Mike Hopkins is our next coach...

[AlpharettaCuse]

"I think there's a sizeable penalty " you don't know. and if jimbo fisher was due 5 million then mike hopkins is closer to 100k.
and that estimate is due solely to the vast gap between the programs and the coaches you choose to reference.

"The coach-in-waiting contract is an interesting animal. The agreements are set up so coaches will be paid a “penalty”, usually in the seven figures, if the coach-in-waiting is not the head coach by a certain date. Often times, a coach-in-waiting must stay in that role for five years waiting for their chance. The benefits of entering into such an agreement are 1) the coach generally receives a nice raise; 2) the coach is provided with some security that he will be the next head coach; and 3) the coach will be paid a sizeable penalty if he is not named the head coach by a certain date. Universities also benefit from this arrangement because they are able to keep talented coaches on staff when they would have likely left the university for other employment."

Here you go my friend:

Is the Coach-in-Waiting Designation a Thing of the Past? | College Sports Law Blog - Barlow Garsek & Simon, LLP

 

[IthacaMatt]

He was also offered the USC job.

I don't think so. I think he interviewed for it, but they gave it to that guy from Florida Gulf Coast who had the hot run in the NCAA (and the hot wife). Andy something or other. I remember JB being critical of their selection (i.e. NOT choosing Mike) only after Mike didn't get the job. Prior to that, I recall JB being a little terse with the media about Mike interviewing, saying "Coach Hopkins will have to make his decision." Not "Mike", but "Coach Hopkins". The formality of it struck me at the time.

 

[tbonezone]

hop interviewed but didn't get the USC gig. but tell me this. if he has this CIW inked does he have to pay Syracuse to get out of it ?

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

hop interviewed but didn't get the USC gig. but tell me this. if he has this CIW inked does he have to pay Syracuse to get out of it ?

No. See Will Muschamp.

 

[tbonezone]

well then i guess these contracts aren't binding.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

well then i guess these contracts aren't binding.

Why wouldn't it be? Both sides agreed to it.

"Although these agreements can benefit both parties, it appears this approach may be a fade. What is the motivation to provide a coach with a substantial pay raise to be the coach-in-waiting when the coach will simply leave for a more expedient option a year or two after signing the coach-in-waiting contract? On the other side of the ball, why would a coach pass up the opportunity to lead another desirable program immediately to wait another five years for the same shot?"

It happens. Will Muchamp left because he didn't know when Mack Brown was going to retire. Florida offered him the same job at perhaps a better program. That contract was still binding, even if there was no penalty for Muschamp leaving. Hopkins may have left for USC, despite it not being on par with Syracuse, still a very good job. Or maybe not. Hop has decided to wait it out, and will be rewarded with head coaching job at a Top 1o program.

 

[tbonezone]

" Universities also benefit from this arrangement because they are able to keep talented coaches on staff when they would have likely left the university for other employment."
read this someplace.

 

[Bayside44]

I don't think so. I think he interviewed for it, but they gave it to that guy from Florida Gulf Coast who had the hot run in the NCAA (and the hot wife). Andy something or other. I remember JB being critical of their selection (i.e. NOT choosing Mike) only after Mike didn't get the job. Prior to that, I recall JB being a little terse with the media about Mike interviewing, saying "Coach Hopkins will have to make his decision." Not "Mike", but "Coach Hopkins". The formality of it struck me at the time.

Let's just say the USC AD acted in really bad faith and leave it at that.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

" Universities also benefit from this arrangement because they are able to keep talented coaches on staff when they would have likely left the university for other employment."
read this someplace.

It's worked for Syracuse. Otherwise, Hop was gone 10 years ago. Think about that. We've been to a couple of final fours, and had a couple of #1 teams in that span. Hopkins was a big part of that, certainly on the recruiting side. I'd say Syracuse made the right move.

 

[tbonezone]

so in your world we guarantee 5 million dollars to keep a coach who by contract is free to take another job at any time. RIGHT.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

so in your world we guarantee 5 million dollars to keep a coach who by contract is free to take another job at any time. RIGHT.

It's not my world. It's reality. See the examples I gave you on Muschamp and Fisher. And it's probably not $5 million, but half that. Syracuse is free to not honor the contract, but that's what the penalty is for. Read up on HCIW contracts if you're not clear on how they work and the purpose of them. Syracuse wouldn't have to pay a dime if they honored the deal, which is the intent to begin with.

 

[RF2044]

I qualify things this way because that's the reality. A new AD isn't coming in to change things up, especially when the basketball coach, chancellor and BOT have a plan in place. It just doesnt happen. Syracuse will give the reigns to Hopkins because he's earned it, has been loyal and they think he's the right person for the job. What has changed, except the new AD that has publicly stated (as he should) that's he's completely on board?

Like most of your posts in this thread, you present a kernel of truth surrounded by a bunch of false absolutes.

