Lester on his Offense

[Millhouse]

Yeah but its just that ... talk ... and everyone makes a slew of conclusions ... until they take the field we just don't know. I know that Lester had Elmhurst headed in a really good direction and it took some time but I think the guy can get it done and I think he will sling the ball around, his QB numbers give me that hope. Based on what has been stated on this board it doesn't sound like several coaches had their way in how things would be done on O ... lets give it a few games and see what happens ... if it is still really bad then we scream and stomp. It is premature to do so now.

talk is all we have to go on because we hired a guy from d3 school that no ones ever heard of that that changes gears every year that can't articulate what he wants to do

that elevator speech is essential for someone coming from elmhurst.

i would love to hire an offensive coordinator that wouldn't need to tell us what they're going to do the way TCU did or the way that oklahoma does.

we knew what browning would do, we knew what spence would do unfortunately from the unanimous opinion of clemson fans. we need to hire an offensive coordinator that comes from a *good* college offense. if we're going to have a defensive head coach, it's probably going to have to be a promoted position coach or coordinator. if we're going to have an offensive head coach, we can give that to a proven coordinator.

we do everything the hard way

 

[Ringostar57]

I think Ted hung around as long as Ben did, which means he was still coaching the Orange through '73 (?).

He was line coach before Rocco Pirro took over......remember him cursing when open substitution and the end of playing 2 ways came in the early 60s. He was an old time purist who demanded perfect execution.

 

[wfschrec]

talk is all we have to go on because we hired a guy from d3 school that no ones ever heard of that that changes gears every year that can't articulate what he wants to do

that elevator speech is essential for someone coming from elmhurst.

i would love to hire an offensive coordinator that wouldn't need to tell us what they're going to do the way TCU did or the way that oklahoma does.

we knew what browning would do, we knew what spence would do unfortunately from the unanimous opinion of clemson fans. we need to hire an offensive coordinator that comes from a *good* college offense. if we're going to have a defensive head coach, it's probably going to have to be a promoted position coach or coordinator. if we're going to have an offensive head coach, we can give that to a proven coordinator.

we do everything the hard way

No it is only essential to appease people who want to complain, all that matters is points on the board ... if he does that I don't care if he tells those idiots from the substandard (who aren't worth the time anyway) that the sky is green and rains donkey urine in the Northeast. Not sure how Lester has changed gears since this is the first year they have installed his offense and done it his way, you had a guy that took over a program and took them to their first playoff birth in 30 years at Elmhurst and is responsible for developing a guy who was DIII player of the year. He had the second highest winning percentage in program history and the records books at Elmhurst are littered with his guys and he was only there 4 years ... in a way his full vision wasn't even realized .. I suggest we cut him some slack and let the results speak for themselves ... then you can either applaud him or shoot him ... at that point I won't care.

 

[orangenirvana]

Nope. Look again, chico.

 

[Millhouse]

 

[TheCusian]

not unfair.

its the spring game. they have basically 3 months to prepare for it.

the goal is to get plays on film.

whether or not he likes the playbook is completely irrelevent.

they should have 100 scripted plays or whatever with personnel assigned.

his job is to stand behind the huddle, yell...'1st team!!'...then call the play assigned. or 'Orange package!!'...then call the play assigned.

he failed at that.

Fer reals? They aren't preparing for the spring game. They treat it as a practice. The other 3 months is prep for the season, not a meaningless game. I think that was the year that Shafer said it would be one thing and then changed it few days before?

You're being generous with that you think should have happened. Can you say after watching 1.5 years of Mcit's offense that anyone had any idea of what was happening?

 

[TheCusian]

talk is all we have to go on because we hired a guy from d3 school that no ones ever heard of that that changes gears every year that can't articulate what he wants to do

that elevator speech is essential for someone coming from elmhurst.

i would love to hire an offensive coordinator that wouldn't need to tell us what they're going to do the way TCU did or the way that oklahoma does.

we knew what browning would do, we knew what spence would do unfortunately from the unanimous opinion of clemson fans. we need to hire an offensive coordinator that comes from a *good* college offense. if we're going to have a defensive head coach, it's probably going to have to be a promoted position coach or coordinator. if we're going to have an offensive head coach, we can give that to a proven coordinator.

we do everything the hard way

Not one of those things sheds any light on whether he'll be good this year or not. It's a lot of presumptions worded negatively to bolster a semi-coherent point. I could care less where the guy comes from and whether he's aware of things a previous OC said 8 years ago or who hired him.

