Lester on his Offense

[CuseOnly]

This is wrong. College and pro is very different and the best offenses in both are even more different

Wrong according to who...you? Why has the NFL adopted zone read principles...because they follow college and the talent that gets drafted and what they are taught in college. Russell Wilson, Kapaernick, Newton, etc.

The offenses that are "great" in the pros are great because their QB dictates what they run, Tom Brady and Peyton are not running the zone read but Russell Wilson is...which is better or greater? And according to who?

How many Peytons and Bradys are coming out of college these days? Not many and the NFL will be forced to change.

 

[Crusty]

There are easier ways to handle it. Simple keep the OC title on McDonald even after he goes to the press and have the HC say it will be determined who will call the plays or even SS could have taken the bullet and say he will make the calls.

In Dallas the Cowboys have an OC Bill Callahan and passing game coordinator Scott Linehan. The play calls are made by Linehan even though Callahan is technically the OC. There are more than one way to skin the cat but after Mc... forced SS hand he gave the keys publicly to Lester. Sorry then you own your the results.

There are rumors that the coaches were near revolt. We all have heard the stories of GM freezing up the year before. It must have been far worse than we know for SS to make that decision.

 

[wfschrec]

Completely missed the point. Well done.

I didn't miss the point ... not one bit ... everyone has something invested or they wouldn't be here to some degree or another ... that is the point that you don't get.

 

[Millhouse]

Wrong according to who...you? Why has the NFL adopted zone read principles...because they follow college and the talent that gets drafted and what they are taught in college. Russell Wilson, Kapaernick, Newton, etc. The offenses that are "great" in the pros are great because their QB dictates what they run, Tom Brady and Peyton are not running the zone read but Russell Wilson is...which is better or greater? And according to who? How many Peytons and Bradys are coming out of college these days? Not many and the NFL will be forced to change.

You are not sure if NE and Denver have better offenses than Seattle?

 

[Finwad32]

Holy moly, August can't get here soon enough. We're at the 5th level of inception for debating the debates on debates.

I haven't been able to follow a thread since March.

Curb stomping Rhode Island will go a long way.

 

[wfschrec]

Yeah, he swung and missed badly. As if I was comparing who was more invested.

Oh well, it's father of player syndrome. They could tell some posters here that their mother was a w_hore and some of those same people would still click like. It's a level of rock star status that makes Mick Jagger jealous.

Its not a syndrome ... you made an ignorant statement ... and I could care less what your mother did for a living ... it has nothing to do with rockstar status ... it has to do with the fact that everyone here cares about this program and whether the reason is you are a booster or you are a parent or a fan or an alum it really truly doesn't matter. People get on a guy like TheCusian for always being upbeat well the same could be said for constant negativity and the constant posting about statistics that have no bearing at all on what will happen this season ... none ... QBR, offensive rank ... none of it ... if they were such a guarantee 2012 would have never happened ... wash rinse repeat with the constant barrage of the same meaningless numbers ... if they play like crap this year go for it ... knock yourselves out ... but can we at least have them snap the friggin ball before you get your panties in a wad over stats?

 

[qdawgg]

REALLY Now...

2010 recruiting class - According to skoot, they had 3 4* recruits in 2010 and only 2 started in 2014 (both would have been seniors or RS seniors).
2011 recruiting class - No 4* recruits at all, couldn't have been any 4 star or higher starters in 2014.
2012 recruiting class - 4* and 5* recruits = Beniquez Brown, Denico Autry, Quay Evans, Nick James, Will Redmond - The only starter was Beniquez Brown.
2013 recruiting class - 5 4* recruits and only 1 saw the field = Justin Cox

So, for 22 starting positions they had only 4 impact players that started or played all season. Are you pretty sure or absolutely sure?

The other 38 players on the 2-deep were for the most part 2-3* players.

Looked them up...

Or you could also look at ESPN which grades out less players.... I agree they do have some 2 star players but they have mostly 3 star players as do a majority of CFB teams in the country but they also have their fair share of top ranked 4 star and ESPN 150/300 recruits as well. The cream of the crop recruits.

You mentioned Michigan as having superior talent and Mississippi State as having mostly nobodies. Clearly Michigan will have more overall talent but it's not like Mississippi State is winning mainly with 2 stars.

2012
Michigan: 5* = 0/4* = 10/3* = 15 --> ESPN 150 = 4
Miss State: 5* = 0/4* = 3/3* = 21 --> ESPN 150 = 1/300 = 2
*** Miss State = 28 Commits; 21 being 3 stars, 3 being 4 stars. Not a lot of 2 stars

2013
Michigan: 5* = 0/4* = 17/3* = 9 --> ESPN 300 = 15
Miss State: 5* = 0/4* = 8/3* = 12 --> ESPN 300 = 4

2014
Michigan: 5* = 1/4* = 10/3* = 5 --> ESPN 300 = 9
Miss State: 5* = 0/4* = 4/3* = 17 --> ESPN 300 = 2

--> Same 3 year period of time. Syracuse had 1 player rated in ESPN 300. No ESPN 4* players in 2013 and 1 in 2012.

