Luke Carney

[RF2044]

We don't doubt that the Coaches think that. We doubt that it's the case.

I thought buying a kit car was going to be a really good idea and I'd be done in a year. Everybody told me 'don't do that, it's just going to sit in your garage unassembled.' Well I know my skills better than anybody so I felt qualified to tell them they're wrong.

Thing is, that was three years ago. Guess what is still sitting unassembled in my garage? Sometimes when you're too close to an issue you miss the big picture.

You -- i.e., a fan -- can doubt it.

But sometimes the most simple explanation is the correct one.

And to be clear, I've seen enough of Collins, I was hoping Carney would get more run against Pitt -- I get the frustration -- but I doubt that Carney is better and the coaches are just not going to make the shift out of stubborness. I think there is probably practice-based justification informing that decision.

 

[RF2044]

How much worse than 15-31 126 2 TD 3 INT 9 rushes 42 yards can he be? And if he isn't that good, we give him a scholarship in the first place?

That latter question is a good one. Maybe we "missed" on the evaluation. Or maybe he's just a true freshman, who needs a little more time, but has the potential to be good in a year or two even if he isn't ready now.

Agree that Collins has been TURRIBLE. I don't want to be percieved as defending him. I'm just saying that if Carney isn't ready, then the alternative could be "worse." It absolutely could.

And I say that understanding full well that Collins stinks.

 

[Cuse4455]

Id rather see one of us out there. Than Rickie at this point...

 

[Archbold44]

I think it's more simple.

The coaches know that Collins doesn't have "it." They also observe Carney every day in practice, and have a pretty good sense of where he is at the current stage of his developmental curve.

They've seen what we all have in games, and know that Collins has extremely limited upside. But that Carney isn't even as "good" as Collins at this point. So while the fans have seen enough of Collins to know that he isn't the answer, and are clamoring for Carney, things would be worse if we make that full-time switch.

Either way, lousy position to be in.

Yes, but at least Carney forces the offense to change to something else. As soon as Rickie goes in, we return to trying to run the McCord/Angeli offense. This, of course, makes fans question the offensive coordinator.

Meanwhile, it is one thing to not have a backup QB to keep you at the same level of play. It is another to not have a backup QB capable of scoring more than 34 points over 3 games. That is 11.3 PPG. And it is yet another when you are told--not in response to a question--but are affirmatively told that the backup QB was neck and neck with the starting QB... only the starting QB led the nation in passing yards, while the backup QB is on pace to eventually lead the nation in interceptions. That is opposite extremes.

In fact, some folks were wanting Rickie during UConn because we were told that he was right there with Angeli. That was apparently untrue in a way that goes way beyond "defending players" and helping their confidence. I am sorry... but it is inexcusable to learn heading into Game 8 that said backup QB is STILL in no way capable of running the complete offense after all. Did the staff just assume that a QB injury to Angeli was impossible? You can say that Angeli won the job without ALSO misleading the fan base that Collins was neck and neck with him.

And if we have a QB that is better than Carney and Collins, why are they not playing to get experience? Whatever logic there is in playing a freshman, it applies to anyone else on the roster. How do we go from protecting RIckie with halftruths (at best) following Spring and Summer... to dumping on Carney? Why are we not protecting him?

 

[upperdeck]

So the folks who wanted Ricky and were wrong, now all want Carney and are right?

The assumption that playing and getting killed is good experience for anyone is also not good.

The coaches have 40-50 plays they went to run during a week.. Maybe Carney can run 5-10 and Ricky can run 20-30? Who knows.

QBs struggle all over. Sometimes the light bulb goes on sometimes it doesnt. Collins is getting better, but whether its enough to show on the field and get us a win.

 

[OburgOrange]

I love Fran, but not having another QB ready to go………..I mean, how long has Carney been here , and yet, he only knows a few plays?

 

[OttosShoes]

But sometimes the most simple explanation is the correct one.

