LSU vs. UCF

[HtownOrange]

Games are played with the players available. It is on the team to prepare their depth. Part of playing is attrition (injuries, illness, academics, draft, team discipline, etc.). Wins are not noted with asterisks to define the win does not really count because Player X was out (or in LSU's case Please X1-X9).

Did SU lose to WVU because Grier is a pansy? NO! get over it. SU was down several players, too. SU was prepared t have players step up (See HCDB and all of his talk re: depth the last three years!)

UCF was good, unbeaten in 2 plus seasons. They played LSU who was better. Both were missing players, both had players step up. LSU's players stepped up better than UCF's players. LSU won. Nobody can take the win away unless LSU cheated (to my knowledge, there was no cheating).

We had to deal with the losses after Dungey was injured in 2016 and 2017. Sucks, but the facts are, we lost. Syracuse won this fall because HCDB built depth. UCF was exposed for the team it is, a very good team, but not elite.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Here's the thing. UCF is a really good team. There were NOT a playoff caliber team. If they play in a P5 conference they still have a great year but have at least 2 losses. They were big boyed at the LOS today. Over the course of a season in a real conference that would wear them down. Combine that with a what-the-heck game against a decent team like most teams have at some point in the season, and they don't look anywhere near as dominant as they do against their current schedule. Losing to another really good P5 team that had 3 conference losses shows they were right where they belonged. The idea that they are pissed about "only" being in a new year's 6 bowl shows their sense of entitlement and is annoying.

I agree with most of this in regards to LSU compared to UCF this season. The talent difference in the trenches was significant.

However, everyone seems to be missing the bigger point that UCF is trying to make. The CFP system is entirely rigged to favor the P5 and exclude the G5. There is basically nothing UCF can do (or any other G5 team) to get into the CFP playoff as long as it’s 4 teams. This whole “National Championship” campaign is simply trying to raise awareness on a rigged system and force expansion to 8 teams with at least one G5 team getting an invite. They want it to be played out on the field. Highly unlikely that UCF would be able to win 3 games, but they just want the chance to see what happens on the field.

If it doesn’t change I can see the G5 breaking off and forming a new D1 division. I don’t think that would be good for college football.

 

[sufandu]

Right. A playoff caliber team often has their next qb waiting in the wings. Oklahoma replaced last year's heisman winner with... a heisman winner. All three other teams played their back up qb's in significant situations this year, Clemson played their 3rd string RFr to win a game. An elite team may take a step back with the backup in, but their offense won't fall apart.

I thought you made your point well. I just thought I'd tack my thought on to yours.

 

[Entropic]

After that hit on qb after the INT where one guy flexed while another came over to taunt the qb laying on the ground I thought to myself, "Are they trying to be the new Miami Hurricanes?"

Thats the attitude people get when they live in a bubble. They are told they are best. They win every game. Main reason I wanted them to lose. I don't like LSU but UCF needs a giant dose of reality.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Would UCF win the ACC Coastal?

They destroyed Pitt this year

 

[HOFCeluck]

I agree with most of this in regards to LSU compared to UCF this season. The talent difference in the trenches was significant.

However, everyone seems to be missing the bigger point that UCF is trying to make. The CFP system is entirely rigged to favor the P5 and exclude the G5. There is basically nothing UCF can do (or any other G5 team) to get into the CFP playoff as long as it’s 4 teams. This whole “National Championship” campaign is simply trying to raise awareness on a rigged system and force expansion to 8 teams with at least one G5 team getting an invite. They want it to be played out on the field. Highly unlikely that UCF would be able to win 3 games, but they just want the chance to see what happens on the field.

If it doesn’t change I can see the G5 breaking off and forming a new D1 division. I don’t think that would be good for college football.

They should expand or UCF should position themselves for the next round of expansion. Butt there’s no reason for them to be picked over a one (or two) loss team as it stands.

 

[CuseOnly]

You can't guarantee a thing. It's you that needs to think about what you're saying.

You are making huge assumptions about subbing in 5 star guys for LSU that that deep in the roster that are just pure fiction.

From the 2015 recruiting class until 2019, they have only had 3 commitments from 5* DB's.

