Melo Stays with the Knicks !!!!

[Alsacs]

Dd you watch them last year? Felton, JR, and Shumpert were awful. Felton and Shump had issues with trades and coaching - and JR is JR.

If Melo did what he did statistically and they still couldn't win? From a numbers standpoint - it's not on him.

Last year: best numbers in a lot of categories, no playoffs.

Year before: good numbers, #2 in the East.

Well I love Melo because of the banner he single handily won Syracuse, but what your saying is Melo having a career year on his own doesn't even guarantee you a playoff appearance which means he isn't as good as we want to believe.

 

[TheCusian]

Well I love Melo because of the banner he single handily won Syracuse, but what your saying is Melo having a career year on his own doesn't even guarantee you a playoff appearance which means he isn't as good as we want to believe.

No. What I'm saying is that by his numbers - it's clear he was by and far the best player on his team. Those numbers say he deserves the Max, their record says he needs a new coach and new teammates - both of which will be addressed.

We can agree on the banner .

 

[Alsacs]

So one Gasol brother chooses Chicago because he wants to win, despite money. The other brother chooses max money on a bad team?

It hardly matters, as a lot can happen in a year. But NY is a much better situation than Orlando if you care about winning.

So if Charlotte or some crap team offered Pau Gasol a MAX offer he wouldn't have gone there? I think he would have considered any MAX offer from any team. I think its obvious both situations are different Pau is 33 and has made his money, but if nobody offers him a lot of money he takes the best situation. The Lakers which had Gasol's Bird rights offered him 2 years 11 million not a lot of money. Chicago is giving Gasol 3 years 22 million that is more. If the Knicks could have offered Gasol more money then maybe he would have gone their, but the Knicks didn't have the space. Chicago had the space and is a great situation for him.

Marc Gasol next year will be a UFA for the first time in 4 years. If the Knicks commit their full most likely available cap space its 4 yrs 68 million right now Gasol makes 15.8 million which means a MAX offer for him next year is 20.3 million. If Gordon Hayward got a MAX offer then Marc will get FULL MAX offer's. The Knicks by making that Calderon trade sacrificed 5 million in cap space next year which hurts. I don't get why people expect FAs to take discounts to play for a franchise that has 1 playoff series win since 2002.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

If last year was one of Melo's 2 best years and he couldn't lead the Knicks on his own to the 8th seed in the East that is sad. Atlanta wanted in the lottery and Knicks couldn't catch them. I love Melo but if your a top 10 player in the crappy Eastern conference YOU HAVE TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS.

How do you feel about Kevin Love?

 

[TheCusian]

So if Charlotte or some crap team offered Pau Gasol a MAX offer he wouldn't have gone there? I think he would have considered any MAX offer from any team. I think its obvious both situations are different Pau is 33 and has made his money, but if nobody offers him a lot of money he takes the best situation. The Lakers which had Gasol's Bird rights offered him 2 years 11 million not a lot of money. Chicago is giving Gasol 3 years 22 million that is more. If the Knicks could have offered Gasol more money then maybe he would have gone their, but the Knicks didn't have the space. Chicago had the space and is a great situation for him. Marc Gasol next year will be a UFA for the first time in 4 years. If the Knicks commit their full most likely available cap space its 4 yrs 68 million right now Gasol makes 15.8 million which means a MAX offer for him next year is 20.3 million. If Gordon Hayward got a MAX offer then Marc will get FULL MAX offer's. The Knicks by making that Calderon trade sacrificed 5 million in cap space next year which hurts. I don't get why people expect FAs to take discounts to play for a franchise that has 1 playoff series win since 2002.

You're assuming Phil won't make more moves to free up space for another Max...

 

[djcon57]

I am a Syracuse fan and love Melo but Paul George is the BETTER PLAYER. George can play defense. George melted down because of the catfish he was caught in and women extorting him for a lot of money. That plus the Pacers killed their locker room with Bynum and Turner.

This is 100% speculation. Maybe George sucked because he wasn't that good?

 

[Knicks411]

You're assuming Phil won't make more moves to free up space for another Max...

For next summer, that's gonna be pretty close to impossible. Phil can't just make cap space appear out of nowhere.

How do you feel about Kevin Love?

At least some of the counter to that is prob the east vs west.

 

[Alsacs]

How do you feel about Kevin Love?

Minnesota makes the playoff if they are in the Eastern Conference. I have NO DOUBT about that. Melo made the playoffs every year in Denver. I call a spade a spade if Melo is a top 10 player in the NBA he should GUARANTEE you a playoff appearance especially in a putrid Eastern Conference.
Minnesota won more games than Atlanta and they only played 30 games against Eastern teams last year instead of 52 games.

