Lester on his Offense

[Full_Rebar]

My only question about the schools with "marginal" talent is how many NFL picks/roster guys do they have over the last 3 years when compared to SU?

 

[Alsacs]

it is so clear to me that syracuse needs a head coach with his offense. scott shafer might have success somewhere else. but after so many years (excluding) of not knowing what the hell we're trying to do on offense, how in the world can we be in this boat again where the offensive coordinator can't tell us what we're going to do?

maybe some programs can get by on hardnosed and defense and kitchen sink offenses but not us. it's been too many years of bad, unidentifiable, pro influenced offenses. Coyle has a year to figure this out. Please god let him talk to some donors and fans with any awareness of college football outside of syracuse today.

I really hope this is true. I like SS and find him to be a good defensive mind, but college football has become an offensive game. You need to be able to score in the 30s to win game something we have only 2 times in 21 games against P5 competition during his tenure as HC.

Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it. If people think we are going score in the 30's against P5 competition I would love to here how.

 

[Scooch]

1. Couldn't care less how much time, money, energy is given. 2. There are lots of legitimate questions/doubts/concerns going into this season. Doesn't mean a person has to be a douche-bag about it and almost solely focus on that.

I hope your son thoroughly enjoys his time at SU. It's a wonderful institution where he'll make lifetime friends and get an education that will offer him a multitude of opportunities.

I would suggest you care about #1. Those people (and I'm not including myself) create the athletic and educational opportunities your son will take advantage of. Without them there is no Syracuse University.

Showing a little gratitude isn't so bad.

 

[TheCusian]

it is so clear to me that syracuse needs a head coach with his offense. scott shafer might have success somewhere else. but after so many years (excluding) of not knowing what the hell we're trying to do on offense, how in the world can we be in this boat again where the offensive coordinator can't tell us what we're going to do?

maybe some programs can get by on hardnosed and defense and kitchen sink offenses but not us. it's been too many years of bad, unidentifiable, pro influenced offenses. Coyle has a year to figure this out. Please god let him talk to some donors and fans with any awareness of college football outside of syracuse today.

I don't know how to say this in a different way. There is no correlation between being able to talk about your offense to the media and the performance of said offense in a game.

You keep deciding ahead of time that it's a failure. It's simple, man. Couch your comments. Stop acting like you know when you don't.

 

[TheCusian]

I really hope this is true. I like SS and find him to be a good defensive mind, but college football has become an offensive game. You need to be able to score in the 30s to win game something we have only 2 times in 21 games against P5 competition during his tenure as HC.

Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it. If people think we are going score in the 30's against P5 competition I would love to here how.

If you're a coaching tree guy, this should help:

"The Illini improved from 119th nationally in both yards and points to 52nd in yards and 61st in points. Quarterback Nathan Scheelhaase led the Big Ten in passing (3,272 yards), and Illinois finished 22nd nationally in pass offense with 64 plays of 20 yards or longer."

Millhouse has been saying that coaching trees matter. Well, Illinois seems to be just fine with similar talent. I'd give my left nut to lead the ACC in passing, 22nd nationally.

 

[Alsacs]

If you're a coaching tree guy, this should help:

"The Illini improved from 119th nationally in both yards and points to 52nd in yards and 61st in points. Quarterback Nathan Scheelhaase led the Big Ten in passing (3,272 yards), and Illinois finished 22nd nationally in pass offense with 64 plays of 20 yards or longer."

Millhouse has been saying that coaching trees matter. Well, Illinois seems to be just fine with similar talent. I'd give my left nut to lead the ACC in passing, 22nd nationally.

If Ohio State didn't blow teams out their QBs would lead the conference in passing, but they play 2 QBs and have had Hyde and Elliott run for crazy amount of yards.

3272 yards would be amazing here, but I don't see it happening. If our offense averages mid 2o's PPG I would take it right now. However, I honestly don't think we should expect it.

 

[NineOneSeven]

This thread has potential

 

[Millhouse]

I don't know how to say this in a different way. There is no correlation between being able to talk about your offense to the media and the performance of said offense in a game. You keep deciding ahead of time that it's a failure. It's simple, man. Couch your comments. Stop acting like you know when you don't.