Mississippi State isn't Michigan but it isn't Syracuse. It's somewhere in between like most of the CFB teams but it's not winning games with 2 star players. They might play but they aren't the main reason they are winning.

 

[Crusty]

I think that's why people aren't saying Lester is a disaster, but rather that they aren't sold on the guy. I mean why should we assume his system is going to work? None of us know what 's going to happen. We can't assume anything, and him going on air and saying he's running some combination of 4 NFL offenses doesn't help when SU fans have been promised a successful offense for over a decade. I know it's coach-speak, but he could be generic and leave it at "an offense designed to maximize what SU does best, and take advantage in areas where each opponent struggles", and people wouldn't get as worked up.

We know Marrone's teams didn't light up the scoreboard, but when you look at the gameplans against WV (especially where Provo was suddenly the featured target), you can see why people here felt a certain comfort with the ability to move the ball. Fair or unfair, Lester has the last 5 games of 2014, the final 2 being complete duds against marginal opponents. The pressure is squarely on the offense this year.

I don't think anyone is assuming anything - some are just more optimistic than others. To criticize a radio interview where Lester does not want to give too much away and talks in gobblygook is just silly. All the systems he mentioned are all derivations of the Denver offense rather than combinations of different systems. He told us more in that interview that we had known before. It fits with the Elmhurst game tapes. I am sure he has modified things based on hs experience the last two years.

Hackett didn't have a label for his offense either. He said it was based on their 2-minute drill with a simplified playbook. He said that he needed to come up with a "cool" name for it.

All I know is that we don't have the size or speed to run the spread and we appear to have a better fit for our skills. I prefer to be optimistic. If Lester's offense works great - if not Coyle will pull the plug and start all over. Whatever we say or think will be just for our own amusement.

 

[baggerbob]

Eh, I wouldn't get too worked up about Lester's comments. It's typical coach speak intended to get someone to prepare for all sorts of looks, etc. By the 3rd game teams know what offense we will run.

I did see a bit of that Elmhurst film, but it's d3 players there and tough to get a good grasp. If I really had to ballpark it, I would wager the theme of the offense is going to be somewhere between RRod's and Marone/Hackett's pro spread.

RRod's zone running scheme is straight out of the Shannahan / Kubiak mold but out of the spread and does favor mismatches out of the HBack position (Tavon Austin would be an extreme example of this). Marrone\Hackett favored WCO passing concepts out of the spread as well.

This is fine in theory, is just has to be executed properly, like any offense. I can find plenty of crappy hurry up spread offenses (see Syracuse 2014). I'll withhold judgement until I see the thing work or fail. No use getting happy or angry now unless you want to get away from the TPS reports.

A voice of reason, someone who waits until he actually has seen the offense in action, before he makes a decision of whether it is good or not.

 

[Crusty]

Eh, I wouldn't get too worked up about Lester's comments. It's typical coach speak intended to get someone to prepare for all sorts of looks, etc. By the 3rd game teams know what offense we will run.

I did see a bit of that Elmhurst film, but it's d3 players there and tough to get a good grasp. If I really had to ballpark it, I would wager the theme of the offense is going to be somewhere between RRod's and Marone/Hackett's pro spread.

RRod's zone running scheme is straight out of the Shannahan / Kubiak mold but out of the spread and does favor mismatches out of the HBack position (Tavon Austin would be an extreme example of this). Marrone\Hackett favored WCO passing concepts out of the spread as well.

This is fine in theory, is just has to be executed properly, like any offense. I can find plenty of crappy hurry up spread offenses (see Syracuse 2014). I'll withhold judgement until I see the thing work or fail. No use getting happy or angry now unless you want to get away from the TPS reports.

Well said. I can't help but think that had DM stayed, 2013 would have been a good year. We had the backs for Hackett's system and, while Hunt is no Nassib, he could run the zone read far better. The OL play would have been better if only because of continuity.

If we are correct about Lester, I will be happy to return to a similar offense. I think it is a system we have a far etter chance of running with our talent.

 

[CuseOnly]

Or you could also look at ESPN which grades out less players... I agree they do have some 2 star players but they have mostly 3 star players as do a majority of CFB teams in the country but they also have their fair share of top ranked 4 star and ESPN 150/300 recruits as well. The cream of the crop recruits.

