Malik Brown Leaving Vols

[wfschrec]

One positive for bringing him on board is the continued goodwill and relationship building it would bring us in South Florida. Dwyer high school puts them out and Syracuse has been good to Julian Whigham. Taking on Malik would strengthen those relationships and ya hope send the message that Syracuse and this staff will take care of your kids and not hold any grudges or ill will. That said the staff should only bring him in if he's been a good student, done the training work off the field that is required and can help the team win football games.

This ^^^ my God sometimes we have a short sighted fan base ...

 

[wfschrec]

We are perfectly fine at DE. Ron Thompson and Zeke Johnson, who imo are the 2 best DE's on our team right now will be Sophmores next season. Donnie Simmons, who is probably right up there with those 2 talent wise will be a Sr, or possibly a Jr? Then we have Chris Slayton (rsFR), and then whoever we bring in this class. As of right now we have Dana Levine, and we are in a very good spot for Qaadir Sheppard. and a couple other very talented DE's. We are perfectly fine at the position. We don't need to take a flyer on a kid who has already shown to be injury prone, and couldn't hack it at Tennessee.

The DE position's leading returning sack artist is Welch with 4 ... Bromley who was a DT took his 9 sacks with him to the NFL ... we don't have a good pass rush at all and everything we hear about that position is great and all but there was a reason this kid was sought after ... our pass rush from the edge has a lot left to be desired and if the staff sees him as an upgrade go and get him ... by the time he will set foot on the field he will have 2 years in a college S&C program and have a two year advantage over a guy like Sheppard or Levine which is a big deal ... this would also set the staff up to pursue other needs. Everything we are resting our faith on from the DE position is potential ... no one has gone out and shown it yet ... if potential was always a direct translation to a guarantee Reddish would be a first team all american the way he was talked up on this board. I'm not saying he isn't a good player but he hasn't lived up to the hype around him IMHO ... we see glowing reports about these kids but haven't seen it on the field ... until I do I remain skeptical. Strengthen your relationship with Dwyer and grab a guy you put your heart and soul into recruiting ... UT has already invested a year in developing this kid for us, why not?

 

[PhatOrange]

The DE position's leading returning sack artist is Welch with 4 ... Bromley who was a DT took his 9 sacks with him to the NFL ... we don't have a good pass rush at all and everything we hear about that position is great and all but there was a reason this kid was sought after ... our pass rush from the edge has a lot left to be desired and if the staff sees him as an upgrade go and get him ... by the time he will set foot on the field he will have 2 years in a college S&C program and have a two year advantage over a guy like Sheppard or Levine which is a big deal ... this would also set the staff up to pursue other needs. Everything we are resting our faith on from the DE position is potential ... no one has gone out and shown it yet ...?

After sitting out he'll have 3 years left to play to. I don't know if he'd be a rush end sack master but he'll be a another big body. I'd guess he'd play up around 265/270.

 

[tep624]

This ^^^ my God sometimes we have a short sighted fan base ...

And sometimes we have a fan base overrun with bleeding hearts that either don't have any pride or principles or choose to ignore them when it benefits them. If Gus Edwards tomorrow said, hey SU staff, I made a bad decision and I want to transfer to SU, I'd be all for it. Same EXACT circumstances as Brown. Why would I be all for it? Because it a time of difficulty he carried himself with class and even though he flipped he showed that he had character. Not all situations are the same and I'm personally getting tired of the "he's an 18 year old kid" argument applied to every single one of these situations. The program is all about bringing in kids that have strong character and are good leaders - maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong but based on the WAY in which he made his decision I don't see it.

That being said, I have full faith in Coach Shafer and his staff and if they do their due diligence and decide that he's worth the shot then so be it.

 

[Van111]

He is an 18 year old kid that made a bad decision and it isn't too late to rectify ... if he is talented and can play and wants to come on board why not? He fell in love with the glitz of the SEC which is easy to do at that age while looking to pick a school ... why not bring him on board if he wants to be at SU? Especially if he can rush the passer ... we need that.

