Mike Hopkins is our next coach...

[Cusefan0307]

Posting this because a lot of posters believe it's not set in stone, but it is. It's not even worth debating.

Have the non Hopkins people thought of all the negatives associated with reneging on this deal? If so, what are they?

People in the know have suggested he will be much more open to change than Boeheim. I almost wish Boeheim would hand it over to Hop now, but he's probably afraid the losing will negatively impact Mike? He's been pretty instrumental in bringing in a lot of our talent over the past 15 years, it wasn't just Murphy and Weaver.

I'm not sold he's going to be as successful as Boeheim on the court, but I am rooting for him and everyone else should be here too, because that will be good for Syracuse if he succeeds.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I almost wish Boeheim would hand it over to Hop now,

This is where I am. Honestly, I wish Wildhack and Syverud had been at SU for a few years before the sanctions were handed down and could have shortened the transition period from almost 4 years to 1. Hop doesn't have control of the staff (as in who goes and who stays) and he is trying to recruit for guys who will eventually play on his team. So it must be difficult to get the players he wants and who can still play for JAB. It's just kind of messy.

 

[Alsacs]

Who is the odds on favorite to be lead assistant? That will be a huge deciding factor in his success.
I really hope it isn't a member of the current staff.
Also how close is Autry to getting a low D1 HC job.

 

[IthacaMatt]

This is where I am. Honestly, I wish Wildhack and Syverud had been at SU for a few years before the sanctions were handed down and could have shortened the transition period from almost 4 years to 1. Hop doesn't have control of the staff (as in who goes and who stays) and he is trying to recruit for guys who will eventually play on his team. So it must be difficult to get the players he wants and who can still play for JAB. It's just kind of messy.

I think this is going to happen at the end of the year. I just hope the old man gets his 7 wins out of this bunch to reach 1,000.

 

[RF2044]

I love Mike Hopkins, and appreciate all that he's done for the program as BOTH a player and a head coach. And I am encouraged by the reports that he's going to bring a different style of play on both sides of the ball -- because those are changes that I believe [M.O.O.] that the program needs to see implemented. He's patiently waited his turn, has passed up opportunities to leave, and deserves his chance.

What doesn't sit well with me, though, is that he is a totally unproven commodity. This is an elite program, that could and should attract elite candidates to replace a HOF coaching icon. We should not have somebody who has to learn on the job being handed the reins.

Nothing against Hopkins, but I'd love to see us conduct a national search and hire the best candidate. I agree that it probably wouldn't happen, though.

As for the ramifications of reneging on the deal, I don't think that there would be many, if any. We have a new AD. The old AD is the one who negotiated the succession plan. Things change--happens all the time in sports. So while I'd feel personally bad for Hopkins getting burned under those circumstances, I don't think that it would impact our ability to attract high quality, high major candidates for the job in the slightest if that were to occur.

 

[Alsacs]

I love Mike Hopkins, and appreciate all that he's done for the program as BOTH a player and a head coach. And I am encouraged by the reports that he's going to bring a different style of play on both sides of the ball -- because those are changes that I believe [M.O.O.] that the program needs to see implemented. He's patiently waited his turn, has passed up opportunities to leave, and deserves his chance.

What doesn't sit well with me, though, is that he is a totally unproven commodity. This is an elite program, that could and should attract elite candidates to replace a HOF coaching icon. We should not have somebody who has to learn on the job being handed the reins.

Nothing against Hopkins, but I'd love to see us conduct a national search and hire the best candidate. I agree that it probably wouldn't happen, though.

As for the ramifications of reneging on the deal, I don't think that there would be many, if any. We have a new AD. The old AD is the one who negotiated the succession plan. Things change--happens all the time in sports. So while I'd feel personally bad for Hopkins getting burned under those circumstances, I don't think that it would impact our ability to attract high quality, high major candidates for the job in the slightest if that were to occur.

Everything you just said should have applied to Gerry McNamara after the 2012 season.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I love Mike Hopkins, and appreciate all that he's done for the program as BOTH a player and a head coach. And I am encouraged by the reports that he's going to bring a different style of play on both sides of the ball -- because those are changes that I believe [M.O.O.] that the program needs to see implemented. He's patiently waited his turn, has passed up opportunities to leave, and deserves his chance.

What doesn't sit well with me, though, is that he is a totally unproven commodity. This is an elite program, that could and should attract elite candidates to replace a HOF coaching icon. We should not have somebody who has to learn on the job being handed the reins.

Nothing against Hopkins, but I'd love to see us conduct a national search and hire the best candidate. I agree that it probably wouldn't happen, though.

