NBA 2017-2018 thread

[OttoinGrotto]

My sources, which are not great, feel that Ainge has pissed off a lot of GMs and is fairly unreasonable to work with.

 

[longislandcuse]

It's a terrible contract. the Hawks have a lot of cap space (i think??) so maybe they'll match but I dunno.

I hate to keep harping on this, but Dion really isn't any good. I get that he went to SU so there's an extra focus on him, but he's got a career true shooting of 49.1%. That's terrible. Even in his "breakout season", he was at 50.7%. There were 91 qualifying SG last year, Dion ranked 68th in true shooting. He's a decent playmaker, I will give him that, but he just doesn't shoot very well and he never has. It's hard to have a very good offense when a guy who shoots that poorly is taking up a lot of possessions.

Hardaway isn't any good either. He did have a pretty decent improvement last year, he can shoot, but from what I remember as a Knick, he's a truly terrible defender. This is just an awful contract.

I was curious, did some research. Dion had a usage rate of 26 and a true shooting of 50.7% last year. There were 5 players last year who had a true shooting below 52 and a usage over 25 last year. D'Angelo Russell, Wade, Zach Randolph, Reggie Jackson. Since Dion came into the league, there have been 44 such seasons; Dion accounts for 3 of those seasons. The only other guy to appear on the list 3 times is Kemba Walker; so hey, maybe there's hope.

Dions numbers were bad at the beginning of the year which brough them down in total. If the 30 game stretch where the Heat were dominant, mainly due to Dions play, is who Dion is now, he's a good player. Clearly he has to prove that over a longer stretch but there's a reason why the majority of Heat fans are ecstatic to have him back.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Dions numbers were bad at the beginning of the year which brough them down in total. If the 30 game stretch where the Heat were dominant, mainly due to Dions play, is who Dion is now, he's a good player. Clearly he has to prove that over a longer stretch but there's a reason why the majority of Heat fans are ecstatic to have him back.

Plus, there are things stats don't measure, like Dion's belief in his ability to get all up in Durant and bury a game winning shot.

That's part of what you pay for with Waiters, for better or for worse.

 

[Knicks411]

Smart terrible defender?
You mean Isaiah right?

Smart is a pretty good defender. He can guard the 1-4 if necessary. He isn't a terrible defender. He isn't Avery Bradley but also Smart won't cost as much Next year. Smart will be a RFA and Bradley will be a UFA and have a longer experience

Losing Bradley sucks no doubt but the team wasn't going to pay him 24-25 million next year and so they got a PF. Plus Avery gets hurt a lot.
He has only played more than 70 games in a season 2 times in 7 years.

He averages 63 games per year. So while it sucks to lose him his durability is a factor.

Yeah I don't think I said Smart is a terrible defender, if I did, I didn't mean it. He's a terrible shooter. Isaiah is a terrible defender.

Fair points on durability, and like I said, I'm sure they were gonna let him walk next summer, but they should be trying to win next year. Bradley helps them a lot more with that than Smart, IMO at least.

 

[Knicks411]

Dions numbers were bad at the beginning of the year which brough them down in total. If the 30 game stretch where the Heat were dominant, mainly due to Dions play, is who Dion is now, he's a good player. Clearly he has to prove that over a longer stretch but there's a reason why the majority of Heat fans are ecstatic to have him back.

I think my reply got eaten, so I'm gonna respost, if not, ignore

Agree if Dion plays like he does in that good stretch he's a good player, but since the end result of last season was the same numbers he always has, you can understand why I'm skeptical that stretch represents an actual leap in level of play

 

[Alsacs]

My sources, which are not great, feel that Ainge has pissed off a lot of GMs and is fairly unreasonable to work with.

GMs hate him because he has to win every deal.

He isn't unreasonable at all. He does what is the best interest of his team.

He helped the Pistons get Rasheed Wallace in 2004. He helped the Cavs fit cap space to LeBron James in 2014. Those moves swung championships.

