Lester on his Offense

[SoBristol]

That's where I struggle. It's not like we play this ugly, grind it out style and churn out 10 win seasons. We lose. A lot. Meanwhile, other schools with similar talent have found a pretty clear path to competitiveness thanks to offensive scheme.

Maybe Lester has a magic trick. He has to. Otherwise, we keep reinforcing the low ceiling we've built for ourselves.

In fairness, we found a path to competitiveness in 2012 (when Nassib was at his best, surrounded by Smith, a couple of capable receivers, Hickey and Pugh at OT, Mackey at C) and in 2013 (when Hunt was healthy, though the defense was destroyed in 4 games, and Hunt gutted out wins with his running). We fell off track in 2014 when we struggled with under-recruited RF QBs and a true frosh QB -- none of whom had taken a single snap before that season. So, you can't really generalize about what "we" tend to do.
If you don't have much at QB, you have issues. Happened to Maryland the previous year.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

In fairness, we found a path to competitiveness in 2012 (when Nassib was at his best, surrounded by Smith, a couple of capable receivers, Hickey and Pugh at OT, Mackey at C) and in 2013 (when Hunt was healthy, though the defense was destroyed in 4 games, and Hunt gutted out wins with his running). We fell off track in 2014 when we struggled with under-recruited RF QBs and a true frosh QB -- none of whom had taken a single snap before that season. So, you can't really generalize about what "we" tend to do.
If you don't have much at QB, you have issues. Happened to Maryland the previous year.

No, I can generalize about what we do. This has been going on since McNabb.

2012 happened once. 2013 is viewed favorably because we basically made a huge play on the last play of the season to get bowl eligible (we weren't even 100% certain at the time that we'd make it to a bowl) and then we clawed out another last minute victory against Minnesota. All the credit in the world to those coaches and players for doing that, but it doesn't hide that the offense that season was bad.

 

[TheCusian]

No, I can generalize about what we do. This has been going on since McNabb. 2012 happened once. 2013 is viewed favorably because we basically made a huge play on the last play of the season to get bowl eligible (we weren't even 100% certain at the time that we'd make it to a bowl) and then we clawed out another last minute victory against Minnesota. All the credit in the world to those coaches and players for doing that, but it doesn't hide that the offense that season was bad.

You can group those OC's all together if you like - but it's BS to do so for someone who hasn't even run a play in his system here.

 

[Full_Rebar]

I think that's why people aren't saying Lester is a disaster, but rather that they aren't sold on the guy. I mean why should we assume his system is going to work? None of us know what 's going to happen. We can't assume anything, and him going on air and saying he's running some combination of 4 NFL offenses doesn't help when SU fans have been promised a successful offense for over a decade. I know it's coach-speak, but he could be generic and leave it at "an offense designed to maximize what SU does best, and take advantage in areas where each opponent struggles", and people wouldn't get as worked up.

We know Marrone's teams didn't light up the scoreboard, but when you look at the gameplans against WV (especially where Provo was suddenly the featured target), you can see why people here felt a certain comfort with the ability to move the ball. Fair or unfair, Lester has the last 5 games of 2014, the final 2 being complete duds against marginal opponents. The pressure is squarely on the offense this year.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

You can group those OC's all together if you like - but it's BS to do so for someone who hasn't even run a play in his system here.

STOP HIDING BEHIND THAT

Holy Hell, it is not a clean slate. It's not. Last season happened. Lester was handed the job. It went horribly. That happened. We played games and failed to perform. IT HAPPENED. It's not all injuries and mid-season changes.

I would give Lester more slack had we conducted an OC search and he won the job because he as the best choice. But it didn't go that way.

Look, the burden is not on us fans that are tired of seeing stuffty offense out of our program year after year when we can see real examples happening right now of similar schools with similar talent achieving things that sound ridiculous to us because of how low our offense is. The burden is on the coaches to make it a lot better, and not bottom-of-the-barrel to mediocre. To make it good. That comes with the territory after 15 years of crap. Not benefit of the doubt.

And this isn't just me. That's a huge part of the reason why we struggle to draw at the gate. It's not BS, it's reality.

Again, there are real things to celebrate with this program - recruiting, the 3.0 club, some of the talent currently on the roster, etc. But with how bad our offense has been for how long, yes, the truth is, we're talking about guilty until proven innocent. Lester's a grown up and paid well. He can handle the reality that it's on him to win over fans.

They're going to have the chance to prove it on the field. They have to do that.