So - the question is - if all we have is talk to go on, why assume the worst?

 

[TheCusian]

No it is only essential to appease people who want to complain, all that matters is points on the board ... if he does that I don't care if he tells those idiots from the substandard (who aren't worth the time anyway) that the sky is green and rains donkey urine in the Northeast. Not sure how Lester has changed gears since this is the first year they have installed his offense and done it his way, you had a guy that took over a program and took them to their first playoff birth in 30 years at Elmhurst and is responsible for developing a guy who was DIII player of the year. He had the second highest winning percentage in program history and the records books at Elmhurst are littered with his guys and he was only there 4 years ... in a way his full vision wasn't even realized .. I suggest we cut him some slack and let the results speak for themselves ... then you can either applaud him or shoot him ... at that point I won't care.

In Millhouse's world we should only hire the #1 or #2 HC from D3. Taking them from 200 to 20 something in offense out of 300 teams isn't impressive enough.

 

[TheCusian]

Oh, snapz! You have game, chica.

 

[Alsacs]

The fact nobody knows what to expect on offense should be scary. I want SS to succeed as he gives off a genuine love for SU, but we are in the business to win games. Giving the OC job to Tim Lester during the season last year and then not even publicly saying he was doing a search for a new OC lost him creditability in my opinion. SS hitched his wagon to Lester and now if we go from 115th to 80th people who use that as justification to say we are in right direction. When you can't go from 115th anywhere up with half a brain. The expectation should be a top 60 offense and then I will say okay. If we end up improving from to the 70's or 80's and don't win 5-6 games it should be over.

 

[Alsacs]

In Millhouse's world we should only hire the #1 or #2 HC from D3. Taking them from 200 to 20 something in offense out of 300 teams isn't impressive enough.

Actually he would like a good offensive mind for any successful D-1 college offense. I mean we are pining our hopes on a D3 offense and want people to have optimism. When this coach already was OC for half a year and while he may not have implented his system couldn't up the offense to look like they belonged on the field.

Give Doug Marrone that roster and while we don't win those he prepares the team for what they can do to actually look like a college football team. There would have been stupid penalties and such, but the team would have had a gameplan.

 

[Alsacs]

If I didn't know Lester was the OC for the second half of the season even with all the injuries and he was the new OC I would feel a lot better. Those games don't go off your ledger. Who says the offense has to lite it up. We couldn't get first downs or yards and looked pathetic. Coaching can cover up those flaws and if you can only do 5 plays well then you mix those plays in more.

That is why I am worried when I saw what I did last year and then I hear comparisons to 3 complex NFL offenses.

 

[TheCusian]

Actually he would like a good offensive mind for any successful D-1 college offense. I mean we are pining our hopes on a D3 offense and want people to have optimism. When this coach already was OC for half a year and while he may not have implented his system couldn't up the offense to look like they belonged on the field.

Give Doug Marrone that roster and while we don't win those he prepares the team for what they can do to actually look like a college football team. There would have been stupid penalties and such, but the team would have had a gameplan.

Ug. Marrone/Hackett argument? Shafer and the D carried those teams until 2012. Hackett stumbled into something great that year system-wise - but only after a bunch of failed experiments.

I'm not saying it's easy to have hope for the future with Lester - I'm just saying he deserves to at least run a play in his system before people kill him. They didn't look like they belonged on the field because the backup QB's didn't belong on the field, the line was decimated, and Lester himself didn't have faith in the system.

 

[TheCusian]

If I didn't know Lester was the OC for the second half of the season even with all the injuries and he was the new OC I would feel a lot better. Those games don't go off your ledger. Who says the offense has to lite it up. We couldn't get first downs or yards and looked pathetic. Coaching can cover up those flaws and if you can only do 5 plays well then you mix those plays in more.

That is why I am worried when I saw what I did last year and then I hear comparisons to 3 complex NFL offenses.

Noted. I'm not worried. See you Sept!