Rickie is, I am sorry to say, historically bad. He's not just inefficient, he routinely helps the other team with possessions and field position. The odds of historically bad are by definition pretty low. This argument contends that we have three other people on the roster at the same time (and four if you count wildcat) that are even more historically bad. To have five options like that on the roster at the same time seems improbable. It's possible, absolutely, but if we're going to pick the simplest argument I don't think that's it.

You -- i.e., a fan -- can doubt it.

I don't doubt it as a fan. I wear my orange and eat my nachos and cheer for the passes Rickie does make. I detest the boos.

I doubt it as a donor and a businessman. Fran has been playing moneyball, and part of moneyball is efficiency over gut feel. We don't even know what the practical efficiency is of the other players because we haven't even tried.

 

[RF2044]

Rickie is, I am sorry to say, historically bad. He's not just inefficient, he routinely helps the other team. The odds of historically bad are by definition pretty low. This argument contends that we have three other people on the roster at the same time (and four if you count wildcat) that are even more historically bad. To have five options like that on the roster at the same time seems improbable. It's possible, sure, but if we're going to pick the simplest argument I don't think that's it.



I don't doubt it as a fan. I wear my orange and eat my nachos and cheer for the passes Rickie does make. I detest the boos.

I doubt it as a donor and a businessman. Fran has been playing moneyball, and part of moneyball is efficiency over gut feel. We don't even know what the practical efficiency is of the other players because we haven't even tried.

You don't think that the simplest explanation is that Carney just isn't ready, and that the coaches are holding him back when they've seen that Collins isn't any good out of blind loyalty to Collins? Ok. Agree to disagree.

 

[RF2044]

I love Fran, but not having another QB ready to go………..I mean, how long has Carney been here , and yet, he only knows a few plays?

I wonder what happened with Jakhari Williams. Is he hurt? Is he just so poor that he can't even get on the field?

The hope [at least, MY hope] was that after seeing Collins flop, Carney and / or Williams would be able to provide a spark. The whole situation is confusing.

I can understand a guy just not panning out [i.e., Collins]. QB recruiting is somewhat of a crapshoot, despite HS rankings. But to have everyone be subpar?

Edit -- I 100% expect Collins to transfer out after this year [probably landing somewhere like Louisina Tech, or the Ragin Cajuns]. I also expect Williams to hit the portal. Maybe even Carney, depending on how this year is unfolding. Yikes.

 

[OttosShoes]

and that the coaches are holding him back when they've seen that Collins isn't any good out of blind loyalty to Collins?

I didn't say that, as you've implied that isn't a simple explanation either.

I can only speculate, but my simplest explanation is "they whiffed when they evaluated him at LSU and they're whiffing again when they evaluate him in practice."

 

[JKinUtah]

That latter question is a good one. Maybe we "missed" on the evaluation. Or maybe he's just a true freshman, who needs a little more time, but has the potential to be good in a year or two even if he isn't ready now.

Agree that Collins has been TURRIBLE. I don't want to be percieved as defending him. I'm just saying that if Carney isn't ready, then the alternative could be "worse." It absolutely could.

And I say that understanding full well that Collins stinks.

If Carney was that good he wouldn't have made it out of Texas without one of those schools snatching him up.

 

[Orange315]

Carney had a pretty good offer list. Arizona, Arkansas, Boston College, Georgia Tech, BYU, Cal, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Minnesota. I'd like to see him get some time. What are they going to lose? He played the last seven weeks of his senior season with a significant injury to his right hand against his doctors recommendation. Won his fourth state championship playing both sides and winning MVP on offense and defense. Maybe being at a smaller school is the reason he didn't have more power 4 offers.

 

[Archbold44]

You don't think that the simplest explanation is that Carney just isn't ready, and that the coaches are holding him back when they've seen that Collins isn't any good out of blind loyalty to Collins? Ok. Agree to disagree.

At this point, I am not persuaded that the reason is because Fran designated him as QB#1 following Spring and wants to save face. Eventually, Rickie has to do better, right?

 

[CuseFan]

I love Fran, but not having another QB ready to go………..I mean, how long has Carney been here , and yet, he only knows a few plays?

I've been thinking the same thing. Carney had the summer and 7 games worth of time, and he only knows a few plays? And he is the smartest player on the team per Rickie (I think it was him)? That doesn't jive. Even working with just the third team, he should have picked up a lot.