 

[SWC75]

?

to not punt the ball away, you have to take some chances. maybe we should go victory formation at the beginning of the game. no turnovers, perfectly executed.

ohio state and florida state were ok last year with 58 turnovers between them

No mystery here: if you have turnovers or punt, you're not keeping the ball. The only alternative is to gain yardage until you score.

I'm just agreeing with the statement that executing plays and not making mistakes causes you to keep the ball and that's good.

 

[KellySyracuse]

ugh, I don't want to be depressed and notching losses before the season even starts. I guess I prefer to drink the kool-aid, look for the sunshine and rainbows because it's a new season and all hope has not been dashed just yet.

 

[Chip]

Completely missed the point. Well done.

Yeah, he swung and missed badly. As if I was comparing who was more invested.

Oh well, it's father of player syndrome. They could tell some posters here that their mother was a w_hore and some of those same people would still click like. It's a level of rock star status that makes Mick Jagger jealous.

 

[SoBristol]

No, I can generalize about what we do. This has been going on since McNabb.

2012 happened once. 2013 is viewed favorably because we basically made a huge play on the last play of the season ...

What exactly is "this"?
You are lumping together several very different OCs and several very different QBs. True, we haven't had successful offenses, but we have sure tried a lot of approaches. Marrone tried a newly hired OC in his first season, and took over himself in mid-season. In 2013, we started with a passing attack with an Oklahoma transfer, and switched to Hunt after a flurry of turn-overs, and his running was the key ingredient in the few wins we achieved.
Last season, we had a different set of plays for each of 4 different QBs, and we switched out the OC in mid-season. So, what is "this"?

In this period you want to generalize about, how many of our OL have been drafted, how many QBs, how many WRs, how many TEs? What did we have behind Hunt last year at QB? You sweep right past the biggest single issue.

 

[Alsacs]

STOP HIDING BEHIND THAT

Holy Hell, it is not a clean slate. It's not. Last season happened. Lester was handed the job. It went horribly. That happened. We played games and failed to perform. IT HAPPENED. It's not all injuries and mid-season changes.

I would give Lester more slack had we conducted an OC search and he won the job because he as the best choice. But it didn't go that way.

Look, the burden is not on us fans that are tired of seeing stuffty offense out of our program year after year when we can see real examples happening right now of similar schools with similar talent achieving things that sound ridiculous to us because of how low our offense is. The burden is on the coaches to make it a lot better, and not bottom-of-the-barrel to mediocre. To make it good. That comes with the territory after 15 years of crap. Not benefit of the doubt.

And this isn't just me. That's a huge part of the reason why we struggle to draw at the gate. It's not BS, it's reality.

Again, there are real things to celebrate with this program - recruiting, the 3.0 club, some of the talent currently on the roster, etc. But with how bad our offense has been for how long, yes, the truth is, we're talking about guilty until proven innocent. Lester's a grown up and paid well. He can handle the reality that it's on him to win over fans.

They're going to have the chance to prove it on the field. They have to do that.

I mean TheCusian this where your patience argument just loses. The guy had the job last year and HAS TO OWN that. I get he took over midseason, but patience is thin and he used his honeymoon. It show me time right off the bat. None of this complete secret stuff. Our spring game was insulting for any fans that went. Nobody expects to see them empty out the playbook, but doing nothing in that game and then comparing your offense to 4 NFL ones is just stupid.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

What exactly is "this"?
You are lumping together several very different OCs and several very different QBs. True, we haven't had successful offenses, but we have sure tried a lot of approaches. Marrone tried a newly hired OC in his first season, and took over himself in mid-season. In 2013, we started with a passing attack with an Oklahoma transfer, and switched to Hunt after a flurry of turn-overs, and his running was the key ingredient in the few wins we achieved.
Last season, we had a different set of plays for each of 4 different QBs, and we switched out the OC in mid-season. So, what is "this"?

In this period you want to generalize about, how many of our OL have been drafted, how many QBs, how many WRs, how many TEs? What did we have behind Hunt last year at QB? You sweep right past the biggest single issue.

"This" is the crap we've seen. It all runs together.

Get it?

Talent has been an issue. We didn't have schemes that enticed talent to come here during that tine though. This is, at least, a reason for optimism since Washington and Culpepper are excited for Lester's vision.

