Looking ahead to next year's squad

[Cusefan0307]

Who said "we can't score?"

We're going to be better offensively than you think, I'd be willing to bet.

If we are going to compete against the ACC we need to score more than 70 points a game this year, and shoot higher than 43 percent overall. That is not enough. We've scored at that or less for four years in a row while shooting 43%. That's where I'm getting the can't score from, as it's been the main issue we have had, and its the number one reason we lose. The last 4 years we have shot 43, 43, 43 and 42 percent.

 

[pearl31]

If we are going to compete against the ACC

 

[RF2044]

If we are going to compete against the ACC we need to score more than 70 points a game this year, and shoot higher than 43 percent overall. That is not enough. We've scored at that or less for four years in a row while shooting 43%. That's where I'm getting the can't score from, as it's been the main issue we have had, and its the number one reason we lose. The last 4 years we have shot 43, 43, 43 and 42 percent.

2 of those 4 teams you are complaining about "losing" made the final four.

But again--who said we can't score NEXT YEAR?

I don't care about the last few years. The 2015 team didn't have a point guard. Last year's team was overly reliant upon the three and had no consistent inside presence.

None of which has any bearing on how we'll play next year. We have some intriguing new pieces of the puzzle in Gillon and Battle, to mesh with a proven scoring commodity in Lydon. The cupboard is far from bare.

 

[Cusefan0307]

My bad Pearl, I should have said at the top half of the ACC.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I think DC2 could have a Rak-like leap in offensive skills. You could see glimpses of it last season. It won't be Rak's actual numbers because Lydon and Roberson will take possessions away, Rak was basically the only option his senior year...

Coleman could average 10 and 7 with 1.5 blocks, a solid improvement over last year, and it wouldn't come close to what Rakeem did.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Actually, I don't even think it's another guard we need. I think our biggest weakness is a 6'5" - 6'7" wing (3) who can handle the ball and play the back end of the zone, as well as up top.

 

[pearl31]

and it wouldn't come close to what Rakeem did.

and we don't need it to be

 

[NineOneSeven]

and we don't need it to be

Not saying we do. Just saying that Rakeem's improvement (in terms of numbers, I always thought he should have gotten fed more earlier in his career), was ridiculous.

 

[pearl31]

My bad Pearl, I should have said at the top half of the ACC.

But still - You're saying we haven't and won't compete with half of the ACC??

 

[jordoo]

Coleman could average 10 and 7 with 1.5 blocks, a solid improvement over last year, and it wouldn't come close to what Rakeem did.

If Coleman does that in the 20ish minutes he will likely play then it would be huge!

 

[Cusefan0307]

2 of those 4 teams you are complaining about "losing" made the final four.

But again--who said we can't score NEXT YEAR?

I don't care about the last few years. The 2015 team didn't have a point guard. Last year's team was overly reliant upon the three and had no consistent inside presence.

None of which has any bearing on how we'll play next year. We have some intriguing new pieces of the puzzle in Gillon and Battle, to mesh with a proven scoring commodity in Lydon. The cupboard is far from bare.

I appreciate your expertise and point of view RF, you're one of the best and i'll make this my last post on this thread as I've said my fair share, but I have seen our offense continously deteriote over the past few years where it's hard to see how it will get better.

The final fours are great, I have enjoyed them.

This is a tough conference, we have struggled in it. We have continuously been beat by the upper echelon teams and are 20-24 in our last 44 conference games. I love our post season success, but it's been mostly because of our defense. As a die hard CBB fan I value the regular season as well. I'd like to get back to the point where we are finishing in the top 4 or 5 of the league every year. I'm sick of losing to the same schools over and over. That shouldn't happen to Syracuse Basketball unless we are facing Jamie Dixon. If eventually we want to win the title again, we need more shot makers. Villanova, Duke, Wisconsin, all of the teams who recently contended or won all had multiple shot makers, we hardly ever do. We did this year, but we were weak inside.

I know we had no inside prescence last year, but it's not like Chukwu is going to come in and be an offensive force. He's here to be a better version of Baye. Roberson is Roberson, he's been analyzed enough. We need hustle plays and points out of him. If he can do that thats enough. If Coleman improves, that's something that could really help this team be good, cause I'm not expecting it.

We need All ACC type years out of Battle and Lydon, theres no doubt about that. I worry about Frank and Gillon in the halfcourt if they don't make shots., that will hamper us. I'm concerned about the shooting, because years when we don't have it teams pack the paint.

If we actually run this more I'll be happy, but we need to block shots and get steals because teams increasingly force us to play a halfcourt game, which I don't think is our strong point.

I'm making my predictions viewing the rest of the league, and theres some strong rosters. I'm just being honest about that. It's frustrating that we have just 8 players, especially some unproven guys at guard. I agree you can score other ways besides the 3 point shot, but most great teams who win have multiple shooters to spread the floor, especially against teams who make it difficult to get inside like UNC, Louisville, and Virginia.

