Marrone talent pool

[TheCusian]

2014 Syracuse Offense Leading QB- Hunt Leading RB-PTG Leading WR- West Best OL- Hickey Yep, Marrone's on the hook for all of them.

Exactly.

 

[GoSU96]

I really think you are misinterpreting my post. He wasn't recruiting against the like of St. John Fisher and Mercyhurst - his last class was looking pretty good when he left.

Marrone had a lot of confidence in his coaching ability at this level. He needed the right guys for his system - ratings be damned.

He definitely wasn't happy with how and to whom he was losing certain guys.

Very frustrated. I don't think he hated recruiting itself, I think he hated losing guys he thought were traditional fits to places like Rutgers and doing it with less resources.

 

[OrangePA]

Of course it was. We didn't have a d-1 qb. we might not have had a d-2 qb. Not to mention that we had the least skilled players in the league. People here over rate our rb's and wide outs. They were not ACC caliber. When you don't have one player drafted, you don't have talent. Period.

I am in the camp that from top to bottom, last year's team was one of the most talented we have seen in nearly fifteen years.

I think that last year's record was a reflection in large measure of an offensive team that admittedly did not understand the offense that it was being asked to run. This spring, the QB who won the Texas Bowl the year before, acknowledged that his side of the ball did not know how to run the plays - he described the offensive as "master of nothing."

Injuries also played a role - it was truly remarkable how many we sustained last year - at the QB position alone - even our kicker was out for the year.

And, I believe that the record was a reflection, in part, of the head coach still learning how to run/administer the team.

As far as recruiting is concerned, you have to consider that Doug Marrone did not have the IPF or the bowl wins or the ACC to sell.

He had the Greg Robinson era to sell.

And that was a tough sell.

 

[SoBristol]

...

Part of the OL gap could have been addressed by Shafer last year by aggressively pursuing and landing some high end JUCO OL - that didn't happen either. So the OL thing isn't all on Marrone.

Agree. Marrone was able to fill gaps in the roster with JUCO recruits, and so far Shafer has not matched that.
One example -- Shafer could have pursued a QB to compete with/back up Hunt. Instead, he entered 2014 with nothing behind Hunt except two RFs and Long.
Having noted that, this is a terrible time to make comparisons. We are coming off 3 and 9, and 0 for November, and ESPN thinks we are 14th in the ACC. Can only get better from here.

 

[Scooch]

I can't help but chime in with this... I know the depths of where he was picking up from, but these are Marrone's FBS win totals... 3, 6, 4, 7.

With all the "Marrone *won* with..." posts it's fair to note that he actually was under .500 both in conference and against FBS opponents (20-25).

He was a good coach but he wasn't Urban Meyer or something.

 

[RF2044]

I can't help but chime in with this... I know the depths of where he was picking up from, but these are Marrone's FBS win totals... 3, 6, 4, 7.

With all the "Marrone *won* with..." posts it's fair to note that he actually was under .500 both in conference and against FBS opponents (20-25).

He was a good coach but he wasn't Urban Meyer or something.

What was his starting point, Scooch? Starting at the program's nadir surely impacted that W / L totals, wouldn't you say?

 

[dasher]

I am in the camp that from top to bottom, last year's team was one of the most talented we have seen in nearly fifteen years.

I think that last year's record was a reflection in large measure of an offensive team that admittedly did not understand the offense that it was being asked to run. This spring, the QB who won the Texas Bowl the year before, acknowledged that his side of the ball did not know how to run the plays - he described the offensive as "master of nothing."

Injuries also played a role - it was truly remarkable how many we sustained last year - at the QB position alone - even our kicker was out for the year.

And, I believe that the record was a reflection, in part, of the head coach still learning how to run/administer the team.

As far as recruiting is concerned, you have to consider that Doug Marrone did not have the IPF or the bowl wins or the ACC to sell.

He had the Greg Robinson era to sell.

And that was a tough sell.

That is a lot of excuses for Doug. Let's just go with facts. He didn't or couldn't bring in a quality QB. His big QB recruit is now playing wide out for another school. I know this, we don't have good qb play at this time. And the ones we do have, got hurt and were out. It is impossible to win like that if you are Syracuse. If you are Ohio st., fine. Our wide outs last year were not as good as when we had Mike Williams. Of course before Marrone threw him off the team. Provo was a better tight end than anything we had last year. Carter and Brinkley were a lot better than any of the backs we played with last year. Where is all of this talent you speak of? It's nonsense.