Even so, our second string QB would shred even Clemson's defense minus their top 9 DB's. If you don't think that is true, you have serious issues.

 

[sufandu]

Would UCF win the ACC Coastal?

I think they would. And I think they'd give Clemson a good game on the right day. They're not worse than us.

One problem I have with the UCF argument is that some people act as if saying they didn't belong in the playoff is the same as saying they suck. They absolutely don't suck. They are really good. They just did not do enough to prove they were one of the best 4 teams in the country. That's not horrible. If anyone tells me I am just outside the 97th percentile in anything I do, I will take it as a compliment.

 

[Entropic]

They destroyed Pitt this year

Okay that is one team and not even a good one. Could they beat Pitt as well as Miami, GT, VPI and UVA? They played Pitt after playing UCONN, SC State, and then FL. Atlantic.

Pitt played Ped State, UNC and GT prior to playing UCF.

 

[HtownOrange]

I agree with most of this in regards to LSU compared to UCF this season. The talent difference in the trenches was significant.

However, everyone seems to be missing the bigger point that UCF is trying to make. The CFP system is entirely rigged to favor the P5 and exclude the G5. There is basically nothing UCF can do (or any other G5 team) to get into the CFP playoff as long as it’s 4 teams. This whole “National Championship” campaign is simply trying to raise awareness on a rigged system and force expansion to 8 teams with at least one G5 team getting an invite. They want it to be played out on the field. Highly unlikely that UCF would be able to win 3 games, but they just want the chance to see what happens on the field.

If it doesn’t change I can see the G5 breaking off and forming a new D1 division. I don’t think that would be good for college football.

The G5 will not break away from the P5, the money is with the P5. If the break away, so what?

The P5 is not likely to break away from the G5. They need the patsies to puff up the elite teams. The SEC beats up on easy teams and then everyone says they beat up on each other. Would Alabama actually have a 10 win season versus:

Clemson, LSU, TAMU, OU, ND, UM, SU, Georgia, Florida, NCState, UT and Washington? Probably not, the grinder would be too tough. That is why the SEC teams get one FCS cream puff, and three other games (usually weak P5 and G5 teams to be used as breathers, if not outright BYE weeks. For the record, no team is likely to run the table against a schedule of 12 top 25 teams!

I am for expanding the playoffs - I believe 16 teams is the right number, the other divisions have 16 team playoffs and D1 has more players. Regardless, UCF did not earn the right to play in the limited four team playoff. And yes, the P5 is favored in the four team format, as they will be in an eight or sixteen team format, but that is part of the business.

 

[Entropic]

I think they would. And I think they'd give Clemson a good game on the right day. They're not worse than us.

One problem I have with the UCF argument is that some people act as if saying they didn't belong in the playoff is the same as saying they suck. They absolutely don't suck. They are really good. They just did not do enough to prove they were one of the best 4 teams in the country. That's not horrible. If anyone tells me I am just outside the 97th percentile in anything I do, I will take it as a compliment.

I think they could compete. But I don't think they have the depth to last the whole year. We know very well what having a lack of depth can do. I think they would win some games and then wear down towards the end of the season like average/good teams do and great teams don't.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Okay that is one team and not even a good one. Could they beat Pitt as well as Miami, GT, VPI and UVA? They played Pitt after playing UCONN, SC State, and then FL. Atlantic.

Pitt played Ped State, UNC and GT prior to playing UCF.

You have some weird logic. Pitt won the Coastal. Your question was could UCF win the Coastal. UCF beat Pitt 45-14. I think it’s fairly easy to assume that UCF could have won the Coastal this year. They are a good team. Not CFP elite, but a good team completely capable of winning the Coastal.

Also, they beat Cincinnati by a good margin. Cincinnati beat VaTech in the Military Bowl.

 

[sufandu]

I agree with most of this in regards to LSU compared to UCF this season. The talent difference in the trenches was significant.