Sure there is. Look at last year's top ten offenses

 

[NJCuse97]

I played college Bball for a hall of fame coach. We had decent talent and beat many teams that had more talent then we did because of great coaching. The right coach can win with good not great talent. Shaf can coach D he can recruit and he can motivate. We simply lack an O. Lets hope that Lester makes it happen

So I had a roommate that played for a hall of fame coach. My roommate told me that coach, we'll call him JB was an excellent tactician and if the players would/could just execute what he drew up, they would not be beat. Thinking of that made me think of another example of this in action;

1995 Syracuse vs Arkansas NCAA basketball. SU is up a point on #2 seed and defending champion Arkansas. There is something like 5 seconds to go and Arkansas has to inbound from under their rim coming out of a TO. Lucious Jackson steals the inbound pass with an incredible diving play on the ball. Talent or execution? I say talent. In the same moment, Lawrence Moten calls a time out that Syracuse didn't have. Technical foul. Arkansas ties up the game and we lose in OT. Talent or execution? I say Execution. I will take that comment a step further. As alluded to above, my roommate was in the huddle before the ball was inbounded. He said the coaches all said there were no time outs left. The plan was put in place in that everyone was told not to call time out. Just the year before, Arkansas won because Chris Webber called a TO Michigan didn't have. Moten didn't execute the play called in the huddle (don't call time out).

We would have won that game with talent, but we lost it with execution. The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

[KaiserUEO]

I don't know how to say this in a different way. There is no correlation between being able to talk about your offense to the media and the performance of said offense in a game.

You keep deciding ahead of time that it's a failure. It's simple, man. Couch your comments. Stop acting like you know when you don't.

there most certainly is.

its called intelligence.

he should be able to in 15-20 seconds, be able to tell us what his offense is. just the basics, not every wrinkle, just the foundation.

spread
option
spread option
wing
vertical
run and shoot
west coast

three yards and a cloud of dust, the packer sweep...the i give up and chuck it, the punt...SOMETHING!!

hes the OC of a P5, by definition he has to be able to talk coherently to the media.

none of that mumbo jumbo.

 

[TheCusian]

If Ohio State didn't blow teams out their QBs would lead the conference in passing, but they play 2 QBs and have had Hyde and Elliott run for crazy amount of yards. 3272 yards would be amazing here, but I don't see it happening. If our offense averages mid 2o's PPG I would take it right now. However, I honestly don't think we should expect it.

Why not? That's what changing OC's and a new system gets you: hope.

If not, Shafer and Lester will be replaced with a guy hand-picked by an AD who seems rather competent.

 

[TheCusian]

Sure there is. Look at last year's top ten offenses

Quotes please

 

[Scooch]

So I had a roommate that played for a hall of fame coach. My roommate told me that coach, we'll call him JB was an excellent tactician and if the players would/could just execute what he drew up, they would not be beat. Thinking of that made me think of another example of this in action; 1995 Syracuse vs Arkansas NCAA basketball. SU is up a point on #2 seed and defending champion Arkansas. There is something like 5 seconds to go and Arkansas has to inbound from under their rim coming out of a TO. Lucious Jackson steals the inbound pass with an incredible diving play on the ball. Talent or execution? I say talent. In the same moment, Lawrence Moten calls a time out that Syracuse didn't have. Technical foul. Arkansas ties up the game and we lose in OT. Talent or execution? I say Execution. I will take that comment a step further. As alluded to above, my roommate was in the huddle before the ball was inbounded. He said the coaches all said there were no time outs left. The plan was put in place in that everyone was told not to call time out. Just the year before, Arkansas won because Chris Webber called a TO Michigan didn't have. Moten didn't execute the play called in the huddle (don't call time out). We would have won that game with talent, but we lost it with execution. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Great story!

My point was simply that someone said success is mostly execution with talent playing a smaller role. I think that's simplistic.

Someone can take a bunch of D3 players who execute flawlessly and I'll take a bunch of top flight D1 players who have mediocre execution and I'll win the vast majority of the time.

 

[TheCusian]

there most certainly is. its called intelligence. he should be able to in 15-20 seconds, be able to tell us what his offense is. just the basics, not every wrinkle, just the foundation. spread option spread option wing vertical run and shoot west coast three yards and a cloud of dust, the packer sweep...the i give up and chuck it, the punt...SOMETHING!! hes the OC of a P5, by definition he has to be able to talk coherently to the media. none of that mumbo jumbo.

BS. I could list tons of competent, smart coaches who were horrible at talking about football to the media. That's why half of them use coach speak. Easier to hide behind.