You've claimed that nothing has changed, when in fact a new AD coming in often signifies a seismic change in direction for an athletic department.

You've claimed that a new AD wouldn't come in to change things, when in fact there are unlimited examples of new ADs coming in and making hires to put their own stamp on a program.

You've claimed that a new AD wouldn't go against a chancellor / BOT, which is not only not true, but in fact it happens all the time.

You've claimed that a contract being in place in and of itself would prevent the new AD from going in a different direction, when in fact contracts are broken all of the time in sports, and coaches are often let go with time left on their contracts. Tbone has run you in circles with the circular logic of your position on this.

And you've claimed that buy out penalties would preclude the university from making a move, when in fact the penalties wouldn't be nearly as expensive as some believe.

Those are the things that I and others have been disputing, not whether Wildhack is supportive of the succession plan [edit: well, at least I'm not--others in this thread might be]. Instead of pretending that they aren't true, all you'd have to do is acknowledge them, but then say-- "Be that as it may, but in this case Wildhack is behind Hopkins." Discussion over.

Because again--I don't think anybody disputes that Wildhack will honor the deal, that Hop is in danger of not having the deal honored, etc. Those are certainly not things that I have suggested anywhere in this thread, or any other thread.



Edit: I apologize for mischaracterizing your position on the buy out. I overstated your position above, when it was other people making that claim, not you.

 

[iommi]

I don't think Hopkins was offered the USC job.

My bad. I do remember now.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Because again--I don't think anybody disputes that Wildhack will honor the deal, that Hop is in danger of not having the deal honored, etc.".

Exactly. New AD is on board, like I said. Nothing has changed, like I said. Thank you.

 

[RF2044]

Exactly. New AD is on board, like I said. Nothing has changed, like I said. Thank you.

I'll give you credit--you stubbornly stick to your guns even when shown that your take is wrong. Ignorance is bliss, as they say.

Not worth wasting time anymore--I'm going to go enjoy that sweet Pitt win.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

I'll give you credit--you stubbornly stick to your guns even when shown that your take is wrong.

Oh well, not worth it anymore--I'm going to go enjoy that sweet Pitt win.

But you just admitted I was spot on. So thanks for that. Gotta love people that keep arguing when they know they are dead wrong. lol. Here's the bottom line. Your new AD said he's looking forward to a smooth transition to Mike Hopkins as the new coach. So, according to him and the rest of the Syracuse University...nothing has changed.

 

[RF2044]

But you just admitted I was spot on. So thanks for that. Gotta love people that keep arguing when they know they are dead wrong. lol. Here's the bottom line. Your new AD said he's looking forward to a smooth transition to Mike Hopkins as the new coach. So, according to him and the rest of the Syracuse University...nothing has changed.

I'm not dead wrong. I never said the thing that YOU mistakenly keep arguing. Do me a favor and answer these questions:

Do new AD's come in and sometimes hire new coaches?

D0 contracts that are in place with coaches get broken at times?

Would our buy out penalty if Hopkins weren't hired be in the $2-5m range?

Would not honoring Hopkins's deal preclude other top notch candidates from considering SU?

Because those are the positions I've been correcting you about, not whether Wildhack supports Hopkins or not. Honestly, talking to you is like talking to a @#$ brick wall.

I look forward to your next post about whether Wildhack is going to hire Hopkins, while ignoring all of the above.

 

[tbonezone]

earth is flat. no sense continuing discussion.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

earth is flat. no sense continuing discussion.

Seriously

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Do new AD's come in and sometimes hire new coaches?

Sometimes yes. But not in cases where a HCIW deal is already done.

D0 contracts that are in place with coaches get broken at times?

Sometimes, again not in cases like ours.

Would our buy out penalty if Hopkins weren't hired be in the $2-5m range?

Probably.

Would not honoring Hopkins's deal preclude other top notch candidates from considering SU?

No, but would likely harm Syracuse's reputation and would cost Syracuse money.

Again, why would Syracuse look anywhere else when they have their top candidate locked up?

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

earth is flat. no sense continuing discussion.

Feel free to add something meaningful instead of moronic statements like contracts aren't valid.

 

[tbonezone]

well it's been fun but how about this closing . if you're the lawyer my client walks.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

well it's been fun but how about this. if you're the lawyer my client walks.

your client (Syracuse U.) is paying through the nose if they don't honor the deal. Open and shut case, hence the purpose of the contract.

 

[Bayside44]

This is an odd thread. Having inherited contracts signed from previous owners I now own those. Contracts get easily broken when one party doesn't have the ability to fight back. If Wildhack wants a national search he'd have to convince his bosses the buyout to Hop is worth it. Part of Mikes leverage is the buyout

 

[CousCuse]

Mike should convince JB to stay on indefinitely and both should get substantial raises.