 

[RF2044]

I've been thinking the same thing. Carney had the summer and 7 games worth of time, and he only knows a few plays? And he is the smartest player on the team per Rickie (I think it was him)? That doesn't jive. Even working with just the third team, he should have picked up a lot.

And the spring, right?

 

[upperdeck]

I've been thinking the same thing. Carney had the summer and 7 games worth of time, and he only knows a few plays? And he is the smartest player on the team per Rickie (I think it was him)? That doesn't jive. Even working with just the third team, he should have picked up a lot.

It isn't about running the plays.. Its about running the plays vs the D that you might see.

Look at the Pitt kid last week who had great numbers and we probably should have sacked him 10+ times.

 

[MikeSU02]

You -- i.e., a fan -- can doubt it.

But sometimes the most simple explanation is the correct one.

And to be clear, I've seen enough of Collins, I was hoping Carney would get more run against Pitt -- I get the frustration -- but I doubt that Carney is better and the coaches are just not going to make the shift out of stubborness. I think there is probably practice-based justification informing that decision.

My reply to this very fair argument would be that me, as a fan who knows like 0.1% or less of what Fran knows about college football is a tough sell to keep Rickie in when it is clear that he is actively losing us games.

And I know there are many other issues and it is never one man's fault.

But even if Luke looks suspect in practice or has limited packages, you have to allow him to prove that he will ALSO only lose you games, because that is what we are getting with Rickie.

Because when Rickie next sails a ball five yards over Gill's head or throws into two high coverage after one of his YOLO throws or misses a wide open guy in the flat, the rest of the players are going to stop trying as hard. You can say that it shouldn't. You should say they should give 110% ever play. I get it. But that's not how it works when your QB can't throw the most limited of route trees and can't read even the most basic coverages.

 

[SanDiegoCuse]

If Carney was that good he wouldn't have made it out of Texas without one of those schools snatching him up.

If you look at his recruitment he blew up pretty late and by then all the Texas schools had QBs committed. He had a very good offer list. Arizona, Arkansas, Georgia Tech, BYU, Cal, Louisville(Brohm knows QBs), Minnesota etc.

 

[SanDiegoCuse]

I've been thinking the same thing. Carney had the summer and 7 games worth of time, and he only knows a few plays? And he is the smartest player on the team per Rickie (I think it was him)? That doesn't jive. Even working with just the third team, he should have picked up a lot.

When Carney was interviewed he said he was comfortable with his knowledge of the playbook

 

[capeorange]

I love Fran, but not having another QB ready to go………..I mean, how long has Carney been here , and yet, he only knows a few plays?

And according to Collins, Carney is the smartest guy in the room.

 

[PhatOrange]

I wonder what happened with Jakhari Williams. Is he hurt? Is he just so poor that he can't even get on the field?

The hope [at least, MY hope] was that after seeing Collins flop, Carney and / or Williams would be able to provide a spark. The whole situation is confusing.

I can understand a guy just not panning out [i.e., Collins]. QB recruiting is somewhat of a crapshoot, despite HS rankings. But to have everyone be subpar?

Edit -- I 100% expect Collins to transfer out after this year [probably landing somewhere like Louisina Tech, or the Ragin Cajuns]. I also expect Williams to hit the portal. Maybe even Carney, depending on how this year is unfolding. Yikes.

Would be great if one of our esteemed reporters asked the question about Williams. He a) was a highly regarded prospect, b) has been on the field before and c) has been in the system for two years.

 

[RyanCuse44]

This thread right now

 

[UD1954]

Burning Carney's reshirt for mop up playing time is crazy...either start him the rest of the year or suffer with Collins and let him go elsewhere at seasons end.

 

[Archbold44]

Would be great if one of our esteemed reporters asked the question about Williams. He a) was a highly regarded prospect, b) has been on the field before and c) has been in the system for two years.

I think worth at least a question, right?

 

[FrancoPizza]

Rickie has flashes while playing in games that make you go...wow there IS something there...

Really? Speak for yourself.