 

[Alsacs]

Why not? That's what changing OC's and a new system gets you: hope.

If not, Shafer and Lester will be replaced with a guy hand-picked by an AD who seems rather competent.

The worst thing Shafer did was give Lester the OC title during the season last year. Hope is hard to have when your offense looked a poorly as it did. I mean I don't care about the injuries that offense did not look prepared or even like it had a game plan other to avoid being completely blown out.

Those games can't be completely brushed under the carpet.

 

[SUskibum]

there most certainly is.

its called intelligence.

he should be able to in 15-20 seconds, be able to tell us what his offense is. just the basics, not every wrinkle, just the foundation.

spread
option
spread option
wing
vertical
run and shoot
west coast

three yards and a cloud of dust, the packer sweep...the i give up and chuck it, the punt...SOMETHING!!

hes the OC of a P5, by definition he has to be able to talk coherently to the media.

none of that mumbo jumbo.

Is it possible that he is being intentionally misleading/vague/scattered? Is it possible that same reason that 90% of P5 coaches close practices in the spring is the same reason he is not obliging the media/public with a roadmap to what he is installing?

I am not saying it's the reason, I am just asking. Maybe he sucks at communicating and couldn't explain finger painting to an MIT grad, I am just asking if it's possible.

 

[TheCusian]

The worst thing Shafer did was give Lester the OC title during the season last year. Hope is hard to have when your offense looked a poorly as it did. I mean I don't care about the injuries that offense did not look prepared or even like it had a game plan other to avoid being completely blown out. Those games can't be completely brushed under the carpet.

I think he was inbetween a rock and a hard place. Mcit had made it impossible to move fwd between performance and whatever internal issues/freezing in the booth. Needed someone to plug in. If you give Lester the temp title and you lose your top QB AND you believe that Lester is your guy - but you know he needs time to install your offense... What do you do?

You give him the job knowing it won't be pretty on offense. Hoping it gets better using Mcit's system and half your starters out. It didn't. I don't think Shafer was caught off guard.

 

[Alsacs]

I think he was inbetween a rock and a hard place. Mc. . . . it had made it impossible to move fwd between performance and whatever internal issues/freezing in the booth. Needed someone to plug in. If you give Lester the temp title and you lose your top QB AND you believe that Lester is your guy - but you know he needs time to install your offense... What do you do?

You give him the job knowing it won't be pretty on offense. Hoping it gets better using Mc. . . . it's system and half your starters out. It didn't. I don't think Shafer was caught off guard.

There are easier ways to handle it. Simple keep the OC title on McDonald even after he goes to the press and have the HC say it will be determined who will call the plays or even SS could have taken the bullet and say he will make the calls.

In Dallas the Cowboys have an OC Bill Callahan and passing game coordinator Scott Linehan. The play calls are made by Linehan even though Callahan is technically the OC. There are more than one way to skin the cat but after Mc... forced SS hand he gave the keys publicly to Lester. Sorry then you own your the results.

 

[NJCuse97]

Great story!

My point was simply that someone said success is mostly execution with talent playing a smaller role. I think that's simplistic.

Someone can take a bunch of D3 players who execute flawlessly and I'll take a bunch of top flight D1 players who have mediocre execution and I'll win the vast majority of the time.

So in that scenario, I totally see and agree with your point, but what I am not sure of, is are you implying we are a D3 talent team, or are you just making a point? For the record I don't think the talent gap is anywhere near as bad as that. That aside, the higher level you go, the more talent cancels talent (transcendent talent aside). That is where execution becomes that much more important because the margin for error is smaller. That is what a guy like Tom Coughlin goes crazy about. He built his reputation on it. It made him an enemy of players until they realized he was right. Strahan said so himself.

We have historically won with execution and built a reputation for execution. Think 1991 Florida for an example, or 1993 Fiesta. Heck 1995 Gator Bowl. Heck the 2012 Pinstripe Bowl was excellent execution of a game plan. Comments about the discipline of the O-line in recent years are legit. We need to shore some things up, especially if we are facing some positional talent deficits. I'd like to see us compete more completely. I'd rather our losses be close, and talent beat us than get blown out or beat ourselves with poor execution. I don't know of a coach that doesn't truly feel the same way. If we can consistently play well, more wins will come, due to the fact that we are executing better than last year (all things remain equal and something improves, its fair to expect a better result). When execution and wins improve, so will recruiting and that talent gap will close some. The fact that we seem to be recruiting well despite this (meaning after a 3-9 season with some poor execution) tells me it could happen faster than some people might believe at this moment.