He isn't hard to work with at all. He fleeced Phoenix for Isaiah Thomas.
He fleeced Dallas for Jae Crowder.
He fleeced Brooklyn for 2 top 3 draft picks.

That would make a lot of enemies right there.
He traded the first pick for the third pick pretty easily.

He had to move a player to fit Hayward in and got a decent piece back for the lack of leverage he had.

Ainge is a top 3 GM IMO. He has completely rebuild the Celtics faster than you should be able to without getting a transformative player in the draft.

 

[KaiserUEO]

I am waiting to see Dennis Smith Jr and Malik Monk duke it our for ROY honors while you brush up on your French.

sadly, my French has been fine since "le dunk de la mort"...

 

[Knicks411]

I love that "fleece" is a word that is only used in the context of sports deals

I think Ainge in general has done a very solid job. I think this was a poor move.

 

[Alsacs]

I love that "fleece" is a word that is only used in the context of sports deals

I think Ainge in general has done a very solid job. I think this was a poor move.

I guess.

I look at the fact he determined he didn't want to lose a good player for nothing. So he got back a decent rotation player who could help with guarding LeBron James.

He clearly lost this deal no doubt. I just don't think he had any leverage because he had too move 1 player to fit Hayward in.

 

[Knicks411]

I guess.

I look at the fact he determined he didn't want to lose a good player for nothing. So he got back a decent rotation player who could help with guarding LeBron James.

He clearly lost this deal no doubt. I just don't think he had any leverage because he had too move 1 player to fit Hayward in.

I'm just not convinced he couldn't have traded Marcus Smart into someone's cap space or something like that.

 

[kirbivore]

My sources, which are not great, feel that Ainge has pissed off a lot of GMs and is fairly unreasonable to work with.

sounds like some of my fantasy league opponents

 

[Alsacs]

sounds like some of my fantasy league opponents

Looking to screw you.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

GMs hate him because he has to win every deal.

He isn't unreasonable at all. He does what is the best interest of his team.

He helped the Pistons get Rasheed Wallace in 2004. He helped the Cavs fit cap space to LeBron James in 2014. Those moves swung championships.

He isn't hard to work with at all. He fleeced Phoenix for Isaiah Thomas.
He fleeced Dallas for Jae Crowder.
He fleeced Brooklyn for 2 top 3 draft picks.

That would make a lot of enemies right there.
He traded the first pick for the third pick pretty easily.

He had to move a player to fit Hayward in and got a decent piece back for the lack of leverage he had.

Ainge is a top 3 GM IMO. He has completely rebuild the Celtics faster than you should be able to without getting a transformative player in the draft.

Oh, I think he's an incredible GM. No GM will win every time, or draft the right guy, sign the right free agent. Ainge does it more than most.

I don't think GMs have difficulty working with him and are bothered by him because he's been successful. I think he's probably actually difficult to work with. Now, that doesn't prevent him from doing a good job, and being easy to work with isn't necessarily a virtue for a GM. But I think Ainge does need to be a little careful because he's going to need to do a lot of tinkering and he'll need people that play ball with him.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Hayward and Jaylen Brown will play SG.
Isaiah is more of SG anyway. Rozier and Smart can be PGs.

You really think GH signed that contract to play out of position. Plus if they keep Crowder how are the dynamics going to be with him and Hayward.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

You really think GH signed that contract to play out of position. Plus if they keep Crowder how are the dynamics going to be with him and Hayward.

Yeah, there's an interesting subplot here.

If your backcourt is Hayward and Thomas, Hayward is guarding the best opponent in the backcourt because Thomas is not going to keep up.

 

[Knicks411]

Yeah, there's an interesting subplot here.

If your backcourt is Hayward and Thomas, Hayward is guarding the best opponent in the backcourt because Thomas is not going to keep up.

Hayward as the 2 full time doesn't seem tenable at all.