If I were HCSS, and I am not, I would tell the kid, (if he called as it is likely he wouldn't want to make that call as well as HCSS making that call either), no hard feelings but this is our current situation. You would have to earn that spot on my team and also convivce me why you want to wear the "True Orange" colors once more. Liklihood MB would call, very low I would think. A tweet or e-mail...maybe. But for any reason should he come here, all is forgiven in my book.

 

[cuseincincy]

I would have no problem at all if HCSS decided to take a look at Brown. Some of you are so sensitive. Bottom line is if he can play SU can use him. 18 year old kids make stupid decisions all the time. And stop being so high and mighty about "recruiting over kids." You know why some schools recruit over kids? Because they can. I would hate to think SU ever tells a kid, "don't worry Johnny, we'll never recruit anyone else that might be better than you." Yes, Ishaq and Ebeneezer and Malik should have realized that the schools they chose will continue to bring in players just like them or better every year. SU would if they could but history shows that they just don't get as many highly rated recruits as often these other schools (but they would if they could).

 

[cuseincincy]

We are perfectly fine at DE. Ron Thompson and Zeke Johnson, who imo are the 2 best DE's on our team right now will be Sophmores next season. Donnie Simmons, who is probably right up there with those 2 talent wise will be a Sr, or possibly a Jr? Then we have Chris Slayton (rsFR), and then whoever we bring in this class. As of right now we have Dana Levine, and we are in a very good spot for Qaadir Sheppard. and a couple other very talented DE's. We are perfectly fine at the position. We don't need to take a flyer on a kid who has already shown to be injury prone, and couldn't hack it at Tennessee.

And you know this because of what evidence? None of those players you mention have ever proven a thing in a Division I football game. Who knows if Brown will ever be any good?

 

[xc84]

I would have no problem at all if HCSS decided to take a look at Brown. Some of you are so sensitive. Bottom line is if he can play SU can use him. 18 year old kids make stupid decisions all the time. And stop being so high and mighty about "recruiting over kids." You know why some schools recruit over kids? Because they can. I would hate to think SU ever tells a kid, "don't worry Johnny, we'll never recruit anyone else that might be better than you." Yes, Ishaq and Ebeneezer and Malik should have realized that the schools they chose will continue to bring in players just like them or better every year. SU would if they could but history shows that they just don't get as many highly rated recruits as often these other schools (but they would if they could).

I agree. If the coaches still like him, recruit him. If not, that's fine too. It's up to the coaches and I don't feel I have enough insight into the situation to say that my opinion is better than Shafer's and his coaches'. I recall when HCDM passed on L. Murray back when Murray said he wanted out of UCF. I was fine with that too and it worked out well for Murray but it's not the standard for all transfer situations.

 

[cuseincincy]

Russell Wilson was slightly better than average.

Colt Brennan did OK. Also in past history: Tashard Choice, Ryan Mallet, Trace Armstrong, Jeff Hostetler, Randy Moss, Jeff George, Troy Aikman, Nick Foles. All did pretty good at their 2nd school (3rd in Moss's case).

 

[wfschrec]

And sometimes we have a fan base overrun with bleeding hearts that either don't have any pride or principles or choose to ignore them when it benefits them. If Gus Edwards tomorrow said, hey SU staff, I made a bad decision and I want to transfer to SU, I'd be all for it. Same EXACT circumstances as Brown. Why would I be all for it? Because it a time of difficulty he carried himself with class and even though he flipped he showed that he had character. Not all situations are the same and I'm personally getting tired of the "he's an 18 year old kid" argument applied to every single one of these situations. The program is all about bringing in kids that have strong character and are good leaders - maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong but based on the WAY in which he made his decision I don't see it.

That being said, I have full faith in Coach Shafer and his staff and if they do their due diligence and decide that he's worth the shot then so be it.

