Lydon to hire agent and enter NBA draft | Page 32 | Syracusefan.com

Lydon to hire agent and enter NBA draft

$2.8 million -- the average lifetime value (in 1999 dollars) of a college degree. And that number is spread across all occupations (so sociology, social work, teaching, etc.) and not weighted for quality of the institution, alumni connections, etc. Between the ages of 25-32, the salary delta between those with a college degree and those without is $17,500 per year. That gap only gets larger as the ages increase.

Add to that a really key point that many of these kids are getting into and attending universities they either never would have dreamed of gaining admission to based on test scores and/or couldn't have afforded to attend even if they gained acceptance.

So what's the point? It's not that kids shouldn't go pro whenever they feel like it. It's also not that there can't be tweaks to the system (like a full cost scholarship that includes books, room and board, some sort of small stipend, etc.).

But the idea that these kids are getting screwed b/c they make 'no money' is absolutely absurd. I mean, no one is making the argument that kids in D3 should get paid are they? I mean, where do the universities even get that money?

And, for the record, paying all athletes is every bit as unfair as paying no athletes in that there are very few of these kids that are marketable on their own. Yet you're going to pay them all equally?

You give a stipend of equal amount to all scholarship players. If you want to add the Olympic model to that so that marketable players can further enhance their earning potential, so be it.

Alabama football generated over 100M last season. They can find the money.

It's fine for Boeheim to have local sponsorship deals, a Nike contract and a base salary, but heaven forbid the people that make it possible for him to have all of those streams of revenue get a piece of the pie.
 
It is not free. They earned everything that has been provided to them. Their scholarships are recouped multiple times over before they even play a game! Why is this hard to comprehend? Some of you have serious issues with this topic. If the prospect of compensating players who generate revenue bothers you that much, stop watching college athletics.

The point is that if they are earning their scholarships than at least in some way, shape or form that is a form of compensation. Secondly, what players generate revenue? If you argue that every single football player and basketball player generates revenue, OK -- don't agree with it, but I'll grant it. But other sports? They don't generate revenue beyond the cost associated with having the program yet they put in every bit as much time and energy. So how do you factor that in? Only compensate hoops and football but the others aren't being cheated? Compensate everyone even if they don't generate revenue? That's more fair?

This is a far more nuanced discussion than your grossly oversimplified last sentence suggests.
 
You give a stipend of equal amount to all scholarship players.

Alabama football generated over 100M last season. They can find the money.

Right -- because that's fair to the stars. The guys selling all the jerseys and winning titles should get the same dollars as the guys on the scout team? Definitely fair. And is it only hoops and football?
 
The point is that if they are earning their scholarships than at least in some way, shape or form that is a form of compensation. Secondly, what players generate revenue? If you argue that every single football player and basketball player generates revenue, OK -- don't agree with it, but I'll grant it. But other sports? They don't generate revenue beyond the cost associated with having the program yet they put in every bit as much time and energy. So how do you factor that in? Only compensate hoops and football but the others aren't being cheated? Compensate everyone even if they don't generate revenue? That's more fair?

This is a far more nuanced discussion than your grossly oversimplified last sentence suggests.

As I mentioned before, if we started calling college sports a business, we can end the sham of amateurism. Non revenue generating sports should be grateful that they are subsidized to begin with. That's their compensation. They have a chance to play the sport at a higher level. In the real world, a department that is in the red would be eliminated.
 
Right -- because that's fair to the stars. The guys selling all the jerseys and winning titles should get the same dollars as the guys on the scout team? Definitely fair. And is it only hoops and football?

I edited the comment. And yes, only revenue generating sports. You don't generate revenue, you don't deserve anything.
 
As I mentioned before, if we started calling college sports a business, we can end the sham of amateurism. Non revenue generating sports should be grateful that they are subsidized to begin with. That's their compensation. They have a chance to play the sport at a higher level. In the real world, a department that is in the red would be eliminated.

But again, dude, so many holes. That doesn't at all change the fact that they are putting in a ton of effort and held to the same standards in other areas. Also, if it's a business, then shouldn't they all be eliminated outside of hoops and basketball? Is that what you'd support. That would at least make more sense and allow universities to truly compensate it's revenue generating athletes (which are not ALL football players and basketball players, but those who truly generate revenue).
 