Minnesota went 17-13 against the East last year. Phoenix the 9th best Western team is likely the 3rd best team in the East last year.

 

[Alsacs]

This is 100% speculation. Maybe George sucked because he wasn't that good?

Listen I love Melo but if you asked the 30 NBA GM who would they rather have Melo or George I BELIEVE more would pick George.

 

[Alsacs]

You're assuming Phil won't make more moves to free up space for another Max...

I would love to know what those moves could possibly be? Also, I believe that 17 million is assuming the Knicks don't take of Shumpert.

 

[djcon57]

Listen I love Melo but if you asked the 30 NBA GM who would they rather have Melo or George I BELIEVE more would pick George.

You didn't address my post. You said he sucked because of some catfish story that hasn't been proven and locker room speculation. This is speculation.

 

[Alsacs]

You didn't address my post. You said he sucked because of some catfish story that hasn't been proven and locker room speculation. This is speculation.

He sucked comparing to dominating like he did in the first half. I don't know if the catfish happened or not, but George is better than Carmelo Anthony IMO. He is younger, can score, plays better defense, while Carmelo is the better scorer.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Minnesota makes the playoff if they are in the Eastern Conference. I have NO DOUBT about that.

Eh. Your lack of doubt doesn't mean much. If you're going to throw it in Melo's face that he missed the playoffs one time, you're giving a LOT of rope to Love for never making the playoffs.

It's kind of difficult to win when, other than Melo, your entire salary cap is taken up by what's left of Amare, the genius that is Bargnani, and 55 games of Tyson Chandler.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

At least some of the counter to that is prob the east vs west.

I'm more open to that counter if they had ever even come close to making the playoffs.

 

[Knicks411]

I'm more open to that counter if they had ever even come close to making the playoffs.

Agreed, I'm just saying what i figured the counter would be. I think Melo was awesome last year.

 

[Alsacs]

Eh. Your lack of doubt doesn't mean much. If you're going to throw it in Melo's face that he missed the playoffs one time, you're giving a LOT of rope to Love for never making the playoffs.

It's kind of difficult to win when, other than Melo, your entire salary cap is taken up by what's left of Amare, the genius that is Bargnani, and 55 games of Tyson Chandler.

Love won more games LAST YEAR than Carmelo did playing 22 more games against THE TOUGHER conference. I mean your logic is a joke. The WEST IS A LOT TOUGHER and BTW when the roster Melo had in Denver WAS BETTER THAN Minnesota's ever been. My god who has Love's best teammate been? Nikola Pekovic or Ricky Rubio? If Minnesota was in the East they are in the playoffs. BTW go read the freaking argument people were calling Melo's last year one of his best two seasons. If Melo is a top 10 player having a top 2 season of his career HE SHOULD GUARANTEE YOU A PLAYOFF APPEARANCE.

 

[Alsacs]

If Melo is a top 10 player in the NBA and has one of his two best career seasons and is 29 years short of the whole team being rookies he should lead you 41 wins. Especially since Philly and Boston should have been 7 or 8 wins off the bat. Orlando and Milwaukee should have been another 5 or 6 wins. That is 12 to 14 gimme wins last year and lost multiple games to Boston and Milwaukee and probably the only or one of the few teams in the NBA to do that.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Love won more games LAST YEAR than Carmelo did playing 22 more games against THE TOUGHER conference. I mean your logic is a joke. The WEST IS A LOT TOUGHER and BTW when the roster Melo had in Denver WAS BETTER THAN Minnesota's ever been. My god who has Love's best teammate been? Nikola Pekovic or Ricky Rubio? If Minnesota was in the East they are in the playoffs. BTW go read the freaking argument people were calling Melo's last year one of his best two seasons. If Melo is a top 10 player having a top 2 season of his career HE SHOULD GUARANTEE YOU A PLAYOFF APPEARANCE.

I appreciate that you put some parts in all caps. It helps me to know which parts are really important.

My logic isn't a joke - it's actually very consistent and is based on comparison of real things. You're the one that is using hypotheticals as a basis for your argument.

Alsacs says "If Minnesota was in the East they would have made the playoffs." Well, actually, we can't know that.

OttoinGrotto says "Melo had one of his best seasons statistically." Then points to the fact that Melo had the highest per game averages in his career in minutes played, rebounds, and blocked shots, and had his best season ever shooting threes and free throws by percentage.