However, everyone seems to be missing the bigger point that UCF is trying to make. The CFP system is entirely rigged to favor the P5 and exclude the G5. There is basically nothing UCF can do (or any other G5 team) to get into the CFP playoff as long as it’s 4 teams. This whole “National Championship” campaign is simply trying to raise awareness on a rigged system and force expansion to 8 teams with at least one G5 team getting an invite. They want it to be played out on the field. Highly unlikely that UCF would be able to win 3 games, but they just want the chance to see what happens on the field.

If it doesn’t change I can see the G5 breaking off and forming a new D1 division. I don’t think that would be good for college football.

I don't buy that. There will always be haves and havenots. It's the way it is. The P5 are not telling espn to not give other conferences a boatload of money. There are things schools like UCF can do to prove themselves. Play the Floridas of the world whenever and wherever they say instead of letting their ego get in the way. Having 2 really good seasons does not give you the stature of a program that has done it for decades, so suck it up until you've proven yourself for a while. Does it suck to play a really good team on the road? Yeah, but it's something every P5 team does every year sometimes multiple times per year. UCF doing it one time per season in an OOC game would still leave them with a weaker schedule than most P5 teams but would make them more legitimate in everyone's eyes.

 

[sufandu]

I think they could compete. But I don't think they have the depth to last the whole year. We know very well what having a lack of depth can do. I think they would win some games and then wear down towards the end of the season like average/good teams do and great teams don't.

I'm not saying the conference, but I think they win the coastal last year and this year.

 

[OburgOrange]

Would UCF win the ACC Coastal?

Well... they were national champs last year...sooo

 

[OrlandoCuse]

I don't buy that. There will always be haves and havenots. It's the way it is. The P5 are not telling espn to not give other conferences a boatload of money. There are things schools like UCF can do to prove themselves. Play the Floridas of the world whenever and wherever they say instead of letting their ego get in the way. Having 2 really good seasons does not give you the stature of a program that has done it for decades, so suck it up until you've proven yourself for a while. Does it suck to play a really good team on the road? Yeah, but it's something every P5 team does every year sometimes multiple times per year. UCF doing it one time per season in an OOC game would still leave them with a weaker schedule than most P5 teams but would make them more legitimate in everyone's eyes.

I agree with you that if UCF plays and beats two more P5 teams this year they have a better claim to get in. They should strive to play 3 P5 teams in their non conference every year, if not 4. They have Stanford and Pitt on the schedule next year, but I’m not sure that will be enough.

The question will be, what P5 teams will want to schedule UCF? That may become more difficult if they prove to be a quality team. Most P5 want to schedule at most one quality non-conference opponent each year, and they don’t want to schedule non-conf road games.

 

[Entropic]

You have some weird logic. Pitt won the Coastal. Your question was could UCF win the Coastal. UCF beat Pitt 45-14. I think it’s fairly easy to assume that UCF could have won the Coastal this year. They are a good team. Not CFP elite, but a good team completely capable of winning the Coastal.

Also, they beat Cincinnati by a good margin. Cincinnati beat VaTech in the Military Bowl.

My point is about wear and tear. Depth issues. They played Pitt in week 5 after playing cupcakes. If I remember right, Pitt played two top 25 teams and GT prior to playing UCF. GT alone destroys a defense with depth problems because all the cut blocks. UCF was missing a solely a QB today and the offense couldn't move the ball. And don't bring up how we did vs ND because Mack has been their QB for like 6 weeks.

 

[TexanMark]

They destroyed Pitt this year

A one off game...in Orlando in the heat early in the season. UCF would have probably won the coastal but they would not be unbeaten. The ACC beats you up more than the AAC.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

A one off game...in Orlando in the heat early in the season. UCF would have probably won the coastal but they would not be unbeaten. The ACC beats you up more than the AAC.

Yes, I agree. They could have gone 6-2 and won the Coastal

 

[CuseOnly]

I'm not saying the conference, but I think they win the coastal last year and this year.

Sure, they might win the Coastal but they wouldn't do it undefeated, that is pretty clear.

They would have to play Syracuse every year and I think we beat them.

Then they play MIami, GT, UNC, VT, Duke, UVA as well. Pitt also played Penn State and ND.

No way in H.E. Double hockey sticks they make it through that schedule unscathed...and then to top it all off to get into the playoff and win the conference they would get another loss from Clemson in the ACC CCG.