 

[RF2044]

I appreciate your expertise and point of view RF, you're one of the best and i'll make this my last post on this thread as I've said my fair share, but I have seen our offense continously deteriote over the past few years where it's hard to see how it will get better.

The final fours are great, I have enjoyed them.

This is a tough conference, we have struggled in it. We have continuously been beat by the upper echelon teams and are 20-24 in our last 44 conference games. I love our post season success, but it's been mostly because of our defense. As a die hard CBB fan I value the regular season as well. I'd like to get back to the point where we are finishing in the top 4 or 5 of the league every year. I'm sick of losing to the same schools over and over. That shouldn't happen to Syracuse Basketball unless we are facing Jamie Dixon. If eventually we want to win the title again, we need more shot makers. Villanova, Duke, Wisconsin, all of the teams who recently contended or won all had multiple shot makers, we hardly ever do. We did this year, but we were weak inside.

I know we had no inside prescence last year, but it's not like Chukwu is going to come in and be an offensive force. He's here to be a better version of Baye. Roberson is Roberson, he's been analyzed enough. We need hustle plays and points out of him. If he can do that thats enough. If Coleman improves, that's something that could really help this team be good, cause I'm not expecting it.

We need All ACC type years out of Battle and Lydon, theres no doubt about that. I worry about Frank and Gillon in the halfcourt if they don't make shots., that will hamper us. I'm concerned about the shooting, because years when we don't have it teams pack the paint.

If we actually run this more I'll be happy, but we need to block shots and get steals because teams increasingly force us to play a halfcourt game, which I don't think is our strong point.

I'm making my predictions viewing the rest of the league, and theres some strong rosters. I'm just being honest about that. It's frustrating that we have just 8 players, especially some unproven guys at guard. I agree you can score other ways besides the 3 point shot, but most great teams who win have multiple shooters to spread the floor, especially against teams who make it difficult to get inside like UNC, Louisville, and Virginia.

Appreciate the kind words. As you know, we're generally on the same page 95% of the time, just happen to have a different point of view on this subject.

Have a great weekend.

 

[Alsacs]

We can hope Coleman gives us something his Senior year but I am not going to believe it or expect it until it happens.

The kid isn't even going to seek the bulk of the minutes if Chukwu can be the defender we expect.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I think DC2 could have a Rak-like leap in offensive skills. You could see glimpses of it last season. It won't be Rak's actual numbers because Lydon and Roberson will take possessions away, Rak was basically the only option his senior year...

I am obviously a fan of the program and the player, but I honestly just don't see it. I'm not even sure if Coleman can dunk anymore. There's no way he is going to average double digits on offense, let alone be our leading scorer like Christmas became.

Last year we had Roberson average 9 pts and 8 rebounds, and we had Coleman average 5 points and 4 rebounds. I think Roberson is more capable of making a leap than Coleman is, although Dajuan did show some quality down the stretch. He played over 30 minutes twice toward the end of the season, and he had a few games where he really contributed, but his very best games come in at about 10 points and 7 or 8 rebounds.

Christmas averaged 17.5 points and 9 rebounds a game for us his final year. Coleman won't come anywhere close to that. If Roberson could somehow improve his confidence, I could see him turning into about a 13-14 point and 9-10 rebound per game guy. I'm not sure he's going to get that much better, but we've got a pretty solid guy there in our front court rotation.

 

[TheCusian]

It's HIS decision to make. What is wrong with you?

This comment following what he wrote means the whole thing went over your head.

 

[Alsacs]

2 of those 4 teams you are complaining about "losing" made the final four.

But again--who said we can't score NEXT YEAR?

I don't care about the last few years. The 2015 team didn't have a point guard. Last year's team was overly reliant upon the three and had no consistent inside presence.

None of which has any bearing on how we'll play next year. We have some intriguing new pieces of the puzzle in Gillon and Battle, to mesh with a proven scoring commodity in Lydon. The cupboard is far from bare.

If 2013, 2014, 2016 had one more player who could have put the ball in the basket any of those teams could have won it all.

We haven't had enough scoring since 2012. The offense has probably cost us 1 NC or 1 NC appearance. Our D locked Michigan down but we couldn't score outside of Fair and last year we went ice cold the last 10 minutes of the first half and lost the UNC game during that time. The Dayton game if we could have scored we had a path to the Elite 8 against Florida and could beaten them.

 

[RF2044]

If 2013, 2014, 2016 had one more player who could have put the ball in the basket any of those teams could have won it all.

We haven't had enough scoring since 2012. The offense has probably cost us 1 NC or 1 NC appearance. Our D locked Michigan down but we couldn't score outside of Fair and last year we went ice cold the last 10 minutes of the first half and lost the UNC game during that time. The Dayton game if we could have scored we had a path to the Elite 8 against Florida and could beaten them.

I also don't think we were that good offensively in 2012, but we had tons of weapons, bench scoring, and our defense forced so many turnovers that led to transition baskets that it helped to mask our halfcourt limitations.

