Lemon quote on the fans

[hoopsupstate]

Ileft after the final horn, got in my car and was home in Camillus in 15 minutes. People just want too complain.

 

[retro44]

after skimming through the first few,threads like this are a waste of time

 

[SWC75]

What are you talking about? Amount of noise made? What is that? We are judging fanbaes now on who is the loudest? Are you serious? I always thought you were a bright guy, you proved me wrong tonight!



Once again, total bullshit. The program sucked and the fans left. It's not like the fans left and stopped supporting a winning program. The program got so terrible that you will lose most casual and non die-hard fans. Especially in a bad economy! If you want to blame the fans for Pasqualoni being stupid. DeLeone being even dumber. The G-Rob era, the Chancelor telling fans to get a life, Jake not raising a dime in his final years and refusing to fire coaches that were failing. go for it. BLAME the fans for that but you are totally lost on this issue.

So if every Joe Blow stays till the final whistle and yells so loud he loses his voice GRob would have been a good coach? LOL, give me a break with this nonsense! It's the fans fault that SU loses football games and can't recruit?! HA! Not the AD who hires/fires coaches, or the coaches themselves, or the actual players. Fans showing up and not yelling and leaving early when SU is down by 4 TD's is why we sucked! Unreal.

You're giving reasons why the fans aren't there, (some more valid than others). I'm citing the impact.

There are places where al the things you describe have or could have happened and the statiums would still be full and the fans would be there until the end. Top coaches and players would rather play at such places than here. if we made this such a place, we'd have a chance to become a perennial powerhouse. We haven't and it isn't.

 

[SWC75]

You have things totally backwards.

Btw, we'd rank pretty good in the noise department.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Well we play in a Dome so we can create pretty good noise without a large crowd. But even that is reactive more than proactive. Soemtiems the Dome can be like a library, (except for the blaring announcements and music).

As to having things backwards, is it wrong to say that a lack of fan support has an impact on the program? I'm not debating the reasons for the lack of fan support, just the impact.

 

[Stern]

I'm not debating the reasons for the lack of fan support, just the impact.

You said the fans deserve what they got. Why do the fans deserve to have a losing program? What did SU fans do wrong some 10 years ago to deserve the mess they had to watch for all these years? That's what I don't get.

 

[GoSU96]

“It would be nice if everyone stayed the whole game and didn’t get up and leave. It’s kind of sucky when you see people get up and leave, but we’re out there playing the game.” - Alec Lemon





Found this interesting quote from the post-game. Rare you see a player (especially a college player) come out against the fans.

Want to explain how that's "coming out against the fans"?

 

[MaxwellCuse]

On the NY or Mass side? Was shipped off to a Mass boarding school near there - gorgeous country!

Still a NYer. Columbia County. I guess technically we live in the Taconics but its all Berkshires to us.

 

[TexanMark]

The fans also didn't decide to take away any credit for long time donors to the benefit of the johnny come lately one or two year wonders. Along with a number of other brilliant decisions.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Taking away the perks of the Ernie Davis Donor was a huge mistake.

 

[SWC75]

You said the fans deserve what they got. Why do the fans deserve to have a losing program? What did SU fans do wrong some 10 years ago to deserve the mess they had to watch for all these years? That's what I don't get.

The top programs in the country fill 100,000 seat stadiums. We have a half-full stadium that is half the size and half the people there are gone by the end of the game. How are top coaches and players going to look at that and decide that they want to come here rather than a place where a larger stadium is full, no matter who they are playing?

 

[Stern]

The top programs in the country fill 100,000 seat stadiums. We have a half-full stadium that is half the size and half the people there are gone by the end of the game. How are top coaches and players going to look at that and decide that they want to come here rather than a place where a larger stadium is full, no matter who they are playing?

Maybe if the team was better half the people wouldn't be gone! The fans "react" to what takes place on the field. You can't expect the fans to lead the football program.

 

[OttoForLife]

Alec is a gamer, but players (pro or college) never do themselves any favors coming out and saying things like this. Frankly, I'm a little disappointed he was caught on record saying something. Figured he was one of the headier guys in the locker room.

 

[SWC75]

Maybe if the team was better half the people wouldn't be gone! The fans "react" to what takes place on the field. You can't expect the fans to lead the football program.

I'll let you obsess over why the fans aren't there. All I'm saying is that their absence has an impact on the state of the program.

 

[Stern]

I'll let you obsess over why the fans aren't there. All I'm saying is that their absence has an impact on the state of the program.

There absence is because the program has failed them! SU Football has screwed SU Football. The fans had nothing to do with it.

 

[TexanMark]

Can I add holding fan fest from 3:30 to 5:30 on a Friday?