You mentioned Michigan as having superior talent and Mississippi State as having mostly nobodies. Clearly Michigan will have more overall talent but it's not like Mississippi State is winning mainly with 2 stars.

2012
Michigan: 5* = 0/4* = 10/3* = 15 --> ESPN 150 = 4
Miss State: 5* = 0/4* = 3/3* = 21 --> ESPN 150 = 1/300 = 2
*** Miss State = 28 Commits; 21 being 3 stars, 3 being 4 stars. Not a lot of 2 stars

2013
Michigan: 5* = 0/4* = 17/3* = 9 --> ESPN 300 = 15
Miss State: 5* = 0/4* = 8/3* = 12 --> ESPN 300 = 4

2014
Michigan: 5* = 1/4* = 10/3* = 5 --> ESPN 300 = 9
Miss State: 5* = 0/4* = 4/3* = 17 --> ESPN 300 = 2

--> Same 3 year period of time. Syracuse had 1 player rated in ESPN 300. No ESPN 4* players in 2013 and 1 in 2012.

Mississippi State isn't Michigan but it isn't Syracuse. It's somewhere in between like most of the CFB teams but it's not winning games with 2 star players. They might play but they aren't the main reason they are winning.

What you failed to mention was how many of those 4* and 5* kids actually saw the field for Miss St, which is something I actually looked up according their 2-deep roster each week.

There were still only 4 kids that were ranked 4* or above that saw the field and actually contributed, not to mention their QB was a 3* kid out of HS as well.

Why do I care what Michigan did, they stunk last year. just goes to show that talent is not everything and also proves my point. Michigan couldn't compete in the B1G with better talent and Miss St. was ranked at #1 in the country in the SEC.

Not sure what you are saying exactly.

 

[Chip]

Its not a syndrome ... you made an ignorant statement ... and I could care less what your mother did for a living ... it has nothing to do with rockstar status ... it has to do with the fact that everyone here cares about this program and whether the reason is you are a booster or you are a parent or a fan or an alum it really truly doesn't matter. People get on a guy like TheCusian for always being upbeat well the same could be said for constant negativity and the constant posting about statistics that have no bearing at all on what will happen this season ... none ... QBR, offensive rank ... none of it ... if they were such a guarantee 2012 would have never happened ... wash rinse repeat with the constant barrage of the same meaningless numbers ... if they play like crap this year go for it ... knock yourselves out ... but can we at least have them snap the friggin ball before you get your panties in a wad over stats?

This post, if really meant for me, makes less sense than your last one. But it seems like you're releasing a lot of tension, so there's a positive I'll drink to.

 

[wfschrec]

This post, if really meant for me, makes less sense than your last one. But it seems like you're releasing a lot of tension, so there's a positive I'll drink to.

Makes complete sense not my fault you can't follow ... try putting down the drink. Maybe quoting you was the mistake I made. Not sure why its so hard for you to follow.

 

[Bayside44]

So I had a roommate that played for a hall of fame coach. My roommate told me that coach, we'll call him JB was an excellent tactician and if the players would/could just execute what he drew up, they would not be beat. Thinking of that made me think of another example of this in action;

1995 Syracuse vs Arkansas NCAA basketball. SU is up a point on #2 seed and defending champion Arkansas. There is something like 5 seconds to go and Arkansas has to inbound from under their rim coming out of a TO. Lucious Jackson steals the inbound pass with an incredible diving play on the ball. Talent or execution? I say talent. In the same moment, Lawrence Moten calls a time out that Syracuse didn't have. Technical foul. Arkansas ties up the game and we lose in OT. Talent or execution? I say Execution. I will take that comment a step further. As alluded to above, my roommate was in the huddle before the ball was inbounded. He said the coaches all said there were no time outs left. The plan was put in place in that everyone was told not to call time out. Just the year before, Arkansas won because Chris Webber called a TO Michigan didn't have. Moten didn't execute the play called in the huddle (don't call time out).

We would have won that game with talent, but we lost it with execution. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Why did you have to do that?:bang:

 

[Full_Rebar]

I'm just glad that we've come to an agreement in this thread- that Snyder and Mullen are much better coaches than Brady Hoke.

 

[Chip]

I'm just glad that we've come to an agreement in this thread- that Snyder and Mullen are much better coaches than Brady Hoke.

And that we don't have Snyder or Mullen roaming our sidelines, so in the end this exercise was as depressing as everything else.

I don't think we have Hoke either. Shafer at least has a male sounding voice.

 

[Scooch]

I'm just glad that we've come to an agreement in this thread- that Snyder and Mullen are much better coaches than Brady Hoke.

Yes, talent that is better than ours can be maximized by a Hall of Fame coach.

SyracuseFan.com, killing it with insight.

