Melo on the move...

[Cusefan0307]

in DIRECT RESPONSE to my post you typed this word for word:

"Nobody is comparing Melo to Lebron, but you. And you keep moving the goalposts. First it was not top 5 in the MVP. People found out he finished 3rd and now it is he was never the 2nd best player."

"and YOU keep moving the goalposts"

in my post earlier asking "what fake news are you talking about - it was 100% to clarify you didnt think i said anything to do with he was never "in top 5 in the mvp. people found out he finished 3rd and now it he was never 2nd best player"

I brought up 2nd best player 2 times - 1 because someone else said he was 2-5 that year or something similar and then the 2nd was in comparison to your Durant/Melo being weak going to Warriors. It was an explanation for the backlash that Durant got for it that Melo wouldnt have.

So, sorry if i think you are being a D.

That's fine. A lot of it is team related so that's where I disagree with you.

Kevin Durant probably is still losing to the Warriors with Russell Westbrook if he doesn't join Steph Curry.

Would he get the same criticism as Melo? I'm not sure, but I don't think so.

 

[CusefanATL]

That's fine. A lot of it is team related so that's where I disagree with you.

My point on Melo not being lucky as Wade was exactly that point!!!

"and didnt get lucky to be put in the position that Wade did to get 3 rings"

I promise you - we are closer togethe on this than you think.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Chauncey got the MVP votes and the “credit” for helping that team “win”...he was coming off that great Detroit run that included a championship. I always felt that he got a little too much reactionary credit and it was more at the expense of Iverson. Like Iverson was holding them back because of his play style was the narrative and that he went to Detroit and completely flopped really put that narrative in overdrive.

While Chauncey probably was a better fit for that team than Iverson, Carmelo was still the best player on the team - just like he was when Iverson was there. Interestingly, people tend to forget about/ignore how Chauncey didn’t get it done against the Lakers. Had he lived up to his 6th in MVP voting, Mr. Big Shot, the ultimate clutchest winner guard ever reputation that some were pushing at the time, the Nuggets win that series.

Good points. I’m not getting into this whole debate. I actually think DEN had good talent around Melo. LBJ not so much sans Kyrie and in 2007. Nene/KMart/Camby were all good frontline players but all were injury prone. Billups still was an excellent stabilizing 1B to Melo. But, the Lakers and Spurs were in the West. Those teams were special. Enough said.

Melo to me is like a Bernard King/Adrian Dantley/Nique. HOF player for sure. A bit one dimensional and not the type who can truly carry a team. Prolific scorer most of his career. I forgot how potent Dantley was with Utah back in the early 80s. Kinda crazy! Melo always had an excellent mid-range game. His strengths were never a great handle or above the rim ball. He was never in great shape physically it seemed the past five years or so minimum. Melo to me never was THAT comfortable handling the ball. He was always best raising after two or three dribbles. Prefers that it seems. Obviously a ball stopper. One thing that always bothered me was after a playoff game in DEN I believe; he said to the media or to Sager that he was (paraphrasing) being doubled and triple-teamed on every play. Uh, no. But, regardless, I always admired his mid-range game when that art form was dying out. His professional attitude in NY/OKC must be commended as well.

 

[Trueblue25]

Couldn't disagree more on either point.
Great article
How Carmelo Anthony helps the Knicks score more efficiently beyond his own points

Also there's a ton of dedicated memes making fun of Melo not winning a ring. I've received most of those by my hater friends, even got a new one 2 weeks ago.

As far as syracuse fans care he’s a champion

 

[OrangeDW]

Good points. I’m not getting into this whole debate. I actually think DEN had good talent around Melo. LBJ not so much sans Kyrie and in 2007. Nene/KMart/Camby were all good frontline players but all were injury prone. Billups still was an excellent stabilizing 1B to Melo. But, the Lakers and Spurs were in the West. Those teams were special. Enough said.

Melo to me is like a Bernard King/Adrian Dantley/Nique. HOF player for sure. A bit one dimensional and not the type who can truly carry a team. Profilic scorer most of his career. I forgot how potent Dantley was with Utah back in the early 80s. Kinda crazy! Melo always had an excellent mid-range game. His strengths were never a great handle or above the rim ball. He was never in great shape physically it seemed the past five years or so minimum. Melo to me never was THAT comfortable handling the ball. He was always best raising after two or three dribbles. Prefers that it seems. Obviously a ball stopper. One thing that always bothered me was after a playoff game in DEN I believe; he said to the media or to Sager that he was (paraphrasing) being doubled and triple-teamed on every play. Uh, no. But, regardless, I always admired his mid-range game when that art form was dying out. His professional attitude in NY/OKC must be commended as well.

I think Denver generally had “make the playoffs” talent. Chauncey was a very good 1B when he was there, and they had a couple other nice players as you noted. But they typically didn’t have much depth or a strong bench from what I remember.

Looking it up, that 2009 Nuggets team was: Billups, Dahntay Jones(token starter, JR Smith played more, Carmelo, Martin, and Hilario. Off the bench: Smith, Kleiza, Anthony Carter, and Chris Andersen were their main guys.