As for the ramifications of reneging on the deal, I don't think that there would be many, if any. We have a new AD. The old AD is the one who negotiated the succession plan. Things change--happens all the time in sports. So while I'd feel personally bad for Hopkins getting burned under those circumstances, I don't think that it would impact our ability to attract high quality, high major candidates for the job in the slightest if that were to occur.

While Wildhack didn't negotiate the succession plan, I am sure Syverud had to be quite involved and it wasn't just our former AD(s).
Wildhack is also an SU guy, so I think he would give Mike a bigger benefit of doubt than Coyle or Gross.

I actually think reneging on Hopkins would turn a lot of coaches off on the job because it would show you can't take Syracuse for their word and show what a cluster our Athletic Department continues to be.

I think it would be a PR disaster. Worse than anything we have seen so far(and we have had a lot of them), and not to mention I think it would alienate much of our history(not that everyone here cares about our history). That's just my two cents.

Anyway I believe Jake and Dasher when they say we won't go back on our word. If we were going to do a national search Hopkins would have been gone 10 years ago.

 

[RF2044]

Everything you just said should have applied to Gerry McNamara after the 2012 season.

No argument there. It is important to recognize that him getting "promoted" from grad assistant to assistant coach abruptly after Bernie Fine was terminated was a perfectly acceptable short term / stop gap strategy by JB and the program.

But you are right--due diligence should have been done after the 2012 season to bring in the best candidate to fill that vacancy.

 

[jordoo]

Open the checkbook and hire Hopkins a premier recruiter to be his number 1 assistant. Francis can be consulted on who that should be.

 

[RF2044]

While Wildhack didn't negotiate the succession plan, I am sure Syverud had to be quite involved and it wasn't just our former AD(s).

I actually think reneging on Hopkins would turn a lot of coaches off on the job because it would show you can't take Syracuse for their word.

I think it would be a PR disaster. Worse than anything we have seen so far(and we have had a lot of them), and not to mention I think it would alienate much of our history(not that everyone here cares about our history). That's just my two cents.

Anyway I believe Jake and Dasher when they say we won't go back on our word. If we were going to do a national search Hopkins would have been gone 10 years ago.

I think you're overstating that, due to the new AD. Nobody is going to hold it against a new AD if they go bring in their candidate, instead of getting handcuffed by a deal negotiated so long ago most people can't even remember when it was committed to paper.

Again, I love Hopkins. I will actively root for him to succeed as hard as I ever have for Boeheim. I'm not rooting for him NOT to get hired. But would I PREFER for SU to go get a national caliber, established coach to succeed Boeheim? Yes--I would.

We've seen numerous examples in recent years about how difficult it is to replace coaching icons in college basketball, and rarely does it go well for the successor. Sometimes, it takes shools two or three subsequent hires [UNC, Indiana, etc.] to eventually right the ship. We've also seen numerous examples of coaches hand picking their replacements [Georgetown with Esherick, Guthridge at UNC] and said replacement making things a lot worse.

I'm not suggesting that Hopkins WILL make things worse; I hope that everything we've heard about the changes he'd implement are true, and that he'd usher in a new era of tremendously successful Syracuse basketball. But the historical odds aren't in his favor.

As for not honoring that deal being a PR disaster--nah. It would garner about 5 minutes of attention on PTI, then be forgotten as soon as somebody writes something salacious on twitter, or Lebron stubs his toe at the grocery store which would quickly ascend to the top story.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think you're overstating that, due to the new AD. Nobody is going to hold it against a new AD if they go bring in their candidate, instead of getting handcuffed by a deal negotiated so long ago most people can't even remember when it was committed to paper.

Again, I love Hopkins. I will actively root for him to succeed as hard as I ever have for Boeheim. I'm not rooting for him NOT to get hired. But would I PREFER for SU to go get a national caliber, established coach to succeed Boeheim? Yes--I would.

We've seen numerous examples in recent years about how difficult it is to replace coaching icons in college basketball, and rarely does it go well for the successor. Sometimes, it takes shools two or three subsequent hires [UNC, Indiana, etc.] to eventually right the ship. We've also seen numerous examples of coaches hand picking their replacements [Georgetown with Esherick, Guthridge at UNC] and said replacement making things a lot worse.

I'm not suggesting that Hopkins WILL make things worse; I hope that everything we've heard about the changes he'd implement are true, and that he'd usher in a new era of tremendously successful Syracuse basketball. But the historical odds aren't in his favor.