I would say realistically that's an answer on a case-by-case basis. So maybe your theory holds for Lydon but I'd argue Grant is getting zero opportunity to actually expand his offensive game -- the NBA simply doesn't need to help him grow that way. They turn him into a D/rebounding rotational piece and move on to the next guy.

Not saying it's wrong or that Grant was wrong for leaving (he's making good money playing hoops, for christ's sake) or even that Grant ever would have been an offensive threat at that level. Just that it's the reality.

The NBA as a source of development is very debateable, IMO -- I looked at the top 25 scorers a while back and only 4 of the top 25 had averaged less than 10 ppg their first year in the league and at least one of those, Lowry, was a PG (where skills other than scoring are valuable). Point being most successful players in the NBA are least pretty good (relative to other NBA players) from Day 1.

Grant is shooting 36% from 3 this year and is playing 20 minutes a game for a playoff contender. I don't remember him ever being comfortable shooting anything but a layup when he was at Syracuse.
 
I edited the comment. And yes, only revenue generating sports. You don't generate revenue, you don't deserve anything.

So what about -- and I'm just picking a player out of a hat -- Austin Wilson? I mean, he didn't realistically 'generate' any revenue for this university. I'm not knocking the kid simply saying he didn't specifically generate any revenue. I think you'd have to come up with a metric like win shares or something and pay an amount per win share to actually be fair about it, IMO. But even that's tough b/c the metric would have to account for players who are excellent but don't generate stats (offensive linemen, defensive tackles, etc.)
 
And please, stop using alumni connections as a defense for not paying players. Unless you were that guy, no alumnus is breaking their neck to help you. Many of you, especially those that didn't go to SU, overrate the power of the network. Depending on the industry you're in, the name helps, but it certainly doesn't mean you'll get the job.
 
Grant is shooting 36% from 3 this year and is playing 20 minutes a game for a playoff contender. I don't remember him ever being comfortable shooting anything but a layup when he was at Syracuse.

I'm actually surprised he's shooting that well. I mean, that's about 1.5 3s per game, which is like 8th on the team and remember it's a league with a 24-second shot clock so occasionally everyone has to shoot. But I think he does have the potential to be a pretty good shooter. His numbers are better than Sabonis' numbers all around (different players, etc., I get it) but he's not getting touches.
 
And please, stop using alumni connections as a defense for not paying players. Unless you were that guy, no alumnus is breaking their neck to help you. Many of you, especially those that didn't go to SU, overrate the power of the network. Depending on the industry you're in, the name helps, but it certainly doesn't mean you'll get the job.

I agree with this to a large extent, particularly in the sense that it's not really any sort of reason to not pay players. However, if you're joe schmo and you go to X university -- you're likely never meeting any influential alumni and while you may happen to benefit somewhat from the name of the university when you graduate, most only get some general benefit in the form of a recognizable university name. So if you are mingling with influential alumni from time to time, it can't hurt.

Secondly, I think folks like you also need to understand that even dudes who play professionally at some point need that degree. I work with a few former NFL football players who work in sales. They would be successful no matter what -- inherently smart dudes that aren't hurt at all by their confidence and swagger and the fact that they are generally tall dudes in good shape. They don't need degrees, realistically, to do well in medical sales. However, they have them and they wouldn't get the jobs without them. So even a guy like Tom Knight, for example, was a first round corner out of Iowa in 97. Played in the league from 97-04 -- but he was at the same training as me in 2010 b/c he still needs to work.
 
have they played against the best players in the country? We'll see. maybe he will be told he needs to come back.


Isn't it too late at this point? I am pretty sure I read that he hired an agent immediately after his meeting with Boeheim.
 
I don't think he's coming back. However this year's draft is a lot deeper than last year's. If he is slipping out of the first round it would make sense to come back if he would a first round pick next year.
His draft stock is unlikely to go up by coming back but he could be solidly in the first round probably next year. He may go anyway though.


I don't agree with this, that his draft stock can't go up. He was a complimentary player this year, when he was expected to be the alpha dog. He gets one more chance at that if he comes back. He has to improve his aggressiveness about WANTING to take his shot.
 
The Sixers and Thunder didn't and aren't running practices with their offense going through Grant, the Kings didn't with Malachi, etc...with jobs on the line coaches and staff don't have years to hope a guy "develops."