I agree with you that Melo should guarantee you a playoff appearance, but you know what, it didn't happen. If you look at Melo, and the year he had though, I just don't see how you can point to him as the problem, especially since it's the first time he's ever missed the playoffs.

FWIW, I think if you swap Rubio and Pekovic with Stoudemire and Bargnani, the Knicks absolutely make the playoffs last season. But I wouldn't hinge an argument's logic on that, because we can't know it.

 

[Alsacs]

I appreciate that you put some parts in all caps. It helps me to know which parts are really important.

My logic isn't a joke - it's actually very consistent and is based on comparison of real things. You're the one that is using hypotheticals as a basis for your argument.

Alsacs says "If Minnesota was in the East they would have made the playoffs." Well, actually, we can't know that.

OttoinGrotto says "Melo had one of his best seasons statistically." Then points to the fact that Melo had the highest per game averages in his career in minutes played, rebounds, and blocked shots, and had his best season ever shooting threes and free throws by percentage.

I agree with you that Melo should guarantee you a playoff appearance, but you know what, it didn't happen. If you look at Melo, and the year he had though, I just don't see how you can point to him as the problem, especially since it's the first time he's ever missed the playoffs.

FWIW, I think if you swap Rubio and Pekovic with Stoudemire and Bargnani, the Knicks absolutely make the playoffs last season. But I wouldn't hinge an argument's logic on that, because we can't know it.

Fair point but we know for a fact if Minnesota were in the East they would have made the playoffs they won 40 games last year Atlanta won 38 games. Atlanta went 10-20 against the West, Minnesota went 23-29 against the West. Minnesota would have been the 8th seed at worst if they were in the East. If and when the NBA expands into Seattle and somewhere else Minnesota is likely going to get relocated into the East anyway. If you gave the Knicks Rubio and Pekovic they make the playoffs because they playing in the Eastern conference just like if the actual Minnesota TWolves were in the East they would have made the playoffs.

 

[Knicks411]

I guess we can't say for sure, but it seems pretty clear to me that if Minnesota were in the east th ey make the playoffs.

 

[TheCusian]

If Melo is a top 10 player in the NBA and has one of his two best career seasons and is 29 years short of the whole team being rookies he should lead you 41 wins. Especially since Philly and Boston should have been 7 or 8 wins off the bat. Orlando and Milwaukee should have been another 5 or 6 wins. That is 12 to 14 gimme wins last year and lost multiple games to Boston and Milwaukee and probably the only or one of the few teams in the NBA to do that.

If I were a GM, I'd ALWAYS put individual stats above team wins (not just scoring, rebounding, etc. - but advanced stats and every metric I could get my hands on). Melo by the stats is worth more than his team showed last season.

 

[TheCusian]

For next summer, that's gonna be pretty close to impossible. Phil can't just make cap space appear out of nowhere. At least some of the counter to that is prob the east vs west.

True ... But finding a couple of million a year is not hard. I still maintain Phil/Melo/Fish/NYC is more enticing than the max at a place like Orlando.

 

[TheCusian]

Love won more games LAST YEAR than Carmelo did playing 22 more games against THE TOUGHER conference. I mean your logic is a joke. The WEST IS A LOT TOUGHER and BTW when the roster Melo had in Denver WAS BETTER THAN Minnesota's ever been. My god who has Love's best teammate been? Nikola Pekovic or Ricky Rubio? If Minnesota was in the East they are in the playoffs. BTW go read the freaking argument people were calling Melo's last year one of his best two seasons. If Melo is a top 10 player having a top 2 season of his career HE SHOULD GUARANTEE YOU A PLAYOFF APPEARANCE.

Also missed in all this - the Knicks missed the playoffs by a game or something in the final days of the regular season.

 

[Knicks411]

True ... But finding a couple of million a year is not hard. I still maintain Phil/Melo/Fish/NYC is more enticing than the max at a place like Orlando.

Could be, I'm not making that argument. But they'll be lucky if they can afford one full max next year. They could be in line to do the same for the summer after as well

 

[KaiserUEO]

BTW go read the freaking argument people were calling Melo's last year one of his best two seasons. If Melo is a top 10 player having a top 2 season of his career HE SHOULD GUARANTEE YOU A PLAYOFF APPEARANCE.

why is this an unalienable truth??

seems to me that its a made up talking point by you.

so by this logic, having 1 superstar GUARANTEE'S you a playoff.

2 must GUARANTEE you a deep run.

and 3 or more most GUARANTEE a Championship.

why do they play the games??? seems to me that all we need is off season moves.