 

[TheCusian]

STOP HIDING BEHIND THAT Holy Hell, it is not a clean slate. It's not. Last season happened. Lester was handed the job. It went horribly. That happened. We played games and failed to perform. IT HAPPENED. It's not all injuries and mid-season changes. I would give Lester more slack had we conducted an OC search and he won the job because he as the best choice. But it didn't go that way. Look, the burden is not on us fans that are tired of seeing stuffty offense out of our program year after year when we can see real examples happening right now of similar schools with similar talent achieving things that sound ridiculous to us because of how low our offense is. The burden is on the coaches to make it a lot better, and not bottom-of-the-barrel to mediocre. To make it good. That comes with the territory after 15 years of crap. Not benefit of the doubt. And this isn't just me. That's a huge part of the reason why we struggle to draw at the gate. It's not BS, it's reality. Again, there are real things to celebrate with this program - recruiting, the 3.0 club, some of the talent currently on the roster, etc. But with how bad our offense has been for how long, yes, the truth is, we're talking about guilty until proven innocent. Lester's a grown up and paid well. He can handle the reality that it's on him to win over fans. They're going to have the chance to prove it on the field. They have to do that.

It's still true. Of course he has to prove it on the field. Of course he's paid well and knows the deal. Of course he has to win over fans. And finally - we will see on the field of he's what we need. I'm not hiding behind anything - I'm just calling you out for calling the thing a dud before it even hits the field.

I've said in this thread that Lester needs to own a part of last year. So does Shafer. But the circumstances were sooooo beyond normal (not his system, true freshman QB, 4th string QB seeing action, half his oline out) I have no idea how much blame you can assign. Or what the takeaway was/is regarding the future.

Blame his examples if you want - but I'm confident he didn't hear Greggers OC's mention done if those names. He was trying to dumb it down for the radio and failed. That's it.

 

[CuseOnly]

Not how college football works

Couldn't disagree more, read BCUBS post:
Michigan. Less than perfect execution; superior talent. They sucked.
Kansas State. Perfect execution; marginal talent. Final ranking of 11th. They didn't suck.

You can have all the talent you want, don't execute and you stink. Take a look at Mississipi State as well last year, roster stocked with 2 and 3 star kids.

 

[TheCusian]

I mean TheCusian this where your patience argument just loses. The guy had the job last year and HAS TO OWN that. I get he took over midseason, but patience is thin and he used his honeymoon. It show me time right off the bat. None of this complete secret stuff. Our spring game was insulting for any fans that went. Nobody expects to see them empty out the playbook, but doing nothing in that game and then comparing your offense to 4 NFL ones is just stupid.

How much does he need to own exactly? All of it? Do injuries (half your starters out) not count for anything? Running another guys system?

He did a complete install of the new offense and threw out Mcits! What does that tell you?

He may be unqualified. He may be a dud. But if you're using last year as some kind of barometer for how things will look like this year, I think you're sorely mistaken.

The spring game is for the fans. I wanted to see more. When I wasn't chasing my 3yr old around the bleachers I looked up and didn't see much. Disappointed. Not sure how much bearing that has on this year.

Wish he'd explained himself better. Not really sure how much that matters either.

 

[TheCusian]

"This" is the crap we've seen. It all runs together. Get it? Talent has been an issue. We didn't have schemes that enticed talent to come here during that tine though. This is, at least, a reason for optimism since Washington and Culpepper are excited for Lester's vision.

No. It runs together for fans. Pretty sure each new OC is not forced to use the previous coaches playbook. You're letting your personal disgust with the past affect your prediction for the future. Prisoner of the past, if you will.

I am encouraged by Washington and Rex.

 

[Millhouse]

Couldn't disagree more, read BCUBS post: Michigan. Less than perfect execution; superior talent. They sucked. Kansas State. Perfect execution; marginal talent. Final ranking of 11th. They didn't suck. You can have all the talent you want, don't execute and you stink. Take a look at Mississipi State as well last year, roster stocked with 2 and 3 star kids.

hoke is a Midwest pro style meathead who doesn't know what he wants to do on offense with lousy offensive coordinators

Snyder is a good offensive coach who spreads it way out so their plug and play juco qbs have success running to ball out of the gate

Miss st has an ex Meyer assistant running his college offense. Thank you for making my point

 

[qdawgg]

Couldn't disagree more, read BCUBS post:
Michigan. Less than perfect execution; superior talent. They sucked.
Kansas State. Perfect execution; marginal talent. Final ranking of 11th. They didn't suck.