 

[GoSU96]

As far as recruiting is concerned, you have to consider that Doug Marrone did not have the IPF or the bowl wins or the ACC to sell.

He had the Greg Robinson era to sell.

And that was a tough sell.

Bang.

 

[Scooch]

What was his starting point, Scooch? Starting at the program's nadir surely impacted that W / L totals, wouldn't you say?

Of course, and I acknowledge that in my post.

He won 7 FBS games in his 4th season. That's nice.

He left us in better shape than when he started, but he left the job unfinished.

 

[dasher]

Bang.

Here I come to save the day...It just didn't seem that the NFL guys were as impressed with saint doug. He had trouble getting an interview. We will see if he gets another job.

 

[dasher]

What was his starting point, Scooch? Starting at the program's nadir surely impacted that W / L totals, wouldn't you say?

His overall schedule wasn't what we are facing now by any means. SS first year was better than any year Marrone had here.

 

[qdawgg]

You're Welcome? My point is that if he was such a good coach, we should have that caliber of player now because he would have developed them regardless of talent level, but that's not true. He needed high end talent to make those guys into NFL players, and he developed the rest of the guys into good depth, problem is when he left, we had depth but no more high end talent. Not even Marrone can make mousse out of mud, he needs a little chocolate and milk too and he didn't know how to find it himself.

I'm not even sure where to start with this post.

- He wasn't the coach last year, the talent clearly regressed last year, I watched it. So he did develop something and then left, thus ending his ability to continue to develop.
- High end talent. :rolling: I'm guessing you said that tongue in cheek or something along those lines. I mean... you didn't write that and believe that Marrone had high end talent, right?
- But you're saying, he had high end talent that he developed into NFL players... Sounds great. He developed the rest of the guys into good depth... awesome. But then he left and it's his fault what the new coaching staff did with the remaining players?

 

[qdawgg]

His overall schedule wasn't what we are facing now by any means. SS first year was better than any year Marrone had here.

Oh please tell me I am misreading this... I have to be. SS first year was a better year than any year Marrone ever had? Is this what you are saying?

 

[dasher]

Oh please tell me I am misreading this... I have to be. SS first year was a better year than any year Marrone ever had? Is this what you are saying?

yes. 7-6 in the ACC With a bowl win against a Big 10 school. What year was better in the old Big East?

 

[CIL]

That is a lot of excuses for Doug. Let's just go with facts. He didn't or couldn't bring in a quality QB. His big QB recruit is now playing wide out for another school. I know this, we don't have good qb play at this time. And the ones we do have, got hurt and were out. It is impossible to win like that if you are Syracuse. If you are Ohio st., fine. Our wide outs last year were not as good as when we had Mike Williams. Of course before Marrone threw him off the team. Provo was a better tight end than anything we had last year. Carter and Brinkley were a lot better than any of the backs we played with last year. Where is all of this talent you speak of? It's nonsense.

Once again, it's recruiting the right kids for his system. Zach Allen's skill set is not really idea for TCU's current system. Had he come here who knows? And as for the backs, didn't Jerome Smith run for 1200 yards in Marrone's last season here? I'm pretty confident PTG, McFarlene, et. Could have done the same.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I really think you are misinterpreting my post. He wasn't recruiting against the like of St. John Fisher and Mercyhurst - his last class was looking pretty good when he left.

Marrone had a lot of confidence in his coaching ability at this level. He needed the right guys for his system - ratings be damned.

I should clarify - we know Marrone was confident and was meticulous when game planning. He absolutely believed in what he was doing.

But I think, based on certain statements he's made and input from others, that in addition to that belief he was at times content to settle with what was comfortable to him, especially when it came to the skill positions. It seems like he wanted to roll with one guy - Paulus had to play so much because Marrone said Nassib wasn't ready, Gordon wasn't of interest because we had Smallwood committed, Cornelius was going to be the only receiver in his class, etc. He believed in knowing what he wanted and that his guy could do enough. That left him vulnerable to injuries, lack of player development, and ultimately left behind a roster of solid but not spectacular guys.

I think Marrone had recruiting trending in the right direction, but it is disappointing that so many of these guys from his classes that we thought would be big time difference makers have kind of just been meh. We don't know if they would have been any different under Marrone, but I think the ceiling was low.

Marrone is fascinating because who he is and what he believes in have gotten him exceptionally far in life. At the peak of his profession though he's a .500 college coach and a sub .500 NFL coach. That might be as far as he can go.