 

[Millhouse]

In Millhouse's world we should only hire the #1 or #2 HC from D3. Taking them from 200 to 20 something in offense out of 300 teams isn't impressive enough.

that's right, actually. that's what UB did.

elmhurst offensive rankings
2012 47th
2011 15th
2010 54th
2009 114th

i think you can do better than that if you're going the d3 route. but all those other coaches might not have done time in kalamazoo

 

[Alsacs]

Ug. Marrone/Hackett argument? Shafer and the D carried those teams until 2012. Hackett stumbled into something great that year system-wise - but only after a bunch of failed experiments.

I'm not saying it's easy to have hope for the future with Lester - I'm just saying he deserves to at least run a play in his system before people kill him. They didn't look like they belonged on the field because the backup QB's didn't belong on the field, the line was decimated, and Lester himself didn't have faith in the system.

During the Doug Marrone era all of really impressive wins were because of the offense scoring outside of the 2010 win west Virginia which the D won.

In 2009 we beat Northwestern 37-34, Rutgers 31-13, 2010- @WVU 19-14(D won this game), @Cincy 31-7, K-State 36-34, 2011- Wake 36-29, WVU 49-22. I won't even go into 2012.

SS did a good job with the D but our offense was why we won and see the points we scored. We have only scored 30 points TWICE in 2 years in SS against P5 schools. Why?

 

[Millhouse]

Hackett stumbled into something great that year system-wise - but only after a bunch of failed experiments.

that's one way to put it. another way to put it is that they scrapped a failed pro-style approach and put in a simple college offense. we've had one good year on offense in , what, 18 years? this isn't that hard. it's college football. run a college offense. I would've loved to hear ANYTHING about a college offense that Lester admires.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/packaged-plays-and-the-newest-form-of-option-football/

Marrone and his offensive coordinator at Syracuse, Nathaniel Hackett, son of longtime NFL coach Paul Hackett (and now the offensive coordinator with the Bills), spent the offseason trying to figure out how they could fix a pro-style offense that was supposed to take college football by storm. The answer was to go the other direction — to learn from the top college offenses. Marrone and his staff spent extensive time that summer studying teams like Oregon, Toledo, and West Virginia to figure out how to blend their up-tempo, spread-it-out philosophies with the NFL concepts Marrone and Hackett believed in. They didn’t pull the trigger right away, but after the first couple weeks of training camp showed little improvement on the prior year’s results, Marrone called for the switch that would change the course of his career.

“Two weeks before the season, we changed the whole offense,” Hackettexplained before Syracuse’s bowl game last winter. And the theme for all the changes could be summed up in one word: “compression.” It wasn’t that Marrone added a bunch of new plays, or that the changes were obvious enough that a casual fan would notice, but the entire framework of the offense did change. For the passing game, Marrone said his first priority was to reduce the number of passing concepts. Out too went the complicated NFL-style play calls, replaced with simple, one- or two-word commands that facilitated the team’s new up-tempo, no-huddle pace.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Fer reals? They aren't preparing for the spring game. They treat it as a practice. The other 3 months is prep for the season, not a meaningless game. I think that was the year that Shafer said it would be one thing and then changed it few days before?

You're being generous with that you think should have happened. Can you say after watching 1.5 years of Mc. . . . it's offense that anyone had any idea of what was happening?[/QUOTE]

well they won a bowl game with it and the board seems to have fallen in love with hunt operating it, so theres that.

the whole idea of a spring game is to get plays and players on film. but because its not a practice, things need to be precise.

they easily couldve taken 30 minutes to script up their 50 most vanilla plays and run them 2x.

unprepared.

thats all im saying... that it could be a warning sign

 

[rosconey]

hackett could implement a whole new offense in just 2 weeks- yet lester couldnt over 8 games

isnt that the #1 patented excuse used by the koolaid drinkers- he didnt have his offense-

 

[TheCusian]

During the Doug Marrone era all of really impressive wins were because of the offense scoring outside of the 2010 win west Virginia which the D won.

In 2009 we beat Northwestern 37-34, Rutgers 31-13, 2010- @WVU 19-14(D won this game), @Cincy 31-7, K-State 36-34, 2011- Wake 36-29, WVU 49-22. I won't even go into 2012.

SS did a good job with the D but our offense was why we won and see the points we scored. We have only scored 30 points TWICE in 2 years in SS against P5 schools. Why?

2009? We were 37th in D... and 116th in offense.

