Let’s forget Talent and NIL for a minute

[AcAndAc]

On another site, the debate is that you cannot fire someone after 2 years. The funny thing is that I struggle to find a scenario where someone is clearly not up to the task after two years... is given a third year just "because"... and then it works out. Certainly not at Syracuse (see Shafer/GERG).

What is the best upset of the Red coaching career? Dino upset Clemson. MacPherson upset Nebraska. What is the proof that Red can beat a team he should not beat. I only see proof of losing and almost losing to teams we should beat.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Fans and media always blame lack of effort and discipline when teams lose consistently. The real issue is lack of talent. I don't really know what kind of coach Red is because the talent on this team is just lacking big time. Of course if you can't eventually get talent well that's a key failure of a coach. In the last 7 minutes of the game last night we're consistently trailing by 5-8 points and our lineup has Carlos, Cuffe, and Euro dude on the court. None of whom will score. Good grief, Coach K couldn't win with that. I suppose Red had them in because he thinks they are better defensively than alternatives. But just wow.

The below are the schools ranked ahead of us in KenPom. We had 2 McDonalds All Americans and 3 other 4 star HS players on the roster when healthy not including Westry. I am sure all of these schools have more talent than us though. And Drake beat Miami with former D-2 players in their rotation.

 

[Red2003]

On another site, the debate is that you cannot fire someone after 2 years. The funny thing is that I struggle to find a scenario where someone is clearly not up to the task after two years... is given a third year just "because"... and then it works out. Certainly not at Syracuse (see Shafer/GERG).

What is the best upset of the Red coaching career? Dino upset Clemson. MacPherson upset Nebraska. What is the proof that Red can beat a team he should not beat. I only see proof of losing and almost losing to teams we should beat.

Axe said on his that it’s basically UNC and the Miami buzzer beater last year that got some hype going. Those were exciting. Every other games has been blah or just bad.

 

[AcAndAc]

Fans and media always blame lack of effort and discipline when teams lose consistently. The real issue is lack of talent. I don't really know what kind of coach Red is because the talent on this team is just lacking big time. Of course if you can't eventually get talent well that's a key failure of a coach. In the last 7 minutes of the game last night we're consistently trailing by 5-8 points and our lineup has Carlos, Cuffe, and Euro dude on the court. None of whom will score. Good grief, Coach K couldn't win with that. I suppose Red had them in because he thinks they are better defensively than alternatives. But just wow.

That is garbage. If all that mattered was talent, the NCAA tournament bracket would be pretty boring. Over the course of a season, you get upset a few times and you get a few upsets (unless you are a team like Duke that is always favored, in which case you hold serve against similar teams). When you NEVER get an upset... that is a very very bad sign.

If we have less talent, then we need to outwork our opponents. Play 10 guys, full court press. Do something to wear out a more talented team that has less depth. Or focus on getting key players on opponents in foul trouble to narrow the talent gap. Steer offense towards the weak link defensively in the opponent.

Maybe Red should go watch the tape of how Syracuse was upset by Rhode Island, Vermont, etc. How Virginia lost as a #1 seed.

 

[Red2003]

The below are the schools ranked ahead of us in KenPom. We had 2 McDonalds All Americans and 3 other 4 star HS players on the roster when healthy not including Westry. I am sure all of these schools have more talent than us though.

View attachment 249551

Actually expected our defense to be much lower but there’s more season to go I guess

 

[BronsonCuse]

The worst part about of all this is that it seems VERY likely we have to go through this again next year. I really want to believe that with Kline finding talent/using connections and Melo's money we can make serious gains going into next year. But it's hard to have faith (to quote our friend Dino belief without evidence) in that working out. It's hard to come to any conclusion after watching us this year other than... He's just not the guy.

 

[OmahaCuse]

Red came in and said we were going to play in your face man to man. We have seen none of that so far. Our entire roster this year and even last year lacked intensity, toughness and overall defensive mindset. Last year we gave up more points per game in any season in 35 years. This year we have given up more ppg in any season in 53 years. I could excuse the lack of talent and NIL deficiencies if we played hard and grinded it out possession by possession.

We have a roster where Joe Girard would be the best defender had he been on the team. This is a major coaching issue and likely cannot be fixed by dollars and talent. Teams are scoring 79 ppg against us. It’s unheard of.

Curious how the new assistant coach is doing, we added him during the Leffew recruiting process as he was supposed be an outstanding experienced M2M coach? My guess is Red may be forced to clean house end of the year?