I don't have a bleeding heart at all ... if he helps us win &%& football games you bring him in ... you people act like he murdered someone ... stop with the he hurt my feelings bull crap and get over it. If anything the people looking to punish him for a scale that obviously was fabricated just to provide him the justification he needed to flip gets you in an uproar so be it ... By letting by gones be bygones I'm sticking to my principles ... I'm not acting like a jilted lover because of some twitter nonsense.

 

[cuseinchina]

I don't have a bleeding heart at all ... if he helps us win &%& football games you bring him in ... you people act like he murdered someone ... stop with the he hurt my feelings bull crap and get over it. If anything the people looking to punish him for a scale that obviously was fabricated just to provide him the justification he needed to flip gets you in an uproar so be it ... By letting by gones be bygones I'm sticking to my principles ... I'm not acting like a jilted lover because of some twitter nonsense.

Yes. this reaction is nuts. The kid got pulled in by a bunch of attention paid by an SEC team when the team he committed to was dealing with a string of drawn out personnel changes and not providing full disclosure to recruits. How the heck can you blame a 17/18 year old kid for that decision? If the kid can play and makes us better, and still wants to come here, bring him in (assuming no character issues).

How many of you expressing this sort of negative stuff towards a kid said of Marrone's decision - "it's a business."??

 

[wfschrec]

Yes. this reaction is nuts. The kid got pulled in by a bunch of attention paid by an SEC team when the team he committed to was dealing with a string of drawn out personnel changes and not providing full disclosure to recruits. How the heck can you blame a 17/18 year old kid for that decision? If the kid can play and makes us better, and still wants to come here, bring him in (assuming no character issues).

How many of you expressing this sort of negative stuff towards a kid said of Marrone's decision - "it's a business."??

It takes a ton of humility and character to admit he was wrong and reach out to Shafer as far as I'm concerned ... I'm willing to bet Malik could go to bunch of other places ... FIU, FAU etc that are closer to home and play ... but he is reaching back out to SU ... honestly that takes some guts.

 

[PhatOrange]

It takes a ton of humility and character to admit he was wrong and reach out to Shafer as far as I'm concerned ... I'm willing to bet Malik could go to bunch of other places ... FIU, FAU etc that are closer to home and play ... but he is reaching back out to SU ... honestly that takes some guts.

That's a good point.

 

[tep624]

Yes. this reaction is nuts. The kid got pulled in by a bunch of attention paid by an SEC team when the team he committed to was dealing with a string of drawn out personnel changes and not providing full disclosure to recruits. How the heck can you blame a 17/18 year old kid for that decision? If the kid can play and makes us better, and still wants to come here, bring him in (assuming no character issues).

How many of you expressing this sort of negative stuff towards a kid said of Marrone's decision - "it's a business."??

I don't mind the debate here but the generalizations and the "18 year olds shouldn't be accountable for anything" arguments are old.

Doug Marrone deciding to leave ultimately led to Brown flipping, but HIS decision to flip on signing day (which put the new staff in a shitty position, having a position to fill and no time to do it), to insult the program while doing it, and to do it in a way in which he was disrespectful to the new staff is on him. Again, if Shafer and his staff do the due diligence and decide he's a good fit, and the team wants him, then I'll stand behind it. Marrone's decision, how shadowy it was to the recruits, how they were misled, how the entire offensive staff left, etc, that all sucks, and I don't blame a single one of the commits that did flip for flipping. But the way he did it, to me, does not reflect the qualities of leadership and personal accountability that the staff preaches or reflects the "next man up" philosophy. And we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

 

[wfschrec]

I don't mind the debate here but the generalizations and the "18 year olds shouldn't be accountable for anything" arguments are old.