 

[OburgOrange]

All I know is that a guy who has worked in the program for nearly 35 yrs told a group of us at Fort Drum last fall, that the incoming group of freshmen were the best that he had seen in 15 yrs. and now we have RW on board and a potentially huge recruiting year.

 

[Full_Rebar]

His overall schedule wasn't what we are facing now by any means. SS first year was better than any year Marrone had here.

What part exactly? Go ahead. I'll wait for you to tell me the best win from that season.

 

[OrangeDW]

yes. 7-6 in the ACC With a bowl win against a Big 10 school. What year was better in the old Big East?

2012 was much better than 2013. We were legitimately good in 2012. We played one of our toughest OOC schedules ever, had a great road win at Missouri and played tough against USC(and got robbed against Northwestern). Hammered WVU in the bowl game. We were in every game that year. No blowouts.

2013 was good to get to another bowl and win it, but we got absolutely pounded several times. We can excuse FSU and Clemson...but not Georgia Tech. They wouldn't have stood out on the 2012 schedule. Just a pathetic showing that day.

 

[dasher]

What part exactly? Go ahead. I'll wait for you to tell me the best win from that season.

Minn.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Solid win, but I'll take the win over #Louisville, and a road win at Missouri over that one.

 

[Rocco]

OK. Why are you so taken aback by this thread? Its very clear that GROB left us with more talent than Marrone did right? So i dont get why you are being a dick.

Marrone was obviously the better coach - but his recruiting in hindsight was awful. Grob's in hindsight was actually pretty good.

Shafer is on the verge of possibly having the best class in 18-20 years.

Marrone also had the luxury of recruiting to a school that just came off of a smooth 10-37 four year run, let alone the embarrassing GameDay segment in 2008 featuring Floyd Little about how far the program has fallen. Everyone knew Syracuse was a laughingstock. The initial recruiting job he had was ridiculously challenging.

So yeah, his first 2-3 years was similar to selling ice to eskimos.

We need to put things into perspective.

 

[OrangeDW]

I can't help but chime in with this... I know the depths of where he was picking up from, but these are Marrone's FBS win totals... 3, 6, 4, 7.

With all the "Marrone *won* with..." posts it's fair to note that he actually was under .500 both in conference and against FBS opponents (20-25).

He was a good coach but he wasn't Urban Meyer or something.

Sadly, we've had exactly one season better than those 6 and 7 FBS win seasons, in the 2000's.

By our standards in the 21st century, he won.

I've seen two good football teams here since McNabb graduated. 2001 and 2012.

Based on that, I wish we still had him. Nobody else has been able to do squat here in 15 years.

 

[rrlbees]

Marrone also had the luxury of recruiting to a school that just came off of a smooth 10-37 four year run, let alone the embarrassing GameDay segment in 2008 featuring Floyd Little about how far the program has fallen. Everyone knew Syracuse was a laughingstock. The initial recruiting job he had was ridiculously challenging. So yeah, his first 2-3 years was similar to selling ice to eskimos. We need to put things into perspective.

A good coach who is a good recruiter doesn't sell the past. They sell the future, a vision, the staff and what a recruit can do to be part of a turn around. We could have a great class this year. We went 3-9 last year. I'm sure HCSS is selling the future.

 

[anomander]

I really think you are misinterpreting my post. He wasn't recruiting against the like of St. John Fisher and Mercyhurst - his last class was looking pretty good when he left.

Marrone had a lot of confidence in his coaching ability at this level. He needed the right guys for his system - ratings be damned.

imo the biggest falsity on this board is that Marrone was this horrible recruiter, while Shafer is the 2nd coming of Urban Meyer. All things equal, i'm not sure we would see a huge difference. As you said Marrone had a very strong class going before he left, and the class before that was solid. Marrone had a lot going against him. The state of the program was in shambles, we had bottom of the barrel facilities, and Big East affiliation. Compare that to what Shafer has right now with the ACC affiliation, taking over after 2 bowl wins in 3 years, and totally renovated facilities. Even with all that we still had recruiting classes towards the bottom of the conference. Our recruiting has improved, but I would have liked to see what Shafer would have done with what Marrone inherited, and vice versa. I should also say this isn't a knock on Shafer, but more in defense of Marrone. I think just because he didn't like recruiting he gets knocked for it. Not liking it, and not knowing what he was doing are 2 different things. Plus most importantly, as you said, Marrone knew how to recruit for his system. I really think we would be a top 25 program right now if Marrone were still here.