Mick Cronin to UCLA

[sutomcat]

Is anyone familiar with what happened with Howland there? He started out like gangbusters -- and recruited a lot of top flight talent right out of the gate, like you pointed out. Had quite a bit of initial success [final fours, etc.], then it all seemed to dry up.

From afar, it seemed like the players tired of his antics / he wore out his welcome, which caused the recruiting faucet to trickle to a close, which in turn caused his teams to not perform as well. Anyone clued into what really went down?

Report: Howland lost control of UCLA players

Court Visions: The problem with Ben Howland

 

[UnknownOrange]

Lol Rick Barnes stinks

 

[cuseinseattle]

Lol Rick Barnes stinks

He's won almost 700 games.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Report: Howland lost control of UCLA players

Court Visions: The problem with Ben Howland

Good find. Yes, he recruited some terrific players but lost control of their behavior.

 

[manleyzoo]

Is anyone familiar with what happened with Howland there? He started out like gangbusters -- and recruited a lot of top flight talent right out of the gate, like you pointed out. Had quite a bit of initial success [final fours, etc.], then it all seemed to dry up.

From afar, it seemed like the players tired of his antics / he wore out his welcome, which caused the recruiting faucet to trickle to a close, which in turn caused his teams to not perform as well. Anyone clued into what really went down?

Two years after the 2008 FF, AAU coaches in SoCal soured on him.

 

[UnknownOrange]

He's won almost 700 games.

He can win 700 more. Come March (the only time of year that matters) he stinks

 

[manleyzoo]

He was a good coach for UCLA. He made something like 3 Final Fours in a row, if I remember correctly. He recruited really well, too, and brought in a bunch of future NBA players, some of whom became all stars.

That's only part of the story. There's a lot more to it.

 

[manleyzoo]

Good find. Yes, he recruited some terrific players but lost control of their behavior.

Sort of

 

[Alsacs]

Is anyone familiar with what happened with Howland there? He started out like gangbusters -- and recruited a lot of top flight talent right out of the gate, like you pointed out. Had quite a bit of initial success [final fours, etc.], then it all seemed to dry up.

From afar, it seemed like the players tired of his antics / he wore out his welcome, which caused the recruiting faucet to trickle to a close, which in turn caused his teams to not perform as well. Anyone clued into what really went down?

UCLA boosters/alumni led by Bill Walton hated the playing style of the program under Howland.
Bill Walton calls for UCLA coach Ben Howland's job on ESPN

UCLA reacted to these alumni and fired Howland after his team lost to Minnesota in the NCAAT in an upset.

Walton hates slow basketball. Walton felt Howland wasted Shabazz Muhammad’s talent and so UCLA moved on.

 

[IthacaMatt]

UCLA boosters/alumni led by Bill Walton hated the playing style of the program under Howland.
Bill Walton calls for UCLA coach Ben Howland's job on ESPN

UCLA reacted to these alumni and fired Howland after his team lost to Minnesota in the NCAAT in an upset.

Walton hates slow basketball. Walton felt Howland wasted Shabazz Muhammad’s talent and so UCLA moved on.

Tomcat's second article hits on that point; the newer, higher profile recruits looked at UCLA as a stepping stone, they didn't want to learn to play defense (which Howland was really good at). He opened up the offense to run the break more, but his players stopped buying in.

As much as I love Bill Walton and his playing days, you HAVE to be able to run a half-court offense to win in the NCAA tournament or in the NBA playoffs. The easy fast breaks get taken away by good defensive teams. You have to learn how to play alternate styles in order to win.

 

[manleyzoo]

UCLA boosters/alumni led by Bill Walton hated the playing style of the program under Howland.
Bill Walton calls for UCLA coach Ben Howland's job on ESPN

UCLA reacted to these alumni and fired Howland after his team lost to Minnesota in the NCAAT in an upset.

Walton hates slow basketball. Walton felt Howland wasted Shabazz Muhammad’s talent and so UCLA moved on.

He lost his recruiting pipeline in SoCal

 

[manleyzoo]

Tomcat's second article hits on that point; the newer, higher profile recruits looked at UCLA as a stepping stone, they didn't want to learn to play defense (which Howland was really good at). He opened up the offense to run the break more, but his players stopped buying in.

As much as I love Bill Walton and his playing days, you HAVE to be able to run a half-court offense to win in the NCAA tournament or in the NBA playoffs. The easy fast breaks get taken away by good defensive teams. You have to learn how to play alternate styles in order to win.

That's not why the players stopped buying in.

 

[Alsacs]

He lost his recruiting pipeline in SoCal

UCLA was getting talent under Howland the whole time it didn’t dry up.

When Howland was fired he still had NBA talent coming in.
He left Alford a commitment from Zach LaVine and had Kyle Anderson and Jordan Adams as freshman on the team.

UCLA fired Howland because of alumni/Walton hating the playing style.
Their recruiting was fine.

 

[manleyzoo]

UCLA was getting talent under Howland the whole time it didn’t dry up.

