Melo on the move...

[cuseinseattle]

I think the lesson to be learned is don't try to do something you are not good at for the team. It's like when a player tries to play through a shoulder problem to help his team in baseball. They get vilified for being a waste of money when they are just trying to contribute. Melo went somewhere and accepted being the number 3 guy. They ran a crap offense because their head coach is not good and basically made Melo a catch and shoot guy to space the floor and had him play the 4 exclusively because PG doesn't want to do it. So Melo did and then when the whole thing goes to crap it's his fault and not the point guard of the team who is the highest usage player on the planet earth.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Melo had only himself to blame for that. He basically forced the trade to NY and they had to strip the cupboards bare to get him. If he had not been chasing the last dollar and just taken a max deal as a FA he would have had a terrific young supporting cast.

Their bad contracts and D'Antoni blowing up Stat's knees had a lot more to do with their roster limitations.

People will believe what they want on this though. I'm just not buying that anybody involved in that trade really mattered.

 

[newmexicuse]

Good point. The Knicks front office is filled with the best and the brightest they would have used the money really well. It was just that greedy selfish Melo. Good lord.

The Knuts have had their front office problems over the years, but at the point in time when they traded for Melo, Walsh was in charge and doing it right. They had a young core playing .500 ball at the time. I always believed that Walsh would not have given up nearly what he did for melo if he truly had a free hand, but Dolan forced the trade. To get melo the knicks gave up Chandler, Mozgov, Felton, Gallinari and two # 1s. If Melo waits and signs as a FA and the Knicks still have that core plus picks they are a strong playoff team plus they have the pieces to deal to get the second superstar. Instead, Melo was traded to team with over the hill vets that could only squeak out one more decent season and no future assets. If Melo really cared about winning could he have not seen that ??? He is not a stupid man, just a greedy one IMHO.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Walsh was in charge and doing it right.

I propose that picking up the option on Billups, only to use their only amnesty provision on Billups right after picking that option, suggests they weren't doing it right.

That's how it went down:

Knicks pick up $14.2M option to keep PG Billups

Billups waived by Knicks using amnesty clause

Imagine a scenario where the Knicks pay Chauncey the 3.7M to opt out, and then amnesty a busted Stat, in order to max cap space around Melo. With the allure of NY, how different is their trajectory at that point?

Instead Stat tied up their cash and they did things like trade picks for an about to get waived Bargnani.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Walsh was a terrible GM. If anyone was greedy it was that dinosaur stealing money.

 

[newmexicuse]

I propose that picking up the option on Billups, only to use their only amnesty provision on Billups right after picking that option, suggests they weren't doing it right.

That's how it went down:

Knicks pick up $14.2M option to keep PG Billups

Billups waived by Knicks using amnesty clause

Imagine a scenario where the Knicks pay Chauncey the 3.7M to opt out, and then amnesty a busted Stat, in order to max cap space around Melo. With the allure of NY, how different is their trajectory at that point?

Instead Stat tied up their cash and they did things like trade picks for an about to get waived Bargnani.

They used the amnesty on Billips to acquire Chandler, good move at that time. Walsh had effectively lost his authority after the Melo deal and resigned around this time. Without Walsh, the Knicks were no longer doing it right.

The Bargnani deal was beyond horrid. The Knicks should have received a #1 to take him off of Toronto's hands. Instead they gave up an UNPROTECTED #1, dumber than dumbo.

Post-Melo deal the landscape had changed from doing it right to desperately trying to patch together pieces for a team that could make a title run. There was no chance what they were doing then would be anything foundational and would only have a very short shelf life even if they had a successful season or two.

It could have been so different, if Melo had signed as a free agent, the Knicks kept their young core, and stayed with Walsh's plan.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

They used the amnesty on Billips to acquire Chandler, good move at that time.

You're completely glossing over the fact that at one time they didn't even need to make a choice about whether to amnesty Billups. They could have gotten out of his deal well before that.