 

[tbonezone]

Every post conference Red says, “We talked about this or that.”

my favorite post presser line was a couple games ago when he said "we give the players the answers to the test " or something close. i'm guessing the OMEGA guys beat them to the trash and switched answer sheets.

 

[kingtidge]

Curious how the new assistant coach is doing, we added him during the Leffew recruiting process as he was supposed be an outstanding experienced M2M coach? My guess is Red may be forced to clean house end of the year?

Englestad?? Who knows?

School may be between a rock and a hard place running it back next year though, that is for sure.

Cratered season tix renewals and an empty dome in front of Team Melo-on-board could be absolutely catastrophic.

Great player legacy tarnished.

The discounted tickets, school hat-in-hand begging people to go / blaming the fans for giving up and big, mounting gameday revenue deficits. etc.

Make no mistake, that is a real possibility and no one should be surprised if or when it happens.

 

[Red2003]

The worst part about of all this is that it seems VERY likely we have to go through this again next year. I really want to believe that with Kline finding talent/using connections and Melo's money we can make serious gains going into next year. But it's hard to have faith (to quote our friend Dino belief without evidence) in that working out. It's hard to come to any conclusion after watching us this year other than... He's just not the guy.

I wont say I think Autry is the guy but I will tune in early next season for Sadiq and Kiyan cuz I like them even if I don’t like what’s happening in the program. That’s not on them.

Autry needs to wake up in the offseason and pull a 180 on everything he does. Clean house on the roster and staff. He needs help everywhere.

I also think him and whatever staff he ends up with should be sitting in a room with Fran and his staff and watching our football practices to see what a real ranked P5 program is doing. What’re they doing On and off the field that Autry can do with his program. Even the lacrosse team could offer something.

If Autry just runs it back with different names on the jerseys you think we’re angry now but we’re gonna lose our minds next year.

 

[sufan59]

Fans and media always blame lack of effort and discipline when teams lose consistently. The real issue is lack of talent. I don't really know what kind of coach Red is because the talent on this team is just lacking big time. Of course if you can't eventually get talent well that's a key failure of a coach. In the last 7 minutes of the game last night we're consistently trailing by 5-8 points and our lineup has Carlos, Cuffe, and Euro dude on the court. None of whom will score. Good grief, Coach K couldn't win with that. I suppose Red had them in because he thinks they are better defensively than alternatives. But just wow.

Ok let’s look at our recruiting class rankings over the last 4 years. This is overall rank including transfers. Understand that we don’t have many players that contributed to these rankings. From 247:
2021- 82
2022-22
2023-59
2024-26
That averages out to about 47. Our Ken Pom ranking currently is 133. This is just one data point that I understand doesn’t tell the full picture and includes considerations for players recruited under Boeheim but it’s quite obvious the talent should be there for us to atleast have a winning record and be on the tournament bubble. And that would be performing to expectations. Good coaches could get the team to outperform those recruiting rankings by 10 to 20 positions.

 

[LAorange44]

Axe said on his that it’s basically UNC and the Miami buzzer beater last year that got some hype going. Those were exciting. Every other games has been blah or just bad.

Reds big wins last year were Pitt x 2, NC State x 2, North Carolina, Miami, Virginia Tech, and Oregon.

Red’s big wins this year: none

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

If I could bet my entire net worth on Autry being back next year I would do it.

Yeah, but you broke.

 

[FloridaCuse]

That is garbage. If all that mattered was talent, the NCAA tournament bracket would be pretty boring. Over the course of a season, you get upset a few times and you get a few upsets (unless you are a team like Duke that is always favored, in which case you hold serve against similar teams). When you NEVER get an upset... that is a very very bad sign.

If we have less talent, then we need to outwork our opponents. Play 10 guys, full court press. Do something to wear out a more talented team that has less depth. Or focus on getting key players on opponents in foul trouble to narrow the talent gap. Steer offense towards the weak link defensively in the opponent.

Maybe Red should go watch the tape of how Syracuse was upset by Rhode Island, Vermont, etc. How Virginia lost as a #1 seed.

Or how we lost as a #2 seed in the 1st round to Richmond in 1991 at Cole Fieldhouse in College Park, Maryland. I, unfortunately, was there.

 

[AcAndAc]

Or how we lost as a #2 seed in the 1st round to Richmond in 1991 at Cole Fieldhouse in College Park, Maryland. I, unfortunately, was there.