That struck me as strange...sure the kids are off school but Daddy is still working. Hope it moves to Saturday.

I'm not buying the Spring Scrimmage argument (not directed at you rocklloyd) over in Rochester. Sure Cuse got it second...BFD. How many attend our Spring Game? 4500? and that was with a Lax game too. Cuse is trying to reach out to cities 60-90 mins away to draw in some more fans. I support this strategy. Plus we need to showcase the team in Rochester where we get a recruit there about every other year or maybe more. I think next year we need to hold a scrimmage in Utica or Binghamton.

 

[GoSU96]

There absence is because the program has failed them! SU Football has screwed SU Football. The fans had nothing to do with it.

The program has failed them? Are you kidding. It's a COLLEGE FOOTBALL team. It's not a pro team, and get this sport, they don't OWE you anything, other than effort and to try to run the program the right way. That's it. They don't OWE you playing a style you like, they don't OWE you wins.

Here's the thing, a fan is a fan, which means support come hell or high water. You don't go out of your way to find offense, you support the team, regardless of difficulty, and you, I hate to be repetitive, support the team.

A fan does not accumilate (perceived) personal affronts and wallow in them all the time. A fan does not go out of his way to only focus on negatives to all exclusion of obvious positives.

Here's a couple of questions for you, and be honest. From kickoff to the end of the game, do you ever actually cheer for the team? Do you ever actually applaud them for a good play? Have you ever made a post on this board to acknowledge, and not in a gruding backhanded way but a purely positive manner, the actual obvious and fundamental improvements in the program?

 

[alphaorange]

A lot of people here really are clueless. In the first place, Syracuse and the surrounding 50 mile radius simply does not have the sort of economic base that can easily support 40k plus for home games. It's great that all you professionals have the time and money to do it, but the fact is the pool of potential "customers" to fill the dome is a fraction of what it once was. That is indisputable. I don't know a single one of you personally, at least to my knowledge, so I have no axe to grind, but SWC sounds like an incredibly uniformed elitist.

A typical example is Cortland. Cortland county lost around 25% of it's manufacturing base between 1982 and 1997 (7000 from SCM, alone). I can tell you that many of those people held season's tickets and attended because that is how I got started. When those jobs left, those fans either left, too, or became employed at lesser jobs. Either way, the result is the same: no money for discretionary activities, so not many football games.

Much the same happened in Syracuse. Fisher body, Carrier, New Process Gear, R.E. Dietz, and a dozen others either downsized or closed all together. For people to ignore this because it doesn't fit their argument is what has been called an "inconvenient truth". The alumni that blame central NYers need look no further than the mirror. SU played the #2 team in the country in a large venue close to one of the largest cites in the world and how many showed up? Was that the CNY fans' fault as well?

The bottom line is that SU is a school with a small alumni base (compared to many of the state schools often mentioned) in an economically disadvantaged area, and struggling to fill seats. When fans are demonized and treated the way they have been since the Buzz and Jake days, there will always be backlash. There was, and the realization that it will take a major effort to restore interest to the point people will sacrifice to go to games is just not evident from the hill, at this point. This whole loss of fans thing is a perfect storm of events that unfolded over several years and will take several years to fix. The product on the field is but a single part. The university needs to make a huge effort to get back the fans and lowering prices is just a small step. I honestly don't see the effort to fix things that are mentioned in this thread by Stern and Bees, for example.

Two things in closing: As a businessman, I can tell you that you can lose a customer in the blink of an eye. Trying to get that same customer back is a time consuming task that often requires giving more that you gave when he was with you previously.
And secondly,

"Ileft after the final horn, got in my car and was home in Camillus in 15 minutes. People just want too complain."

That's a load of crap. Takes 5 minutes to exit the dome, alone. Unless you car is parked by Hendricks, motor running, no fans to avoid, make every light, that is not even possible. Takes me at least 7-8 minutes to walk to the bus stop because I am a schmoe that parks off campus. Then I wait for the bus, ride to my car, fight traffic to get on 81 and then drive 35 more minutes. I'm not complaining, mind you, but lets be accurate. Even for a non-tailgating fan, a football game at the dome takes around 6 hours start to finish from my area.

 

[orangecuse]

Ryan Nassib with the other great quote of the night..."Winning is an unfamiliar feeling"

That's a staggering quote and really says it all...the culture of losing is so difficult to break...

 

[rocklloyd]

That struck me as strange...sure the kids are off school but Daddy is still working. Hope it moves to Saturday.

I'm not buying the Spring Scrimmage argument (not directed at you rocklloyd) over in Rochester. Sure Cuse got it second...BFD. How many attend our Spring Game? 4500? and that was with a Lax game too. Cuse is trying to reach out to cities 60-90 mins away to draw in some more fans. I support this strategy. Plus we need to showcase the team in Rochester where we get a recruit there about every other year or maybe more. I think next year we need to hold a scrimmage in Utica or Binghamton.