That's kind of a big yadda yadda yadda.

 

[cuseinseattle]

The Knuts have had their front office problems over the years, but at the point in time when they traded for Melo, Walsh was in charge and doing it right. They had a young core playing .500 ball at the time. I always believed that Walsh would not have given up nearly what he did for melo if he truly had a free hand, but Dolan forced the trade. To get melo the knicks gave up Chandler, Mozgov, Felton, Gallinari and two # 1s. If Melo waits and signs as a FA and the Knicks still have that core plus picks they are a strong playoff team plus they have the pieces to deal to get the second superstar. Instead, Melo was traded to team with over the hill vets that could only squeak out one more decent season and no future assets. If Melo really cared about winning could he have not seen that ??? He is not a stupid man, just a greedy one IMHO.

I think you are overstating the value of Chandler and Gallinari. They are not bad players but I don't think they would be the difference. The Knicks only gave up 1 first rounder in the deal and 2 second rounders. At least that is my memory. I'm not a fan of Donnie Walsh and think he was a bad GM but I'm also not a huge Knicks fan.

 

[cpatrocks]

ATL is waiving. So come Saturday he’s playing for Boeheim’s Army. You heard it here first.

wait, doesn't he still have 3 years of eligibility?

 

[Cusefan0307]

All the players the Knicks gave up for Melo deteriorate quickly after the trade anyway.

Felton got fat.
Chandler is always hurt and has missed about 2 full seasons and isn’t the same player.
Gallinari is always hurt and missed nearly three full seasons since the trade.
Mozgov doesn’t fit today’s NBA.


The talk of the Melo trade killing the Knicks doesn’t exactly equal out when looking at what the Nuggets did with those players.

 

[newmexicuse]

I think you are overstating the value of Chandler and Gallinari. They are not bad players but I don't think they would be the difference. The Knicks only gave up 1 first rounder in the deal and 2 second rounders. At least that is my memory. I'm not a fan of Donnie Walsh and think he was a bad GM but I'm also not a huge Knicks fan.

I checked and your memory is better than mine, it was only one first round pick and two second round picks as you say. Nonetheless, it stripped NY of all of it's good young players and an important future asset.

Chandler has had a pro's pro type of solid career. He would be a great complimentary piece on any team. Gallinari has been set back by injuries. Point is, at that time, they had decent value and could have been a big part of a package to get a superstar next to Melo other than over the hill Amari.

Not saying Walsh was perfect, but in the post-Ewing era he was probably the best GM they have had until now. I really like what the new management is now doing for the knicks as long as they remain patient and stay the course.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Chandler has played over 65 games 3 times in 7 years since he was traded from the Knicks.

The rest:
8
43
DNP
62

 

[OrangeDW]

Chandler has played over 65 games 3 times in 7 years since he was traded from the Knicks.

The rest:
8
43
DNP
62

Knicks fans thought Gallo was a STAR. Lol.

Chandler is decent, but a dime a dozen. Mistake to make the deal or not...the Knicks had Carmelo, Amare, and Tyson Chandler. Come playoff time, only one guy showed up every year. The others were getting dominated by mediocre players or hurting themselves doing trick dunks in warmups or punching fire extinguisher glass. And the one who showed up gets the blame from some people(even SU fans). Hilarious.

 

[Cusefan0307]

And Amare wasn't over the hill at the time of the trade.

He got hurt after Melo arrived in the playoffs.

Revisionist history.

They were supposed to form a core of a good Knick team.

 

[OrangeDW]

And Amare wasn't over the hill at the time of the trade.

He got hurt after Melo arrived in the playoffs.

Revisionist history.

They were supposed to form a core of a good Knick team.

Yup. Amare was having a great season when they got Melo and was 28. Averaged 25 and 8 and played 78 games that season. He pulled a muscle in his back before game 2 of the playoffs and was terrible in games 2,3, and 4.