Even a guy like Jaylen Brown. Is he chasing guards around all the time? Who is checking Kyrie?

 

[Alsacs]

Hayward as the 2 full time doesn't seem tenable at all.

Even a guy like Jaylen Brown. Is he chasing guards around all the time? Who is checking Kyrie?

Rozier and Smart.

Boston is still going after people. I don't want Jamal Crawford but he is being discussed. If Kevin Prichard had waited 7 days he likely gets a golden chip like the Lakers/Kings pick and Bradley/Crowder, and another pick for Paul George.

 

[Knicks411]

Rozier and Smart.

Boston is still going after people. I don't want Jamal Crawford but he is being discussed. If Kevin Prichard had waited 7 days he likely gets a golden chip like the Lakers/Kings pick and Bradley/Crowder, and another pick for Paul George.

Right, so if you're playing Rozier/Smart a lot, I think that's a serious downgrade from Bradley.

I've done some reading on the deal, I seem to be the hardest one out of anyone that I've read on it. So I dunno, maybe I'm off base here.

 

[Alsacs]

You really think GH signed that contract to play out of position. Plus if they keep Crowder how are the dynamics going to be with him and Hayward.

Gordon Hayward took less money from Boston that he could have gotten from Utah because he wanted to play more relevant basketball games.
Utah was never going to compete with the Western powers. Hayward wants to win so he went to a spot that has a good present, and future pieces to be competitive.

Seems like your last sentence is speculation. Crowder can't do anything to force a trade. He is under contract for 3 more years.

He will play the position where he can win as he will trust his coach will put him in a spot to succeed.

 

[Alsacs]

Right, so if you're playing Rozier/Smart a lot, I think that's a serious downgrade from Bradley.

I've done some reading on the deal, I seem to be the hardest one out of anyone that I've read on it. So I dunno, maybe I'm off base here.

Ainge had no leverage and people are realizing Ainge took the trade that gave him something for Bradley instead of getting nothing a year from now.
If Bradley was the difference between winning the east and being the 2nd best he would keep him.

Bradley is good but isn't an all star.

 

[Knicks411]

Ainge had no leverage and people are realizing Ainge took the trade that gave him something for Bradley instead of getting nothing a year from now.
If Bradley was the difference between winning the east and being the 2nd best he would keep him.

Bradley is good but isn't an all star.

It's totally possible I'm overrating him. I would have prioritized him over Smart, but I could be an idiot.

 

[SUintheVille]

It's totally possible I'm overrating him. I would have prioritized him over Smart, but I could be an idiot.

Bradley has improved every year. Not sure if he is a "star" but getting pretty close. Smart sometimes drives me a little crazy but he is certainly improving too roughly in the same trajectory as Bradley has, only a year or 2 behind him. Rozier has a lot of potential, decent/improving shooter and brings D, not like Avery does, but Terry has the passion for D which is where it starts. I would have preferred Celtics keep Bradley vs. Smart, but business being business, Ainge was "smart" in getting Morris now vs. little or nothing next summer. They couldn't give big deals to IT and Bradley next summer. Will be interesting to see if they keep Crowder now with Morris, Horford, and that new German dude they signed (plus Tatum in a year or 2 will be good). Celtics need a really good rebounder.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Gordon Hayward took less money from Boston that he could have gotten from Utah because he wanted to play more relevant basketball games.

I think it's actually the opposite of that. I think he wanted to play in less relevant games. He saw the slim pickings in the East, looked at the blood bath in the West, saw the completely clear path to being a perennial all-star (this matters to him), and joined up with a coach he trusted.

 

[Trueblue25]

Avery's going to be a fringe all star when all's said and done if he can stay healthy imo.

 

[Briancuse]

Knicks sign Tim Hardaway Jr. to 4 year 71 million offer sheet.

I wouldn't match if I were the Hawks.

If I were the Hawks I would laugh and laugh and keep laughing, what a joke, how do you make marginal players an offer like this when you dont even have a bball guy in place?