 

[TheCusian]

There are easier ways to handle it. Simple keep the OC title on McDonald even after he goes to the press and have the HC say it will be determined who will call the plays or even SS could have taken the bullet and say he will make the calls. In Dallas the Cowboys have an OC Bill Callahan and passing game coordinator Scott Linehan. The play calls are made by Linehan even though Callahan is technically the OC. There are more than one way to skin the cat but after Mc... forced SS hand he gave the keys publicly to Lester. Sorry then you own your the results.

I don't think he owns the results all on his own. I think that's on Shafer. But injuries played a huge part too. But I'm not giving either of them a pass.

I'm saying we just haven't seen Lester actually call a play at Syracuse in his offense. For that we should at least be a touch hopeful.

 

[rosconey]

they claim it wasnt lesters offense- then who the hecks was it?

you cant tell me he couldnt tweek what was there to work a bit better, not nfl better just better -

he did nothing different in his 8th game as oc that he had done his first

he showed me nothing to get giddy about with his tempo or style

but this year he is going to light the college world on fire and joe adams doesnt have to coach because he recruits well- well then give him a less important position to coach other than the place it all starts from

 

[Alsacs]

I don't think he owns the results all on his own. I think that's on Shafer. But injuries played a huge part too. But I'm not giving either of them a pass.

I'm saying we just haven't seen Lester actually call a play at Syracuse in his offense. For that we should at least be a touch hopeful.

Then what Kaiser said is right. Bleeping speak correctly. That interview yesterday was horrible if he thinks people expect a pro style offense to work this year.

Any good coach looks at their personnel and adjusts their system to fit their personnel. Sorry we don't have a QB right now ready to run a pro West Coast offense style that was spoken about in the interview or the Shanahan/Kubiak system.

We could run the Seahawks power run offense, but we need the OL to be dominant and have a RB able to run like Marshawn Lynch.

I am basing my opinions on what I have seen from Lester as OC and what he has said. This secret garbage is crazy. By week 2 against Wake Forest we will have shown our offense on tape and we have owned Wake.

 

[NJCuse97]

but this year he is going to light the college world on fire and joe adams doesnt have to coach because he recruits well- well then give him a less important position to coach other than the place it all starts from

This is an important part of what I was trying to say. You can't put the cart before the horse and forget to coach because you're too busy recruiting. I for one am not totally sold on Adam as the O-line coach. I know they didn't have all the pieces in place all season, but I was nervous about his ability to take on that position when he came in, and performance, execution, injuries, and even player comments and quotes have implied that concern may have been justified. With a new coach to help out the position, and with a new system that he and the linemen claim to comprehend better, he may show better this year, but I don't think we can sacrifice coaching for recruiting. I think that's what Gerg did and what McDonald did. It will take longer to get the necessary talent, but it will be built on a better foundation.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

maybe some programs can get by on hardnosed and defense and kitchen sink offenses but not us. it's been too many years of bad, unidentifiable, pro influenced offenses.

That's where I struggle. It's not like we play this ugly, grind it out style and churn out 10 win seasons. We lose. A lot. Meanwhile, other schools with similar talent have found a pretty clear path to competitiveness thanks to offensive scheme.

Maybe Lester has a magic trick. He has to. Otherwise, we keep reinforcing the low ceiling we've built for ourselves.

 

[CIL]

Eh, I wouldn't get too worked up about Lester's comments. It's typical coach speak intended to get someone to prepare for all sorts of looks, etc. By the 3rd game teams know what offense we will run.

I did see a bit of that Elmhurst film, but it's d3 players there and tough to get a good grasp. If I really had to ballpark it, I would wager the theme of the offense is going to be somewhere between RRod's and Marone/Hackett's pro spread.

RRod's zone running scheme is straight out of the Shannahan / Kubiak mold but out of the spread and does favor mismatches out of the HBack position (Tavon Austin would be an extreme example of this). Marrone\Hackett favored WCO passing concepts out of the spread as well.

This is fine in theory, is just has to be executed properly, like any offense. I can find plenty of crappy hurry up spread offenses (see Syracuse 2014). I'll withhold judgement until I see the thing work or fail. No use getting happy or angry now unless you want to get away from the TPS reports.