You can have all the talent you want, don't execute and you stink. Take a look at Mississipi State as well last year, roster stocked with 2 and 3 star kids.

You should probably look up the facts before making statements. They didn't win with 2 and 3 star players because I'm pretty sure all the 4 star players they had weren't riding the bench.

Completely incorrect statement.

 

[CuseOnly]

because what lester described could also describe cubit's offense. and because Lester hasn't worked under anyone but him (even if McDonald was competent, lester clearly doesn't like respect that offense)

lester described cubit's offense perfectly and cubit was his mentor, but that doesn't matter to you

What Lester described could be interpreted 1000 different ways...this board for the most part chooses to be negative about 999 of those interpretations.

Ridiculous.

Can't wait to come back here and call each and every one of you out about it. I will eat crow if that doesn't happen but I am betting I will be doing a lot of calling out.

 

[Millhouse]

What Lester described could be interpreted 1000 different ways...this board for the most part chooses to be negative about 999 of those interpretations. Ridiculous. Can't wait to come back here and call each and every one of you out about it. I will eat crow if that doesn't happen but I am betting I will be doing a lot of calling out.

It would've been nice if there was a college influence cited there but I can see why he distanced himself from guy who played his son at Rutgers

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It's still true. Of course he has to prove it on the field. Of course he's paid well and knows the deal. Of course he has to win over fans. And finally - we will see on the field of he's what we need. I'm not hiding behind anything - I'm just calling you out for calling the thing a dud before it even hits the field.

I've said in this thread that Lester needs to own a part of last year. So does Shafer. But the circumstances were sooooo beyond normal (not his system, true freshman QB, 4th string QB seeing action, half his oline out) I have no idea how much blame you can assign. Or what the takeaway was/is regarding the future.

Blame his examples if you want - but I'm confident he didn't hear Greggers OC's mention done if those names. He was trying to dumb it down for the radio and failed. That's it.

I'm not calling the offense this year a dud yet. I'm hoping we see something special.

I am saying Lester has a dud under his belt and that does not inspire a ton of confidence.

 

[CuseOnly]

You should probably look up the facts before making statements. They didn't win with 2 and 3 star players because I'm pretty sure all the 4 star players they had weren't riding the bench.

Completely incorrect statement.

REALLY Now...

2010 recruiting class - According to skoot, they had 3 4* recruits in 2010 and only 2 started in 2014 (both would have been seniors or RS seniors).
2011 recruiting class - No 4* recruits at all, couldn't have been any 4 star or higher starters in 2014.
2012 recruiting class - 4* and 5* recruits = Beniquez Brown, Denico Autry, Quay Evans, Nick James, Will Redmond - The only starter was Beniquez Brown.
2013 recruiting class - 5 4* recruits and only 1 saw the field = Justin Cox

So, for 22 starting positions they had only 4 impact players that started or played all season. Are you pretty sure or absolutely sure?

The other 38 players on the 2-deep were for the most part 2-3* players.

Looked them up...

 

[CuseOnly]

It would've been nice if there was a college influence cited there but I can see why he distanced himself from guy who played his son at Rutgers

What difference does it make if there was a college influence? There are influences to offenses all over the place, there is not one offense at any level that can say it was never influenced by someone else's principles.

What works is what works regardless of where it came from and who came up with it.

Every league NCAA Football, NFL, NBA, NCAA Basketball, etc...just a little secret, they are all copycat leagues and will follow what works.

At the heart of every principle from every offense and defense is execution, without it you are sunk. Period.

 

[Millhouse]

What difference does it make if there was a college influence? There are influences to offenses all over the place, there is not one offense at any level that can say it was never influenced by someone else's principles. What works is what works regardless of where it came from and who came up with it. Every league NCAA Football, NFL, NBA, NCAA Basketball, etc...just a little secret, they are all copycat leagues and will follow what works. At the heart of every principle from every offense and defense is execution, without it you are sunk. Period.

This is wrong. College and pro is very different and the best offenses in both are even more different

 

[Crusty]

And against DIII players

Of course, and the P5 offensive players will do just as well against P5 defenses.

 

[TheCusian]

This is wrong. College and pro is very different and the best offenses in both are even more different

Only in your head, Millhouse. Colleges stole the west coast offense, pros stole the zone read, etc. There are things that don't translate fully (QBs getting lit up by pro defenders running the zone read, college QB's not accurate or without the full time mentality to master some things). But overall, yeah - principles and concepts are adopted, added, modified by coaches everywhere.