No sweat, I'm cool with scrimmage in Rochester or any other upstate city that draws fans but I'd like fan fest to start at 5:30 so I can sneak out of work a few minutes early, pick up kids and head back down to Manley. I'm a pretty simple person.

 

[CusefanATL]

A lot of people here really are clueless. In the first place, Syracuse and the surrounding 50 mile radius simply does not have the sort of economic base that can easily support 40k plus for home games. It's great that all you professionals have the time and money to do it, but the fact is the pool of potential "customers" to fill the dome is a fraction of what it once was. That is indisputable. I don't know a single one of you personally, at least to my knowledge, so I have no axe to grind, but SWC sounds like an incredibly uniformed elitist.

Knoxville, Tennessee
State College, PA
Auburn, AL <---- do you know where auburn is? they dont have an airport.
South Bend, Indiana (population has decreased similar to syracuse)
Clemson, SC <---- closest airport is an hour away

 

[TexanMark]

The program has failed them? Are you kidding. It's a COLLEGE FOOTBALL team. It's not a pro team, and get this sport, they don't OWE you anything, other than effort and to try to run the program the right way. That's it. They don't OWE you playing a style you like, they don't OWE you wins.

Here's the thing, a fan is a fan, which means support come hell or high water. You don't go out of your way to find offense, you support the team, regardless of difficulty, and you, I hate to be repetitive, support the team.

A fan does not accumilate (perceived) personal affronts and wallow in them all the time. A fan does not go out of his way to only focus on negatives to all exclusion of obvious positives.

Here's a couple of questions for you, and be honest. From kickoff to the end of the game, do you ever actually cheer for the team? Do you ever actually applaud them for a good play? Have you ever made a post on this board to acknowledge, and not in a gruding backhanded way but a purely positive manner, the actual obvious and fundamental improvements in the program?

Go it sounds like he "Needs to Get a Life"
I agree with everything you say...the SU FB program doesn't go to work everyday saying, "What should be do to piss off the local populace?" I know some of the people in the AD Department and they are all very hard working and good people. Ten years of sucking, negative demographic trends along with CNY negative attitudes have not helped. SWC is correct too. Bee's is illustrating the aftereffects.

 

[cmr27]

<<<The bottom line is that SU is a school with a small alumni base (compared to many of the state schools often mentioned) in an economically disadvantaged area, and struggling to fill seats.>>>

I agree with the thrust of your post but I'm not sure how to reconcile it with the outstanding attendance for SU basketball? Upstate fans come out in droves in the dead of winter for hoops even given the smallish alum base and bad economy. Why is football different? The obvious answers are basketball's success and JB's attachment to Upstate ("one of our own"). That makes people more willing to spend on hoops. And that's probably the overall point. Everything you say may be true but there's no doubt more people in the community will attend if the product on the field gets better regardless of other factors. Which is a good thing. SU can control the on-field product much better than it can the impact of offshoring manufacturing jobs on the Upstate economy.

 

[alphaorange]

Knoxville, Tennessee
State College, PA
Auburn, AL <---- do you know where auburn is? they dont have an airport.
South Bend, Indiana (population has decreased similar to syracuse)
Clemson, SC <---- closest airport is an hour away

Not sure why having an airport is critical to a team drawing fans. Very few fans fly to games. They will drive though. You are conveniently ignoring that football is king in the south and that ND has a fan base that dwarfs ours. I never once mentioned population. I mentioned loss of economic base. How exactly does any part of your response refute what I posted? Apples and Oranges.

 

[orangecuse]

A lot of people here really are clueless. In the first place, Syracuse and the surrounding 50 mile radius simply does not have the sort of economic base that can easily support 40k plus for home games. It's great that all you professionals have the time and money to do it, but the fact is the pool of potential "customers" to fill the dome is a fraction of what it once was. That is indisputable. I don't know a single one of you personally, at least to my knowledge, so I have no axe to grind, but SWC sounds like an incredibly uniformed elitist.

A typical example is Cortland. Cortland county lost around 25% of it's manufacturing base between 1982 and 1997 (7000 from SCM, alone). I can tell you that many of those people held season's tickets and attended because that is how I got started. When those jobs left, those fans either left, too, or became employed at lesser jobs. Either way, the result is the same: no money for discretionary activities, so not many football games.