As for not honoring that deal being a PR disaster--nah. It would garner about 5 minutes of attention on PTI, then be forgotten as soon as somebody writes something salacious on twitter, or Lebron stubs his toe at the grocery store which would quickly ascend to the top story.

It's also worked. Jimbo Fisher was Bobby Bowden's handpicked replacement. Dabo Sweeney was an interim coach. Those are two examples in football.

Jamie Dixon was awesome at Pitt for 10 years after Ben Howland. Same thing with Izzo and Heathcote. I think the success fail rate is closer to 50/50 than zero percent. Heck Boeheim was an assistant for Danforth.

I get it. It's scary. Mike has never coached before, but it's not a guarantee a National search would be successful either. You love Shaka Smart, and he's not succeeding at Texas right now. He's 26-20 his first year and a half at Texas.

 

[RF2044]

It's also worked. Jimbo Fisher was Bobby Bowden's handpicked replacement. Dabo Sweeney was an interim coach. Those are two examples in football.

Jamie Dixon was awesome at Pitt for 10 years after Ben Howland. Same thing with Izzo and Heathcote. I think the success fail rate is closer to 50/50 than zero percent. Heck Boeheim was an assistant for Danforth.

I get it. It's scary. Mike has never coached before, but it's not a guarantee a National search would be successful either. You love Shaka Smart, and he's not succeeding at Texas right now. He's 26-20 his first year and a half at Texas.

I love Shaka Smart, but that doesn't mean that he was the "best" candidate for our program. I just thought that his style of play, with the athletes he'd be able to recruit here, would be fun to watch and have the Dome rocking.

It is also possible that Smart just isn't a good cultural fit at UT, that his recruiting ties from the east coast might not have translated, etc. Maybe it is just a goofy Texas issue--as Charlie Strong flopped there too, after having a tremendously successful run at Louisville. Maybe there are cultural / race underpinnings with those two and the UT fanbase. :noidea:

But that example demonstrates why it is important to get a proven commodity, who can work through some of those issues. Because somebody who knows what they're doing and has a proven track record of success and won't be overwhelmed by the demands of the job [example--Dino Babers, following your football comparison] is going to have a much higher likelihood of succeeding than somebody who does not and has to learn on the job [example--Scott Shafer].

And yes, I am fully aware that JB has been ceding increasingly more responsibility of the management of the program to Hopkins over the years. So maybe his learning curve won't be as steep.

There are plenty of examples of career AC's getting their chance and failing, succeeding, or having mediocre careers. I don't draw any conclusions from a few cherry picked examples. I just believe that our chances of the program not dropping off would be higher bringing in a Jay Wright, a Sean Miller, a Gregg Marshall, and yes--a Shaka Smart than it would bringing in a generally unproven commodity with 9 games of coaching experience that didn't go well under his belt.

It is probably a moot point--as Jake / Dasher have said, Wildhack probably will honor the deal.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Point out flaws of other hotshot coaches is pointless. There are no perfect candidates to replace a retiring HOFer.

IMHO, I only want that they've done their due diligence and they have the best person for the job. And while JAB's input is important, I hope that's not the primary qualification considered.

 

[PhatOrange]

Everything RF stated is spot on so I wont rehash what he said. Just open up the check book for Jay Wright.

 

[br801]

Posting this because a lot of posters believe it's not set in stone, but it is. It's not even worth debating.

Have the non Hopkins people thought of all the negatives associated with reneging on this deal? If so, what are they?

People in the know have suggested he will be much more open to change than Boeheim. I almost wish Boeheim would hand it over to Hop now, but he's probably afraid the losing will negatively impact Mike? He's been pretty instrumental in bringing in a lot of our talent over the past 15 years, it wasn't just Murphy and Weaver.

I'm not sold he's going to be as successful as Boeheim on the court, but I am rooting for him and everyone else should be here too, because that will be good for Syracuse if he succeeds.

I agree with all that and understand your intention, but I'm afraid this thread will just deteriorate into the usual Hopkins-related sh!tstorm.

 

[RMH44]

I love Shaka Smart, but that doesn't mean that he was the "best" candidate for our program. I just thought that his style of play, with the athletes he'd be able to recruit here, would be fun to watch and have the Dome rocking.

It is also possible that Smart just isn't a good cultural fit at UT, that his recruiting ties from the east coast might not have translated, etc. Maybe it is just a goofy Texas issue--as Charlie Strong flopped there too, after having a tremendously successful run at Louisville. Maybe there are cultural / race underpinnings with those two and the UT fanbase. :noidea:

But that example demonstrates why it is important to get a proven commodity, who can work through some of those issues. Because somebody who knows what they're doing and has a proven track record of success and won't be overwhelmed by the demands of the job [example--Dino Babers, following your football comparison] is going to have a much higher likelihood of succeeding than somebody who does not and has to learn on the job [example--Scott Shafer].