You also conveniently left off 2010 (7th rated D, 97th in offense) and 2011 (64th D, 90th O).

As to why we've only scored 30 twice against p5 the last two years? Because we've sucked on offense? We had a bad OC, bad system, and marginal talent? Followed by a half a year of injuries, a system in transition, etc. TO BE CLEAR: Lester shares some of that blame as QB coach and OC over that last bit.

 

[CIL]

that's right, actually. that's what UB did.

elmhurst offensive rankings
2012 47th
2011 15th
2010 54th
2009 114th

i think you can do better than that if you're going the d3 route. but all those other coaches might not have done time in kalamazoo

I know you like to dog Lester's record at Elmhurst, but you do realize prior to Lester's arrival the school hadn't had a wining conference record since 1985? He actually did a solid job with that program, leading them to their first conference championship since 1980 and a 10-2 record.

I know those offensive rankings don't look phenomenal, but I would ask you if you would settle for a top 25 percentile offense at the d1 level? Because thats what Lester did his last 3 years at Elmhurst, considering there are 240 division 3 football teams.

Leopold's (UB's head coach) offensive rankings his last 2 years were 88th and 15th.

 

[Millhouse]

I know you like to dog Lester's record at Elmhurst, but you do realize prior to Lester's arrival the school hadn't had a wining conference record since 1985? He actually did a solid job with that program, leading them to their first conference championship since 1980 and a 10-2 record.

I know those offensive rankings don't look phenomenal, but I would ask you if you would settle for a top 25 percentile offense at the d1 level? Because thats what Lester did his last 3 years at Elmhurst, considering there are 240 division 3 football teams.

Leopold's (UB's head coach) offensive rankings his last 2 years were 88th and 15th.

I assume that d1 coaches on average are better than d3 coaches because of the money. so you probably need to be much higher than top 25% in d3 for it to translate to top 25% in fbs

given how little d3 coaches are paid, if you're going that route, you can be very selective.

at least i showed all 4 years of lester at elmhurts. wisc whitewater had top 10 offenses in 2009 and 2010

also, the year they were 88th, they won every game with a great defense. i suspect they were shutting it down. 18th in efficiency

 

[Alsacs]

2009? We were 37th in D... and 116th in offense.

You also conveniently left off 2010 (7th rated D, 97th in offense) and 2011 (64th D, 90th O).

As to why we've only scored 30 twice against p5 the last two years? Because we've sucked on offense? We had a bad OC, bad system, and marginal talent? Followed by a half a year of injuries, a system in transition, etc. TO BE CLEAR: Lester shares some of that blame as QB coach and OC over that last bit.

I never said the D wasn't good. Our D though has never been as good 7th in the nation and that is where the stats lie. In 2010 we played a soft schedule Akron, 2 I-AAs, Boston College, and Washington with the Big East.

We won games because our offense put 30 points. We lost when the offense sucked against UConn and BC. The 7th ranked defense gave up 40 points to Washington, Pitt and 34 points to Kansas State.

Marrone's teams weren't great offensively outside of 2012, but they did score points in the big wins. In 2009 with Greg Paulus we scored 30 points against BCS competition 3 times Northwestern, Rutgers, and UConn and that is more times than SS's offenses have done in 2 years total.

 

[Millhouse]

I never said the D wasn't good. Our D though has never been as good 7th in the nation and that is where the stats lie. In 2010 we played a soft schedule Akron, 2 I-AAs, Boston College, and Washington with the Big East.

We won games because our offense put 30 points. We lost when the offense sucked against UConn and BC. The 7th ranked defense gave up 40 points to Washington, Pitt and 34 points to Kansas State.

Marrone's teams weren't great offensively outside of 2012, but they did score points in the big wins. In 2009 with Greg Paulus we scored 30 points against BCS competition 3 times Northwestern, Rutgers, and UConn and that is more times than SS's offenses have done in 2 years total.

paulus got it all figured out just in time to get a job coaching basketball

i wonder how many other times SU has had a qb get a rating of 170+ two games in a row?

 

[Alsacs]

paulus got it all figured out just in time to get a job coaching basketball

i wonder how many other times SU has had a qb get a rating of 170+ two games in a row?

Without looking it up I bet Paulus threw for more or close to as many TDs in his last game than we did as a team last year.