When Howland was fired he still had NBA talent coming in.
He left Alford a commitment from Zach LaVine and had Kyle Anderson and Jordan Adams as freshman on the team.

UCLA fired Howland because of alumni/Walton hating the playing style.
Their recruiting was fine.

You're missing the reason.

 

[manleyzoo]

UCLA was getting talent under Howland the whole time it didn’t dry up.

When Howland was fired he still had NBA talent coming in.
He left Alford a commitment from Zach LaVine and had Kyle Anderson and Jordan Adams as freshman on the team.

UCLA fired Howland because of alumni/Walton hating the playing style.
Their recruiting was fine.

None of those three were from SoCal.

 

[BlackSquirrels]

Here's some coverage about the downfall of Howland from Sports Illustrated.

Not the UCLA Way

The moment things started to unravel for Ben Howland at UCLA

Among other things...

1. Howland was allowing a player by the name of Reeves Nelson to start brawls and intentionally injure teammates during practices.

2. AAU coaches in Southern California soured on Howland because he was pulling scholarships. (They also didn't like his style of play.) He had to hire an AAU coach from Atlanta to his staff to open another recruiting pipeline.

3. There's also an crazy anecdote about Howland wanting to take Russell Westbrook out of a game for not running the offense correctly. Instead of just subbing him out, he told a ref that Westbrook was wearing socks with the NBA logo on them, which was a uniform violation, so the ref should tell Westbrook he had to leave the game. The ref told Howland he had never heard of the rule and let the game continue.

 

[Alsacs]

None of those three were from SoCal.

Howland wasn’t fired because of recruiting.
Plus the other player from that 2013 was Shabazz Muhammad whom Adidas got to UCLA for Howland.

Howland was fired because of UCLA boosters/alumni led by Bill Walton didn’t like the guy.
He wasn’t fired because his teams weren’t making the tournament.

Walton has a lot of influence around that program.

 

[Alsacs]

Here's some coverage about the downfall of Howland from Sports Illustrated.

Not the UCLA Way

The moment things started to unravel for Ben Howland at UCLA

Among other things...

1. Howland was allowing a player by the name of Reeves Nelson to start brawls and intentionally injure teammates during practices.

2. AAU coaches in Southern California soured on Howland because he was pulling scholarships. (They also didn't like his style of play.) He had to hire an AAU coach from Atlanta to his staff to open another recruiting pipeline.

3. There's also an crazy anecdote about Howland wanting to take Russell Westbrook out of a game for not running the offense correctly. Instead of just subbing him out, he told a ref that Westbrook was wearing socks with the NBA logo on them, which was a uniform violation, so the ref should tell Westbrook he had to leave the game. The ref told Howland he had never heard of the rule and let the game continue.

It's time for Bill Walton to stop slamming Ben Howland

 

[IthacaMatt]

It's time for Bill Walton to stop slamming Ben Howland

That's quite an article. Thanks.

 

[manleyzoo]

It's time for Bill Walton to stop slamming Ben Howland

I'm aware of all of what was written. You're looking at it from afar. As I said, the main reason was SoCal AAU coaches didn't steer their players there anymore. They didn't like him. UCLA's culture was built on SoCal players. Booster money also dried up. It's always about following the money.

 

[SUOrangeSU]

Hop is gonna look good in orange again

 

[Alsacs]

I'm aware of all of what was written. You're looking at it from afar. As I said, the main reason was SoCal AAU coaches didn't steer their players there anymore. They didn't like him. UCLA's culture was built on SoCal players. Booster money also dried up.

I am sure your statements are true as well.
I just think if Walton wasn’t slamming Howland every game he would have gotten another year or two.

 

[manleyzoo]

I am sure your statements are true as well.
I just think if Walton wasn’t slamming Howland every game he would have gotten another year or two.

It certainly didn't help but I wasn't surprised by it at the time. Walton's a SoCal guy thru and thru.

 

[AZOrange]

I'm aware of all of what was written. You're looking at it from afar. As I said, the main reason was SoCal AAU coaches didn't steer their players there anymore. They didn't like him. UCLA's culture was built on SoCal players. Booster money also dried up. It's always about following the money.

If you lose your aau pipeline you’re done. They hate having their players recruited over...

 

[Alsacs]

If you lose your aau pipeline you’re done. They hate having their players recruited over...

Howland didn’t need the Southern. California AAU pipeline. He won the regular season Pac-12 title the year he was fired. He wasn’t fired for performance or for lack of talent.

He had a McDonald’s all-American recruit coming in Zack LaVine from Washington state.
He had 2 other first round picks on the roster left behind as Freshman in Jordan Adams and Kyle Anderson when he was fired.
Howland was getting talent. It wasn’t Southern California dominate. Only Shabazz Muhammad was from So. Cal.
The AAU of Southern California could be pissed at Howland but he was getting good enough talent to UCLA.

Walton and company hated his guts. That killed him around the UCLA program. If Walton didn’t destroy him their is no way they fire him after that 2013 season.