And yes, I am fully aware that JB has been ceding increasingly more responsibility of the management of the program to Hopkins over the years. So maybe his learning curve won't be as steep.

There are plenty of examples of career AC's getting their chance and failing, succeeding, or having mediocre careers. I don't draw any conclusions from a few cherry picked examples. I just believe that our chances of the program not dropping off would be higher bringing in a Jay Wright, a Sean Miller, a Gregg Marshall, and yes--a Shaka Smart than it would bringing in a generally unproven commodity with 9 games of coaching experience that didn't go well under his belt.

It is probably a moot point--as Jake / Dasher have said, Wildhack probably will honor the deal.

This program needs energy...go get Buzz Williams.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I agree with all that and understand your intention, but I'm afraid this thread will just deteriorate into the usual Hopkins-related sh!tstorm.

The most annoying part of this is people actually think we are going to tear up the contract when all information provided proves the contrary. I'm not arguing whether Mike will be good or not. I don't know. It's just that Mike is the next coach.

 

[shandeezy7]

While Wildhack didn't negotiate the succession plan, I am sure Syverud had to be quite involved and it wasn't just our former AD(s).
Wildhack is also an SU guy, so I think he would give Mike a bigger benefit of doubt than Coyle or Gross.

I actually think reneging on Hopkins would turn a lot of coaches off on the job because it would show you can't take Syracuse for their word and show what a cluster our Athletic Department continues to be.

I think it would be a PR disaster. Worse than anything we have seen so far(and we have had a lot of them), and not to mention I think it would alienate much of our history(not that everyone here cares about our history). That's just my two cents.

Anyway I believe Jake and Dasher when they say we won't go back on our word. If we were going to do a national search Hopkins would have been gone 10 years ago.

I'm not all-in on Hopkins as the next coach, and I'm also not anti-Hopkins as the next coach. However, I think the bolded part of your statement is extreme hyperbole. It might be a controversial decision if it were to come to fruition, but in no way can I see it being as devastating to the program as you predict.

 

[tbonezone]

wasn't so long ago (sept 26 2015 in fact) i was viciously berated and even banned for a month for suggesting scott shafer wouldn't be back.
one current admin. here even posted :
"Everyone knows you don't like Shafer. But get used to him - barring an unforeseen collapse, you're going to have a long time to complain about him."

the lesson is you may think it's carved in stone. but never say never.

 

[shandeezy7]

The most annoying part of this is people actually think we are going to tear up the contract when all information provided proves the contrary. I'm not arguing whether Mike will be good or not. I don't know. It's just that Mike is the next coach.

I don't necessarily think that will happen, but to rule it out as a possibility is preposterous. There are zero absolutes in sports, especially when it comes to coaches and their contracts.

 

[cuseinseattle]

I agree with all that and understand your intention, but I'm afraid this thread will just deteriorate into the usual Hopkins-related sh!tstorm.

It already has

 

[KaiserUEO]

stop the nonsense about candidates will get turned off if they don't honor the Hop deal.

they could just fire him after 1 year and move on then. it doesn't matter.

the good of the program is all that matters...and real, experienced, successful coaches would be lining up to coach in front of 30k and in the ACC.

 

[RF2044]

It already has

And here I thought that this thread was a civil discussion of the topic espoused in the OP...

 

[Cusefan0307]

I don't necessarily think that will happen, but to rule it out as a possibility is preposterous. There are zero absolutes in sports, especially when it comes to coaches and their contracts.

Agree, but I wouldn't have started this thread if I thought we were NOT going to honor the contract. This isn't to debate whether he will be a good coach or not. I also think it's just as silly to assume that there would be no PR problems just as other people think it's silly that there would be PR problems if we ripped up the contract.

I think we need to accept that Hopkins will be the next coach and instead figure out(the AD of course) how the Athletic Department will help him succeed instead of throwing Jay Wrights name everday for the past 10 years in some thread because that is a pipe dream at this point. That is the point of this thread.

 

[Alsacs]

Our recruiting problems right now are going to really hurt Hopkins chances to succeed.
He won't get a honeymoon that most coaches get because he is for all intents the incumbent.
Boeheim should retire this year so Hop can recruit for 2018 which will be his make or break year.
If JB stays next year Hop honestly should only get 1 year. I am not giving him 2 years if we have to go thru this year's chit show and next year's obvious chitshow.