Much the same happened in Syracuse. Fisher body, Carrier, New Process Gear, R.E. Dietz, and a dozen others either downsized or closed all together. For people to ignore this because it doesn't fit their argument is what has been called an "inconvenient truth". The alumni that blame central NYers need look no further than the mirror. SU played the #2 team in the country in a large venue close to one of the largest cites in the world and how many showed up? Was that the CNY fans' fault as well?

The bottom line is that SU is a school with a small alumni base (compared to many of the state schools often mentioned) in an economically disadvantaged area, and struggling to fill seats. When fans are demonized and treated the way they have been since the Buzz and Jake days, there will always be backlash. There was, and the realization that it will take a major effort to restore interest to the point people will sacrifice to go to games is just not evident from the hill, at this point. This whole loss of fans thing is a perfect storm of events that unfolded over several years and will take several years to fix. The product on the field is but a single part. The university needs to make a huge effort to get back the fans and lowering prices is just a small step. I honestly don't see the effort to fix things that are mentioned in this thread by Stern and Bees, for example.

Two things in closing: As a businessman, I can tell you that you can lose a customer in the blink of an eye. Trying to get that same customer back is a time consuming task that often requires giving more that you gave when he was with you previously.
And secondly,

"Ileft after the final horn, got in my car and was home in Camillus in 15 minutes. People just want too complain."

That's a load of crap. Takes 5 minutes to exit the dome, alone. Unless you car is parked by Hendricks, motor running, no fans to avoid, make every light, that is not even possible. Takes me at least 7-8 minutes to walk to the bus stop because I am a schmoe that parks off campus. Then I wait for the bus, ride to my car, fight traffic to get on 81 and then drive 35 more minutes. I'm not complaining, mind you, but lets be accurate. Even for a non-tailgating fan, a football game at the dome takes around 6 hours start to finish from my area.

This has been a very entertaining & interesting thread to say the least.

You've made some solid points, however, the area I believe is still able to support the dome's capacity, regardless of your own indisputable thoughts, unless, of course, you have the actual data to support same.

Currently, the losing culture plays a huge/more significant role and until the winning happens, people will just remain disinterested and continue to spend their money on other choices of entertainment. I mean just look at some of them folks that attend the fair (on more than one occasion to boot) and spend quite a bit of dough on some relatively pretty wasteful things, etc., etc. Bottom line...people will choose to spend their money wherever it brings them the most enjoyment/gratification. As others have mentioned, tix for football games are pretty darn affordable.

 

[alphaorange]

<<<The bottom line is that SU is a school with a small alumni base (compared to many of the state schools often mentioned) in an economically disadvantaged area, and struggling to fill seats.>>>

I agree with the thrust of your post but I'm not sure how to reconcile it with the outstanding attendance for SU basketball? Upstate fans come out in droves in the dead of winter for hoops even given the smallish alum base and bad economy. Why is football different? The obvious answers are basketball's success and JB's attachment to Upstate ("one of our own"). That makes people more willing to spend on hoops. And that's probably the overall point. Everything you say may be true but there's no doubt more people in the community will attend if the product on the field gets better regardless of other factors. Which is a good thing. SU can control the on-field product much better than it can the impact of offshoring manufacturing jobs on the Upstate economy.

I suspect that many of the issues that drove away the footballers did not exist for basketball. I also suspect that attendance is not what it once was (average per game), despite an NC. I would guess that there are more students at those games, too. But basically, when you take away the students and season ticket holders, I would guess that each sport draws about the same. I would also expect more people to go to basketball games as the weather makes doing other stuff very unpleasant.

 

[alphaorange]

This has been a very entertaining & interesting thread to say the least.

You've made some solid points, however, the area I believe is still able to support the dome's capacity, regardless of your own indisputable thoughts, unless, of course, you have the actual data to support same.

Currently, the losing culture plays a huge/more significant role and until the winning happens, people will just remain disinterested and continue to spend their money on other choices of entertainment. I mean just look at some of them folks that attend the fair (on more than one occasion to boot) and spend quite a bit of dough on some relatively pretty wasteful things, etc., etc. Bottom line...people will choose to spend their money wherever it brings them the most enjoyment/gratification. As others have mentioned, tix for football games are pretty darn affordable.

Seriously? That is a well reasoned response? If your think what I said is indeed disputable, you need to do some research. Those companies I mentioned were all real, all vibrant, and combined for tens of thousands of jobs. This isn't even counting the near complete collapse of the manufacturing base in Rochester, NY. I have lived in CNY my entire life and I know the deal. Sounds like you couldn't find your butt with GPS. Why don't you explain your data that suggests Syracuse has a vibrant middle class economy because that is who fills the stadium. Why do you think the Empire Zone was so prevalent in CNY? Get a clue, man.

Oh...and the STATE fair? For two weeks out of the year offering things that you don't get other places or times? Hard to take you seriously.