Doug Marrone deciding to leave ultimately led to Brown flipping, but HIS decision to flip on signing day (which put the new staff in a shitty position, having a position to fill and no time to do it), to insult the program while doing it, and to do it in a way in which he was disrespectful to the new staff is on him. Again, if Shafer and his staff do the due diligence and decide he's a good fit, and the team wants him, then I'll stand behind it. Marrone's decision, how shadowy it was to the recruits, how they were misled, how the entire offensive staff left, etc, that all sucks, and I don't blame a single one of the commits that did flip for flipping. But the way he did it, to me, does not reflect the qualities of leadership and personal accountability that the staff preaches or reflects the "next man up" philosophy. And we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

And that is up to Shafer to decide ... I will agree with that ... and no one ever said he shouldn't be accountable ... he made a mistake and by reaching out to Shafer he wants to rectify it ... do you honestly feel his flip was solely on him? That he created this scale that I bet to this day he couldn't recite if he had to ... you can hold him accountable to a point but him being lied to a few days earlier doesn't help and to be honest can you blame a kid that gets lied to, to put what could be his future in the hands of an incomplete staff with no security whatsoever ... hell if I saw coaches jumping ship (like Hackett) I would be skittish too ... no one here says he is innocent ... however not giving a second opportunity is cutting your nose of to spite your face if he can contribute. You make it sound like everything on the SU end was handled so smoothly ...what do you expect some of these kids to do? So what he didn't handle it smoothly ... nor did members of the SU community ... he has moved past it ... but you can't?

 

[wfschrec]

That's a good point.

Thanks I'm good for 1 a month :noidea:

 

[tep624]

And that is up to Shafer to decide ... I will agree with that ... and no one ever said he shouldn't be accountable ... he made a mistake and by reaching out to Shafer he wants to rectify it ... do you honestly feel his flip was solely on him? That he created this scale that I bet to this day I couldn't recite if he had to ... you can hold him accountable to a point but him being lied to a few days earlier doesn't help and to be honest can you blame a kid that gets lied to, to put what could be his future in the hands of an incomplete staff with no security whatsoever ... hell if I saw coaches jumping ship (like Hackett) I would be skittish too ... no one here says he is innocent ... however not giving a second opportunity is cutting your nose of to spite your face if he can contribute. You make it sound like everything on the SU end was handled so smoothly ...what do you expect some of these kids to do? So what he didn't handle it smoothly ... nor did members of the SU community ... he has moved past it ... but you can't?

I brought up the whole Marrone leaving fiasco - clearly I don't feel that SU handled everything smoothly. If they did, maybe Zach Allen and Gus Edwards don't decommit at all. SU has culpability up to a point, the old staff specifically. It was a difficult situation and it wasn't handled well with the recruits and there were consequences to that.

My main point in all of this is that you can't make decisions with broad brush strokes, just because Mitch Kimble decommits from NIU to come to SU (which was one of the comments I read above), it doesn't mean Malik Brown should be given a second chance because he flipped from us. Every situation is unique. For the most part, the posters who are expressing that they don't think the staff should take him back, it's not because he flipped on his commitment in and of itself (which some posters are basing their responses on). It's because of how it was done. People need to be held accountable for the decisions they make and the consequences of those decisions. I think it's great that he's come back to Shafer's staff, and if as part of his reaching out he's apologized, that's great too. Again, it's up to the staff and the team to decide if they want him back and if they feel he's sincere and can be a help to the team, then so be it.

Me personally, I wouldn't take him back if I was the staff unless the team voted on it and they were in favor of it. It's not fair to the other kids (who were going through the same thing in that 2013 class) that handled themselves well in spite of the situation and didn't leave the new staff high and dry.

 

[money3189]

I brought up the whole Marrone leaving fiasco - clearly I don't feel that SU handled everything smoothly. If they did, maybe Zach Allen and Gus Edwards don't decommit at all. SU has culpability up to a point, the old staff specifically. It was a difficult situation and it wasn't handled well with the recruits and there were consequences to that.

My main point in all of this is that you can't make decisions with broad brush strokes, just because Mitch Kimble decommits from NIU to come to SU (which was one of the comments I read above), it doesn't mean Malik Brown should be given a second chance because he flipped from us. Every situation is unique. For the most part, the posters who are expressing that they don't think the staff should take him back, it's not because he flipped on his commitment in and of itself (which some posters are basing their responses on). It's because of how it was done. People need to be held accountable for the decisions they make and the consequences of those decisions. I think it's great that he's come back to Shafer's staff, and if as part of his reaching out he's apologized, that's great too. Again, it's up to the staff and the team to decide if they want him back and if they feel he's sincere and can be a help to the team, then so be it.