 

[TheCusian]

If Battle is as good as advertised, having 2 NBA guys (Battle/Lydon) to score alongside good interior defense and rebounding - we'll be better than last year in the regular season.

To me Gillion is the key. If he can shoot at a decent clip from 3, we are looking at a very, very nice season.

 

[Alsacs]

I also don't think we were that good offensively in 2012, but we had tons of weapons, bench scoring, and our defense forced so many turnovers that led to transition baskets that it helped to mask our halfcourt limitations.

2012 was a good offense. All it was missing was 2011 Rick Jackson. Kris Joseph could drive. Dion Waiters could drive. Scoop/Triche gave us offense. Southerland/Fair were support players. Fab Melo could even hit a few elbow jumpers and we had the transition you said.
Sophomore Dion Waiters was awesome the team was just so deep he played within the confines of the team.

We didn't get shutdown by many teams in 2012 except Louisville at Louisvlle if my memory is correct. We won that slugfest but we scored a lot easier that year then we have since.

 

[RF2044]

If Battle is as good as advertised, having 2 NBA guys (Battle/Lydon) to score alongside good interior defense and rebounding - we'll be better than last year in the regular season.

To me Gillion is the key. If he can shoot at a decent clip from 3, we are looking at a very, very nice season.

And if Gillon and Roberson can both provide double figure scoring, then we have a nice foundational nucleus of scorers to build around.

 

[jordoo]

I am obviously a fan of the program and the player, but I honestly just don't see it. I'm not even sure if Coleman can dunk anymore. There's no way he is going to average double digits on offense, let alone be our leading scorer like Christmas became.

Last year we had Roberson average 9 pts and 8 rebounds, and we had Coleman average 5 points and 4 rebounds. I think Roberson is more capable of making a leap than Coleman is, although Dajuan did show some quality down the stretch. He played over 30 minutes twice toward the end of the season, and he had a few games where he really contributed, but his very best games come in at about 10 points and 7 or 8 rebounds.

Christmas averaged 17.5 points and 9 rebounds a game for us his final year. Coleman won't come anywhere close to that. If Roberson could somehow improve his confidence, I could see him turning into about a 13-14 point and 9-10 rebound per game guy. I'm not sure he's going to get that much better, but we've got a pretty solid guy there in our front court rotation.

No matter how much he improves I don't see him playing the minutes to put up the numbers Rakeem did as a senior. So I certainly agree.

Last year he averaged 17.5 minutes per game and put up 4.9pts and 4.7reb per game. After last season seeing Coleman's highs and lows I'll be happy if he does something like 7-8pts and 5reb playing 20minutes. I think that's pretty reasonable and certainly he could do better if he comes back with a refined post game and makes a high percentage of FT's.

 

[Alsacs]

The problem has been we don't recruiting shooting. We recruit length for the zone. Obviously JB knows more than us but recruiting for the zone means we typically play 2 of the 5 guys who aren't offensive threats. If you have a PG/SG/SF and then one the 2 big able to post then you have 4 players the D must respect.

In 2012 we were playing Scoop/Triche/Waiters at PG/SG, Joseph/Southerland at SF, Fair at PF, Melo/Christmas/Keita at C.

The only non-offensive position we had was at C. We had 4 threats on the floor.

That is the last time we have had 4 good offensive threats at one time.

 

[jordoo]

And if Gillon and Roberson can both provide double figure scoring, then we have a nice foundational nucleus of scorers to build around.

Agreed no reason that Gillon, Battle and the Tyler's cannot give us 50+ points on a regular basis.
TylerL:17
TylerR:11
Battle:14
Gillon:12
Total: 54pts
Very reasonable expectations IMO.

 

[721Comstock]

The problem has been we don't recruiting shooting. We recruit length for the zone. Obviously JB knows more than us but recruiting for the zone means we typically play 2 of the 5 guys who aren't offensive threats. If you have a PG/SG/SF and then one the 2 big able to post then you have 4 players the D must respect.

In 2012 we were playing Scoop/Triche/Waiters at PG/SG, Joseph/Southerland at SF, Fair at PF, Melo/Christmas/Keita at C.

The only non-offensive position we had was at C. We had 4 threats on the floor.

That is the last time we have had 4 good offensive threats at one time.

G, Cooney Bros, Mali, Lydon = 4 offensive threats at the same time.

How soon they forget... :crazy:

 

[pearl31]

I honestly think our 8-man rotation is solid, and has the potential to be a very good team next year. I'm still sticking with top-5 acc and top-25 most of the year - probably some growing pains to start but then a strong finish...
As far as overall qty of players, right now I'm really just concerned with having 10 legit practice players (and then obviously filling vacancies for '17, but I'm confident that will be sorted out in the coming months). Basically we need one more forward and one more guard to make that happen - am really hoping the staff comes up with something so that we have those two players by October.