender on court the and leading with Wade to bring the Heat back in the 4th qtr, this would have been a blow out by Indiana. Sure James missed two FTs...heck Wade missed a wide open lay-up and lets not forget the many missed FTs on Indiana's team in 4th qtr.
Some of you may not like L James...some of us may like him; but the fact remains he is one of the BEST bball players in the game. Three out of four MVPs sort of support that feeling.
For the fans in Miami, James is the best and he does it without an attitude...he gives on lthe court and he is human. Guess the thing is I find the statement he is a coward to be down right silly! Obviously everyone has there opinion and we respect that; but I bet the NY Knicks would love to have him on their team instead of Amare.

 

[pfister1]

Not sure if I fall into the "hater" category, but it will take multiple championships. If you're an elite player, you will face increasing pressure and criticism until you win the big one. Mickelson, Romo, ARod, etc. Lebron isn't the only one who's faced it.

I say multiple because he chose to leave Cleveland and partner up with two other elite players. He then stated his expectations to win multiple championships (to put it lightly). I truly believe that if he wins 2 or 3 rings, most of this talk will disappear.

I am not a Lebron hater, but would agree with this for a different reason.

When his supporters support him he is referred to as a great and/or elite player or all time great type of player. Based on what he can do with the basketball that may be deserved. But, in this sport that means comparisons to the likes of Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant among others. No matter what else Jordan did, his teams won 6 NBA championships and he was obviously the alpha on those teams. Kobe won 5 NBA championships, and again, was a player who was the driving force behind those teams.

Who else is in that Pantheon of NBA greats? Russell (11 NBA Championships), Magic (5 Championships), Kareem (6 championships), Larry Bird (3 championships).

Guys like Dominique Wilkins, Charles Barkley or Patrick Ewing may or may not have had comparable levels of talent, but they were never able to take a team to a championship, much less multiple championships. Was this just good luck in terms of the teams and coaches who the winners ended up associated with and bad luck for the non-winners? Maybe. But, it also clearly separates them from the Best of the Best. Unlike those guys, Lebron was able to not only control where he went after Cleveland, but also pick his teammates.

He is the ARod of basketball. His statistics tell you that he is among the best that ever played, but his individual success doesn't always seem to lead to team success.

Until he wins multiple NBA championships, he will probably never be included among the greats without some people adding the caveat "but he didn't" or "but he couldn't"

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

The most interesting aspect of the Heat likely ready to bow out of the playoffs early will be...will any other team tie up all of their money in 3 max guys ever again? It leaves you so thin everywhere else and if one of them gets injured, you are toast.

I mean, think about a team having to start Turiaf and Haslem at the 4 and 5 deep into the playoffs. How many teams can overcome playing 3 vs 5 on offense?

 

[Knicks411]

Until he wins multiple NBA championships, he will probably never be included among the greats without some people adding the caveat "but he didn't" or "but he couldn't"

Which I think is totally fair. (It seems much less fair in a sport like baseball, where one player has much less of a control over the outcome of a game). If Lebron wants to be considered one of the 5 best players ever, he has to win 3 titles at a minimum, I would think.

The most interesting aspect of the Heat likely ready to bow out of the playoffs early will be...will any other team tie up all of their money in 3 max guys ever again? It leaves you so thin everywhere else and if one of them gets injured, you are toast.

I mean, think about a team having to start Turiaf and Haslem at the 4 and 5 deep into the playoffs. How many teams can overcome playing 3 vs 5 on offense?

I think it was such a unique situation anyway. How many teams have a chance to sign 3 max guys at once anyway?

 

[Ghost]

I am not a Lebron hater, but would agree with this for a different reason.

When his supporters support him he is referred to as a great and/or elite player or all time great type of player. Based on what he can do with the basketball that may be deserved. But, in this sport that means comparisons to the likes of Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant among others. No matter what else Jordan did, his teams won 6 NBA championships and he was obviously the alpha on those teams. Kobe won 5 NBA championships, and again, was a player who was the driving force behind those teams.

Who else is in that Pantheon of NBA greats? Russell (11 NBA Championships), Magic (5 Championships), Kareem (6 championships), Larry Bird (3 championships).

I think this whole post sums it up well (even though I cut some of it off). The supporters of LeBron are essentially arguing "isn't being great enough, he gets triple doubles!!! Why can't you all just be happy with that." Everyone else is trying to find a reason to put him up on the Mt. Rushmore of basketball and they're not there yet.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

I think it was such a unique situation anyway. How many teams have a chance to sign 3 max guys at once anyway?

Yeah, that may never happen again, but..Oklahoma City is going to have to make a decision with Harden/Ibaka next year. Can they afford to keep Durant/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka? I'm sure Harden will be looking at 5/60 and Ibaka will want similar.

 

[NailstheCusefan12]