Me personally, I wouldn't take him back if I was the staff unless the team voted on it and they were in favor of it. It's not fair to the other kids (who were going through the same thing in that 2013 class) that handled themselves well in spite of the situation and didn't leave the new staff high and dry.

NIU flip was giving a example of how it happens both ways not to justify Malik's actions

 

[sufandu]

If he'd be better than the LB's on the roster, and he's interested, bring him in. If he contributed to us winning, everyone would forget about him flipping. Anyone that takes an objective look at what a program like UT has to offer versus us, can understand why he would be infatuated with it, especially after the coaching upheaval we had.

 

[cuseinchina]

I don't mind the debate here but the generalizations and the "18 year olds shouldn't be accountable for anything" arguments are old.

Doug Marrone deciding to leave ultimately led to Brown flipping, but HIS decision to flip on signing day (which put the new staff in a shitty position, having a position to fill and no time to do it), to insult the program while doing it, and to do it in a way in which he was disrespectful to the new staff is on him. Again, if Shafer and his staff do the due diligence and decide he's a good fit, and the team wants him, then I'll stand behind it. Marrone's decision, how shadowy it was to the recruits, how they were misled, how the entire offensive staff left, etc, that all sucks, and I don't blame a single one of the commits that did flip for flipping. But the way he did it, to me, does not reflect the qualities of leadership and personal accountability that the staff preaches or reflects the "next man up" philosophy. And we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

I'm not sure it was really all that disrespectful. The kid's heart told him Syracuse, but his checklist told him Tennessee. He probably would not have resorted to the checklist if the staff didn't turn over and Marrone and the athletic department didn't handle it so badly. The guy asked him why he flipped and he sung Tennessee praises and referred to a rationale decision making process. What really happened is the guy got scared of by turmoil at SU and got an SEC offer late and grabbed it. Not sure if a rationale 30 year old wouldn't have made the same decision as that 18 year old.

 

[anomander]

I have no freakin' idea if he can help SU. Neither do you.

But yeah, best to completely ignore the kid if he might be interested in coming here. Spite is great for character building.

what did anything in my post make you think of spite? my post was totally based on how he has performed (or not) since he left high school. if he was in the 2 deep for Tenn and wanted to transfer to Cuse I would be all for it. however i don't see why we need to take a chance on a kid who has already battled injuries, and managed to get buried on another teams depth chart.

 

[Whitey23]

little update (i think)

However, after an injury-plagued redshirt freshman season with the Volunteers, Brown decided to transfer from Tennessee, and said that he isn't ruling out Syracuse as a destination.

"Yeah," Brown wrote in a text message when asked about the possibility."I'm looking at every option available."

http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootb...e_tennessee_defensive_end_commit_flipped.html

 

[wfschrec]

what did anything in my post make you think of spite? my post was totally based on how he has performed (or not) since he left high school. if he was in the 2 deep for Tenn and wanted to transfer to Cuse I would be all for it. however i don't see why we need to take a chance on a kid who has already battled injuries, and managed to get buried on another teams depth chart.

Not sure he was necessarily directing it at you ... I know your argument was based more on depth than anything else.

 

[OburgOrange]

It takes a ton of humility and character to admit he was wrong and reach out to Shafer as far as I'm concerned ... I'm willing to bet Malik could go to bunch of other places ... FIU, FAU etc that are closer to home and play ... but he is reaching back out to SU ... honestly that takes some guts.

Do we know for sure he is reaching out to SU?

 

[Whitey23]

Do we know for sure he is reaching out to SU?

little update (i think)

However, after an injury-plagued redshirt freshman season with the Volunteers, Brown decided to transfer from Tennessee, and said that he isn't ruling out Syracuse as a destination.

"Yeah," Brown wrote in a text message when asked about the possibility."I'm looking at every option available."

http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootb...e_tennessee_defensive_end_commit_flipped.html