Good luck. They don't get into the playoff.

When they play a schedule s challenging and Pitt's or Syracuse's every year, then they have a shot.

Until then they need to keep quiet.

 

[sufandu]

I agree with you that if UCF plays and beats two more P5 teams this year they have a better claim to get in. They should strive to play 3 P5 teams in their non conference every year, if not 4. They have Stanford and Pitt on the schedule next year, but I’m not sure that will be enough.

The question will be, what P5 teams will want to schedule UCF? That may become more difficult if they prove to be a quality team. Most P5 want to schedule at most one quality non-conference opponent each year, and they don’t want to schedule non-conf road games.

Florida wants to schedule UCF after two undefeated regular seasons. It's UCF that's running scared. When they have the chance to schedule an elite team, they need to. Pitt definitely doesn't cut it and Stanford is a step below Florida.

There are big time matchups between big name teams every year. Clemson often schedules a week one or two P5 opponent (Texas A&M this year) despite having an annual game against South Carolina. Ohio State and Alabama have played each other in the past. Michigan played ND early this year. Those are just off the top of my head. I could find more if I felt like doing a quick search. The point is there are teams that don't run from competition. UCF can find them if they want to.

 

[sufandu]

Sure, they might win the Coastal but they wouldn't do it undefeated, that is pretty clear.

They would have to play Syracuse every year and I think we beat them.

Then they play MIami, GT, UNC, VT, Duke, UVA as well. Pitt also played Penn State and ND.

No way in H.E. Double hockey sticks they make it through that schedule unscathed...and then to top it all off to get into the playoff and win the conference they would get another loss from Clemson in the ACC CCG.

Good luck. They don't get into the playoff.

When they play a schedule s challenging and Pitt's or Syracuse's every year, then they have a shot.

Until then they need to keep quiet.

First of all, don't come at me like I'm a UCF apologist. If you've read what I've posted, it's clear I'm not. I simply answered a question. Someone asked if they'd win the Coastal. I said I thought they would. I have also said they would not go undefeated in a P5 conference. Chill out.

 

[orangecuse]

You are making huge assumptions about subbing in 5 star guys for LSU that that deep in the roster that are just pure fiction.

From the 2015 recruiting class until 2019, they have only had 3 commitments from 5* DB's.

Even so, our second string QB would shred even Clemson's defense minus their top 9 DB's. If you don't think that is true, you have serious issues.

You're a frigging clown. Moreover, the way in which you've chosen to engage me here (which is interesting considering I don't recall much, if any, dialog ever between us) suggests that you are the one with "serious issues" as it's quite apparent you take yourself too seriously here.

 

[orangecuse]

I agree it’s a critical component. My point is that it didn’t leave them short handed today.

1 to 1 - I’ll agree with you.

But this is what I’m coming back to. Down 9 to 1, I just can’t. And why they’re out doesn’t really matter in my eyes, out is out.

Milton or not, having 9 guys out from a 9-3 LSU defense should be enough for a CFP Contender. Does Georgia lose to LSU today without their starting QB? Or ND?

I will say this, the best defense against the pass is having a strong pass rush that makes a QB, especially a green and unproven one shaky and uncomfortable. LSU did not have guys out (I don't believe) on their defensive front and they dominated the UCF offensive line. So, with this being the case, I don't think LSU being down so much in their defensive backfield was problematic for them...today. Now, if UCF or someone else who had a better, more experienced, etc. QB, who could've still managed to pick them apart with slants, better accuracy, etc., then I'd say it would've had a more significant impact.

 

[sufandu]

I will say this, the best defense against the pass is having a strong pass rush that makes a QB, especially a green and unproven one shaky and uncomfortable. LSU did not have guys out (I don't believe) on their defensive front and they dominated the UCF offensive line. So, with this being the case, I don't think LSU being down so much in their defensive backfield was problematic for them...today. Now, if UCF or someone else who had a better, more experienced, etc. QB, who could've still managed to pick them apart with slants, better accuracy, etc., then I'd say it would've had a more significant impact.

NFL caliber DB's create coverage sacks too.