 

[Knicks411]

All the players the Knicks gave up for Melo deteriorate quickly after the trade anyway.

Felton got fat.
Chandler is always hurt and has missed about 2 full seasons and isn’t the same player.
Gallinari is always hurt and missed nearly three full seasons since the trade.
Mozgov doesn’t fit today’s NBA.


The talk of the Melo trade killing the Knicks doesn’t exactly equal out when looking at what the Nuggets did with those players.

To slightly play devils advocate, the Nuggets didn't really decline when they moved Melo either.
Scanning the records quickly, it looks like the Knicks have had a better record than the Nugs in one season since the trade (in 2014, Knicks won 37 games, Denver won 36)

Not sure exactly what it means, but it is kind of funny

 

[Knicks411]

Yup. Amare was having a great season when they got Melo and was 28. Averaged 25 and 8 and played 78 games that season. He pulled a muscle in his back before game 2 of the playoffs and was terrible in games 2,3, and 4.

I think the real thing that killed Amare was his knees. D'Antoni played him a ton of minutes that first year. Impossible to say that was the sole cause, he had bad knees already, but it didnt help

 

[cuseinseattle]

Knicks fans thought Gallo was a STAR. Lol.

Chandler is decent, but a dime a dozen. Mistake to make the deal or not...the Knicks had Carmelo, Amare, and Tyson Chandler. Come playoff time, only one guy showed up every year. The others were getting dominated by mediocre players or hurting themselves doing trick dunks in warmups or punching fire extinguisher glass. And the one who showed up gets the blame from some people(even SU fans). Hilarious.

This post made my day.

 

[realorange]

Melo stayed in NY because Phil promised he get him help. When he got to OKC he was asked to do something that was not his strength. We know how both those situations worked out.
Why are either of these scenarios Melo's fault?

 

[cuseinseattle]

Melo stayed in NY because Phil promised he get him help. When he got to OKC he was asked to do something that was not his strength. We know how both those situations worked out.
Why are either of these scenarios Melo's fault?

They aren't.

 

[realorange]

They aren't.

Exactly, but some on this board would make you believe that Melo was a big reason both these teams failed.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Exactly, but some on this board would make you believe that Melo was a big reason both these teams failed.

The funny thing about his reup with the Knicks is that the other places like Chicago people were talking about him going to, he wouldn't have won there either and would have lost like 20 mil in cash.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

They needed to dump Schroder (and his salary) after acquiring Trae Young.

How does that work. Don't they now have Melo's salary

 

[ssbriefcase]

Knicks fans thought Gallo was a STAR. Lol.

Chandler is decent, but a dime a dozen. Mistake to make the deal or not...the Knicks had Carmelo, Amare, and Tyson Chandler. Come playoff time, only one guy showed up every year. The others were getting dominated by mediocre players or hurting themselves doing trick dunks in warmups or punching fire extinguisher glass. And the one who showed up gets the blame from some people(even SU fans). Hilarious.

Man what I would've done to have a few of you guys around to hear the H0T Takes in Denver at the time. They thought Gallo was a star 100%. I would tell them he hit his ceiling, and it was like being surrounded by wolves on Nuggets island.

Used to argue at happy hours, hearing about that trade and how it was all Melos fault, but they'd be better off, for at least a year. Lol. Good times.

They made the playoffs every single year he was here. Before him, they advertised the teams that the nuggs were playing against, on billboards all over here, to get fans to games. That's sad. Nothing but record sellouts every season he was here. And while they don't look as bad now, I love asking how many playoffs they've made since. Nothing but H0T Takes round these parts.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I think Melo in ATL is his final destination. Knowing Daryl Morey a bit; I can’t see him truly making a move for him. Melo’s end of career is shaping up sort of like the way it did for Nique. Melo is basically a spot up shooter now. Limited lift, athleticism drop-off, handle is OK but not great, below average defender, etc. He can help ATL if he accepts his role. In no way do I think he’s going to HOU, lol.