His 2nd best team, the 2013 Knicks: different starting combos due to injury, but main guys were Carmelo, JR Smith, Felton, Shumpert, Kidd(who was 39), T. Chandler, Novak, Prigioni, Ronnie Brewer, Copeland. Amare played 23 mpg for 29 games.

We’re not exactly talking stacked teams.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I think Denver generally had “make the playoffs” talent. Chauncey was a very good 1B when he was there, and they had a couple other nice players as you noted. But they typically didn’t have much depth or a strong bench from what I remember.

Looking it up, that 2009 Nuggets team was: Billups, Dahntay Jones(token starter, JR Smith played more, Carmelo, Martin, and Hilario. Off the bench: Smith, Kleiza, Anthony Carter, and Chris Andersen were their main guys.

His 2nd best team, the 2013 Knicks: different starting combos due to injury, but main guys were Carmelo, JR Smith, Felton, Shumpert, Kidd(who was 39), T. Chandler, Novak, Prigioni, Ronnie Brewer, Copeland. Amare played 23 mpg for 29 games.

We’re not exactly talking stacked teams.

For sure. DEN was really young also but sure were entertaining when they were clicking. JR Smith showed a lot of promise but was unreliable and the injuries were just too much to overcome with their big guys. Kleiza was too hot and cold. Carter...meh. Spurs and Lakers were just too ‘mature’ as well.

 

[Day2]

I think Denver generally had “make the playoffs” talent. Chauncey was a very good 1B when he was there, and they had a couple other nice players as you noted. But they typically didn’t have much depth or a strong bench from what I remember.

Looking it up, that 2009 Nuggets team was: Billups, Dahntay Jones(token starter, JR Smith played more, Carmelo, Martin, and Hilario. Off the bench: Smith, Kleiza, Anthony Carter, and Chris Andersen were their main guys.

His 2nd best team, the 2013 Knicks: different starting combos due to injury, but main guys were Carmelo, JR Smith, Felton, Shumpert, Kidd(who was 39), T. Chandler, Novak, Prigioni, Ronnie Brewer, Copeland. Amare played 23 mpg for 29 games.

We’re not exactly talking stacked teams.

Melo made the playoffs his first - what? - ten years in the league? None of the other big names from that draft class can say that...and most of them were playing in the weaker East.

 

[ssbriefcase]

Melo made the playoffs his first - what? - ten years in the league? None of the other big names from that draft class can say that...and most of them were playing in the weaker East.

And the Nuggs hadn't made the playoffs for 8 straight years before Melo, and never missed with him.

 

[Day2]

Sources: Melo to sign with Rockets on Monday

 

[KevMonstah]

I would love to silence all debate about Melo by stating the following (and I think it's
almost doable):

Through his first ten years, Carmelo was a better NBA player than Paul Pierce, for
comparison's sake. He'd taken Denver to the playoffs for ten straight years in a
harder conference than Pierce had done (four times) in a weaker conference. The
stats, Melo a better scorer by like 3 ppg, Pierce a better passer and rebounder, by
roughly one each, aren't that different. The big difference is, after year ten, Pierce
gets to play with Garnett and Allen, wins a title, loses game 7 in another final, and
suddenly he's a big winner, whereas Melo forces his way via trade to the Knicks,
and plays with and is coached by assorted flotsam and jetsam for the next six years.
I get forcing the trade, because the NBA was about to have its lockout and alter
the max contracts allowed, and since Melo wanted the max deal available, he had to
be traded. Had he simply waited out and signed the free agent deal, yes, he loses
out on some dollars - lots, actually - but he ends up on a far superior Knicks team
which probably makes a lot more noise for good reasons than it did for bad ones.
And his rep is considerably higher.

But if you even attempt to point out the comp between Pierce and Melo, people
think you are nuts.

Kev

 

[SoBeCuse]

Melo made the playoffs his first - what? - ten years in the league? None of the other big names from that draft class can say that...and most of them were playing in the weaker East.

For sure. Taking nothing away from Melo; I think it goes to show how good Denver was. They DID have talent around him. Youth and some injury prone guys for sure but there was talent, obviously. I’m not saying there was a Wade or Pippen playing there but they were good. It’s just that SA and LA were outstanding teams. Denver also did not play defense and could not get stops when they needed to.

 

[Day2]

For sure. Taking nothing away from Melo...

Isn't that precisely what you're doing?

 

[SoBeCuse]

Isn't that precisely what you're doing?

Lol. Of course not. He was obviously the leader of the team. But he wasn’t carrying a bunch of bums. They had some talent, obviously. Defense was a big bugaboo for Denver. He was part of that problem.

 

[Day2]

Lol. Of course not. He was obviously the leader of the team. But he wasn’t carrying a bunch of bums. They had some talent, obviously. Defense was a big bugaboo for Denver. He was part of that problem.

Every team in the NBA has talent.

 

[OrangeDW]

Lol. Of course not. He was obviously the leader of the team. But he wasn’t carrying a bunch of bums. They had some talent, obviously. Defense was a big bugaboo for Denver. He was part of that problem.