Grant's getting paid and it's fine, I guess, but the extra year he would've gotten the treatment our other big forwards have gotten to showcase and expand their range on offense.
Re: Grant - I think it is "possible" that Jerami's NBA career would have been different and he would be viewed differently if he had stayed one more year. That next year he would have dominated in college and likely would have been a 20+ point scorer, he certainly would have developed a college 3 pt shot. Instead he came out as a talented role player who is being used as a role player. If Lydon came back he could be a 20 pt scorer next year with more of an offensive game than he has now which is essentially a tall 3 pt specialist that is a defensive liability. And... a 6'9" 3 pt specialist that had a hard time getting his shot off against 6'5" players guarding him. He really did not show a willingness to even attempt a shot when guarded by anyone.
 
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How many hours and credits are they working and taking? I'm not saying that some don't, its really hard to be a full time student at a school like Syracuse, and hold a job.
I was a full time college student for 7 plus years and worked throughout. It's not that hard.
 
I would say realistically that's an answer on a case-by-case basis. So maybe your theory holds for Lydon but I'd argue Grant is getting zero opportunity to actually expand his offensive game -- the NBA simply doesn't need to help him grow that way. They turn him into a D/rebounding rotational piece and move on to the next guy.

Not saying it's wrong or that Grant was wrong for leaving (he's making good money playing hoops, for christ's sake) or even that Grant ever would have been an offensive threat at that level. Just that it's the reality.

The NBA as a source of development is very debateable, IMO -- I looked at the top 25 scorers a while back and only 4 of the top 25 had averaged less than 10 ppg their first year in the league and at least one of those, Lowry, was a PG (where skills other than scoring are valuable). Point being most successful players in the NBA are least pretty good (relative to other NBA players) from Day 1.

Yeah, I would agree. Grant, and to an extent, McCullough (though I don't blame him for leaving as a first rounder after he got hurt), are the two recent SU guys that I thought had a legitimate chance to improve their draft stock by returning for another year. I can't blame them for leaving when they did, but I thought they had a chance to really improve a lot with another year here. I think Lydon is better off taking his chances in the NBA and just living in the weight room like, for example, Thon Maker is doing for the Bucks. He came into the league weighing like 215 lbs at 7'1" and he's gotten a hell of a lot stronger just during his rookie season. If Lydon simply gets stronger, I think he'll have a nice career in the NBA.
 
How many full time students work while in school? I have news for you, most college students are poor athletes or not.

Almost everyone I knew and hung out with in college worked at minimum 20 hours a week. I had 2 jobs totaling about 30 hours a week, and played in 2 bands that required another 10-20 hours per week commitment between practicing and gigs, all while majoring in chemistry. I never thought it was particularly hard to do all of this, I just had to budget my time well, and forgo a lot of sleep. No biggie.
 
The "free education" argument is such garbage.

It is for those that do not value the opportunity to earn a degree or for the very upper echelon on players that choose to spend their one year "banishment" to college as a roadblock to their NCAA dreams.
I think Craig Forth, Sonny Spera, Kueth Duany, Sean Kerins, Rakeem Christmas and the dozens of others who took advantage of this opportunity would disagree.
 
From all I've read on Lydon it seems he just wants to grab a modest home/ranch on a huge piece of land to hunt/etc. out west with whatever money he's able to earn. A fancy degree from a university won't help him out all that much with what his dream seems to be. A quick 2 or so million made in a few years of pro ball could though.
 
This has to be one of the saddest indictments of us as a society. This used to be "the dream"...

Why is it sad? So far, three of my kids have not gone to college and i don't have to support any of them. One works in the plumbing trade, has a kid and a house. Another is in the Air Force. A third is graduating this year and will have a state certification in cosmetology. She already has a job at a very large beauty supply/hair styling company and will move into a mentorship once she graduates. She will be working full-time by September, probably bringing in 40-50K with $0 debt - YES, from doing people's hair! They are all happy and made the decision themselves.

My fourth is unknown at this time. He doesn't have a clue what he wants to do.

I am more and more convinced that college is not for everyone and doesn't need to be pushed on everyone. From the loads of debt and many worthless degrees they shovel out, it's just not worth the price of admission in many cases.
 
The highlighted part of your post is one of the biggest hypocrisies perpetrated by the NCAA.

This rule has changed so much it's difficult to keep up, but I don't believe there's a ban on student-athlete employment.

If someone can correct me with a citation, I'd love to see it.
 

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