 

[retro44]

If lester was to read this thread......

he would turn to the wishbone offense

 

[BlackKnight76]

Holy crap. This may be the worst thread I've ever read on this board. What a disaster.

Idea: since Tim Lester is going to be the offensive coordinator this year, how about we wait until the Rhode Island game, we watch that game, and then we decide whether or not to get the pitchforks and head to Manley? Somehow, I think the games are a bit more important than some radio interview in June.

Just a thought.

 

[SoBristol]

Talent has been an issue. We didn't have schemes that enticed talent to come here during that tine though. This is, at least, a reason for optimism since Washington and Culpepper are excited for Lester's vision.

My reason for optimism in 2015 (for the offense only -- defense is a big worry) is we have a veteran QB, some talent at WR and hybrid-back, and returning starters in the OL and TE. If Hunt is healthy, Lester has ingredients to work with. Starts with the QB, some weapons, and an OL that can block.

I am happy you are optimistic about Lester's vision (a scheme that will entice talent!). But I assume that is because you, like me and many others on this thread, have only some vague indications of what it will be. If Washington & Culpepper have figured it out, sight unseen, they are very perceptive at a young age! The rest of us will have to wait for more info.

 

[TheCusian]

My reason for optimism in 2015 (for the offense only -- defense is a big worry) is we have a veteran QB, some talent at WR and hybrid-back, and returning starters in the OL and TE. If Hunt is healthy, Lester has ingredients to work with. Starts with the QB, some weapons, and an OL that can block. I am happy you are optimistic about Lester's vision (a scheme that will entice talent!). But I assume that is because you, like me and many others on this thread, have only some vague indications of what it will be. If Washington & Culpepper have figured it out, sight unseen, they are very perceptive at a young age! The rest of us will have to wait for more info.

Rex and Washington have seen practice footage unavailable to us. So - not exactly sight unseen. Rex said it's similar to what they run at his school.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Holy crap. This may be the worst thread I've ever read on this board. What a disaster.

Idea: since Tim Lester is going to be the offensive coordinator this year, how about we wait until the Rhode Island game, we watch that game, and then we decide whether or not to get the pitchforks and head to Manley? Somehow, I think the games are a bit more important than some radio interview in June.

Just a thought.

You've certainly read worse.

 

[Millhouse]

Holy crap. This may be the worst thread I've ever read on this board. What a disaster.

Idea: since Tim Lester is going to be the offensive coordinator this year, how about we wait until the Rhode Island game, we watch that game, and then we decide whether or not to get the pitchforks and head to Manley? Somehow, I think the games are a bit more important than some radio interview in June.

Just a thought.

It's not just a radio interview. If he was telling the truth in the interview and he really is able to synthesize multiple complex NFL offenses into concepts that a college kid can run despite never having worked for any of those teams, then he should've been able to do something with the college offense he worked with for almost 2 years. this isn't his first year as OC. If he wasn't telling the truth in the interview, it's very telling that he doesn't have a decent and plausible story.

Say what you want about holgorsen but his story has always been clear since he went to oklahoma state. he took leach's offense and ran the ball more. the guys who inherit the crazy people's offenses are often better.

there's no confusion about the top 10 offenses last year. there were 4 of them. none of them were very influenced by anything in the NFL unless you look at it at a completely superficial level.

i'm not buying the rich rodriguez nfl stuff either. concocted this stuff at glenville state, took it to tulane, then made woody dantzler the early prototype modern college qb. utterly college

 

[Alsacs]

Holy crap. This may be the worst thread I've ever read on this board. What a disaster.

Idea: since Tim Lester is going to be the offensive coordinator this year, how about we wait until the Rhode Island game, we watch that game, and then we decide whether or not to get the pitchforks and head to Manley? Somehow, I think the games are a bit more important than some radio interview in June.

Just a thought.

If you think this is the worst that is your opinion which is fine. After Lester's performance as OC in the second half last year he used up all of his patience and if he is going to give an interview he needs to realize there is a portion of this fanbase that gets Vietnam flashbacks when we hear the offense being described as similar to pro style offense we clearly don't have the personnel to execute.

 

[Chip]

Holy crap. This may be the worst thread I've ever read on this board. What a disaster. Idea: since Tim Lester is going to be the offensive coordinator this year, how about we wait until the Rhode Island game, we watch that game, and then we decide whether or not to get the pitchforks and head to Manley? Somehow, I think the games are a bit more important than some radio interview in June. Just a thought.

We don't have a choice but to do that. What we write here is meaningless summer noise.

But when you read something that looks like it was pulled from a 10 years ago today... article, people tend to start typing quickly to release frustration. It turns to chaos when we have new fans who weren't around for that mess.