He wasn’t carrying bums. All the same, when he got drafted there Denver had been one of the worst NBA franchises for a long time. They get him and go to the playoffs 7 straight times, including a WCF. He did a heck of a job there as the franchise player IMO.

Here’s hoping he’s got one good season left in him. Year 16 is OLD. Him and LeBron are probably the only relevant players left from that draft.

 

[SoBeCuse]

He wasn’t carrying bums. All the same, when he got drafted there Denver had been one of the worst NBA franchises for a long time. They get him and go to the playoffs 7 straight times, including a WCF. He did a heck of a job there as the franchise player IMO.

Here’s hoping he’s got one good season left in him. Year 16 is OLD. Him and LeBron are probably the only relevant players left from that draft.

Yep. Definitely a great job and a franchise player. I’m not dissing the guy for crying out loud like the other poster is claiming, lol.

 

[Day2]

I think Melo in ATL is his final destination. Knowing Daryl Morey a bit; I can’t see him truly making a move for him. Melo’s end of career is shaping up sort of like the way it did for Nique. Melo is basically a spot up shooter now. Limited lift, athleticism drop-off, handle is OK but not great, below average defender, etc. He can help ATL if he accepts his role. In no way do I think he’s going to HOU, lol.

This aged well.

 

[SoBeCuse]

This aged well.

That was a fail for sure.

 

[OrangeDW]

Side note hot take question: has anyone called Trevor Ariza greedy and selfish and overpaid since he left Houston for a large one year deal in Phoenix? Chose money over winning right?

Or are they too busy making it out like he’s so great and Melo is the selfish bum who will come in and ruin the team and there’s not room for that narrative yet?

Ariza’s rep has grown by leaps and bounds this offseason, somehow.

Insert obligatory nerd buzzwords: ball stopper, 3 and D, iso, blah blah blah

 

[SoBeCuse]

Side note hot take question: has anyone called Trevor Ariza greedy and selfish and overpaid since he left Houston for a large one year deal in Phoenix? Chose money over winning right?

Or are they too busy making it out like he’s so great and Melo is the selfish bum who will come in and ruin the team and there’s not room for that narrative yet?

Ariza’s rep has grown by leaps and bounds this offseason, somehow.

Insert obligatory nerd buzzwords: ball stopper, 3 and D, iso, blah blah blah

Yeah Ariza is an odd one. Never quite understood the infatuation with his game as well as he and his camp to be able to racketeer big money contracts.

 

[Day2]

Side note hot take question: has anyone called Trevor Ariza greedy and selfish and overpaid since he left Houston for a large one year deal in Phoenix? Chose money over winning right?

Or are they too busy making it out like he’s so great and Melo is the selfish bum who will come in and ruin the team and there’s not room for that narrative yet?

Ariza’s rep has grown by leaps and bounds this offseason, somehow.

Insert obligatory nerd buzzwords: ball stopper, 3 and D, iso, blah blah blah

Melo and Donovan McNabb are arguably the most unfairly criticized players in their respective sports over the last 20 years. Top five at least.

 

[OrangeDW]

Thoughts: how come all these experts never point out how much better of a rebounder Carmelo is than Ariza? How come they never point out Melo’s lack of assists in OKC were due to his role, like they do with Ariza?

Ariza is such a great spot up shooter and Melo was so, so bad last year...wait, Ariza shot a whopping 1% better from 3. 37% vs. 36%.

The one sided narratives about this from the sports media are tiring. “All Melo can do is score, Ariza does so many things better!”

 

[Day2]

Thoughts: how come all these experts never point out how much better of a rebounder Carmelo is than Ariza? How come they never point out Melo’s lack of assists in OKC were due to his role, like they do with Ariza?

Ariza is such a great spot up shooter and Melo was so, so bad last year...wait, Ariza shot a whopping 1% better from 3. 37% vs. 36%.

The one sided narratives about this from the sports media are tiring. “All Melo can do is score, Ariza does so many things better!”

And Melo was a much better shooter the first half of the year. Playing PF in the West, of course his legs weren't going to last the entire season.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Melo and Donovan McNabb are arguably the most unfairly criticized players in their respective sports over the last 20 years. Top five at least.

I don’t know about that, lol. How many jerseys of each do you own?

 

[OrangeDW]

And Melo was a much better shooter the first half of the year. Playing PF in the West, of course his legs weren't going to last the entire season.

Literally every single take I’ve heard is that all Melo can do is score and the Rockets don’t need that, and Ariza is better at everything else.

It’s weird and flat out dishonest. Carmelo is a better rebounder and passer than Ariza. It’s really not close. Not sure why there always has to be a narrative. Can’t the sports guys just talk sports? Point out the pluses and minuses? And maybe THEN give their opinion on how it will work out? They do everything backwards. Throw out a hot take narrative and then bend all the details to neatly fit their little scenario.

Edit: also, apparantly being able to score in other ways beyond standing in the corner and making a couple 3’s a game is now a negative.