That loss never would have happened in 2024-2025 because we had more talent and the better coach.

 

[hoopsupstate]

I wont say I think Autry is the guy but I will tune in early next season for Sadiq and Kiyan cuz I like them even if I don’t like what’s happening in the program. That’s not on them.

Autry needs to wake up in the offseason and pull a 180 on everything he does. Clean house on the roster and staff. He needs help everywhere.

I also think him and whatever staff he ends up with should be sitting in a room with Fran and his staff and watching our football practices to see what a real ranked P5 program is doing. What’re they doing On and off the field that Autry can do with his program. Even the lacrosse team could offer something.

If Autry just runs it back with different names on the jerseys you think we’re angry now but we’re gonna lose our minds next year.

I think the first thing we need to look at is the strength and conditioning program. We have been forever a bunch of weaklings.

 

[BillSU]

The coaching stinks, the playing stinks, the NIL stinks, the treadmill stinks, everything stinks.

Told you we should have hired Rick Pitino a long time ago. We should be playing in the BIG EAST.

They are 21-3 as I write this defeating @MSG 11/11 Marquette and UConn away.

But, we didn't. We 're terrible. And we need a coach who can have players play, score and play defense.

Sorry you didn't like it Fly Rodder.

 

[cusefan88]

I think the first thing we need to look at is the strength and conditioning program. We have been forever a bunch of weaklings.

Assuming Red stays, I don't think he has the guts to fire the guy, who's also been at Cuse for a very long time.

 

[sdhall01]

I wont say I think Autry is the guy but I will tune in early next season for Sadiq and Kiyan cuz I like them even if I don’t like what’s happening in the program. That’s not on them.

Autry needs to wake up in the offseason and pull a 180 on everything he does. Clean house on the roster and staff. He needs help everywhere.

I also think him and whatever staff he ends up with should be sitting in a room with Fran and his staff and watching our football practices to see what a real ranked P5 program is doing. What’re they doing On and off the field that Autry can do with his program. Even the lacrosse team could offer something.

If Autry just runs it back with different names on the jerseys you think we’re angry now but we’re gonna lose our minds next year.

I’ll be honest, at this point, I’m shocked he hasn’t fired some coaches mid season. What does he have to lose? It at least would look like he’s TRYING.

Also, so what if we lose our recruits? Next season is a bust anyway. Also, maybe—just maybe—we’d be better if we stopped living in the past as a program and hoping that someone with the last name Anthony or McNamara can be our savior.

If Red stays, then he better be the only constant on the staff.

 

[Cuse4403]

Honestly, what is on the pros side of the list for Autry being the head coach? I can write a list a mile long about the cons. The only seemingly "positive" arguments people can make are simply excuses. For the love of everything holy please just fire him and bring in a quality coach. I honestly don't care if we lose the entire recruiting class because of it. I'm begging at this point.

 

[Newhouser]

I think the first thing we need to look at is the strength and conditioning program. We have been forever a bunch of weaklings.

It boggles my mind that this is never brought up.

 

[orange79]

We should be playing in the BIG EAST.

And you would be scouring the internet for info on 1-star FB recruits.

 

[Cusefan0307]

It boggles my mind that this is never brought up.

I actually started a thread on this 8 years ago.

 

[HyattsCuse]

Using your beer analogy in a little unrelated fashion. The Amstel light might taste better on its own vs a Keystone light. But a coach is paid millions to make Chili. A good coach can overcome using lower quality beer to make a good chili. Maybe the same chili tastes better with Amstel over Keystone, but the drop off should not be significant. Just because you’re making a wagyu burger over an angus beef burger doesn’t mean the angus beef burger can’t be good or better if the chef cooking it is a better chef. Maybe not reach the ceiling of the wagyu burger, but still be a pretty good burger.

I’m sure your post has some good points, but right now all I can think about is chili with a side of cornbread. That sounds really good right now!

 

[M2MPrinciples]

I actually started a thread on this 8 years ago.

I've mentioned this too. Cabiles has been with the program forever but only a few guys here and there have significantly improved their conditioning over the years. It also seems that our starters get injured more often than those at other power programs, but I don't have hard data on that.

Similarly, I thought it was pretty shambolic that there was a story in the PS about how much pizza was being delivered to the locker room after games, considering how out of shape we were. When we finally got a nutritionist a year or two ago it was celebrated like we just solved cold fusion.