NBA 2017-2018 thread

[MikeSU02]

I don't know. Kyrie is a really bad defensive player and he's a pretty indifferent passer. No question, the dude can get buckets like very few. And that's probably the single most important skill to have. And the rest of the east is pretty bad. But I don't think having Lowry or Wall above him is a crazy call.

Kyle Lowry, for instance, doesn't play with the best player on the planet, and he had a 62% true shooting last year, compared to 58% for Kyrie.

I don't think Kyrie is in the elite tier with Bron, KD, Steph, Kawhi, etc.

I think he's a notch below.

Kyrie's issues are three fold (imo):
- effort on the defensive end
- getting in shape
- staying healthy

If James Harden can become an adequate defender, I believe Kyrie can. I think having Stevens as his coach will be really beneficial to him on that end.

I'm not saying Wall or Lowry aren't great ball players. But they haven't been measured going up against the Warriors or trying to perform up to the level of a teammate like LeBron. It's been Finals or bust for these guys for the last three years. Wall and Lowry don't suit up with that type of pressure each night.

We'll see. I do think Kyrie will showcase a level of passing that hasn't been shown before with his situation in Boston.

 

[Knicks411]

I really don't think it's ridiculous to say I'd rather have Lowry or Wall over Kyrie for next season.

I do take the points on Kyrie getting it done in the playoffs at the highest level. You do need to put some value on that. Especially when you consider Lowry hasn't been so great in the playoffs.

Here's some good perspective on Kyrie; Brogdon, who was a rookie this year, was being talked about in the trade for Kyrie. Brogdon was born December 1992. Kyrie was born March 1992. Dude is still really young

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I honestly can't believe people would take Lowery over Kyrie. That's insane, playoff performance alone would take Kyrie to another level than Lowery.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I honestly can't believe people would take Lowery over Kyrie. That's insane, playoff performance alone would take Kyrie to another level than Lowery.

Lowery has had more success as the guy on his team than Irving has.

Irving may be a great numbers bad team guy without LeBron. We'll find out soon enough.

 

[Melancer46]

I mean, the east is so bad, but yeah, I think Wall is better. Giannis is way better. For just next season, I'd probably take Lowry.

But jesus, the east is terrible. Joel Embiid is a possible I guess.

Yeah, I'd definitely say Lowry is better than Kyrie right now. Obviously long-term you prefer Kyrie since Lowry is pretty old already though.

And also, obviously we're all splitting hairs here. Kyrie is a really great talent. I know a lot of the advanced stat guys don't believe he's a star at all, but I think the vast majority of us would agree that he is. Even if he's not at Wall/Lowry's level right now, he's still really freaking good.

The guys that are arguably the same tier or better than Kyrie in the East are:

LeBron (duh)
Giannis (duh)
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Healthy Isaiah
Gordon Hayward?
Demar Derozen? (I would personally say no to this one, but some people like him a lot more than I do)

 

[Alsacs]

ESPN has Kyrie above both Lowry and Wall.

#NBArank: Karl-Anthony Towns, Blake Griffin knocking on door to top 10

 

[Melancer46]

ESPN has Kyrie above both Lowry and Wall.

#NBArank: Karl-Anthony Towns, Blake Griffin knocking on door to top 10

I'm certain that Wall will be above Kyrie when they release this year's rankings. Lowry might not be due to his playoff struggles this year, but he was undoubtedly better in the regular season at least.

 

[Knicks411]

Yeah, I'd definitely say Lowry is better than Kyrie right now. Obviously long-term you prefer Kyrie since Lowry is pretty old already though.

And also, obviously we're all splitting hairs here. Kyrie is a really great talent. I know a lot of the advanced stat guys don't believe he's a star at all, but I think the vast majority of us would agree that he is. Even if he's not at Wall/Lowry's level right now, he's still really freaking good.

The guys that are arguably the same tier or better than Kyrie in the East are:

LeBron (duh)
Giannis (duh)
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Healthy Isaiah
Gordon Hayward?
Demar Derozen? (I would personally say no to this one, but some people like him a lot more than I do)

Heyward is close, I kinda forgot he's in the East.

Derozan I agree with you on.

ESPN has Kyrie above both Lowry and Wall.

#NBArank: Karl-Anthony Towns, Blake Griffin knocking on door to top 10

That's from last November, it also has Kyrie above Freak.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

I don't think Kyrie is in the elite tier with Bron, KD, Steph, Kawhi, etc.

I think he's a notch below.

Kyrie's issues are three fold (imo):
- effort on the defensive end
- getting in shape
- staying healthy

If James Harden can become an adequate defender, I believe Kyrie can. I think having Stevens as his coach will be really beneficial to him on that end.

I'm not saying Wall or Lowry aren't great ball players. But they haven't been measured going up against the Warriors or trying to perform up to the level of a teammate like LeBron. It's been Finals or bust for these guys for the last three years. Wall and Lowry don't suit up with that type of pressure each night.

We'll see. I do think Kyrie will showcase a level of passing that hasn't been shown before with his situation in Boston.

When he's had to play D, particularly deep into the playoffs, Kyrie can be pretty solid. But those are spurts at the primest of prime times.

As for him becoming more of a passer in Boston, he's highly capable, but he's Kyrie, Uncle Drew. Scoring and being the man -- like his hero Kobe (must be a "K" thing) -- is paramount to him. I think he wants to out-Russ Russ.

But if he does somehow discover the beauty of distributing, too, look out. Fire up the stogies.

 

[Alsacs]

Boston reporters are saying Isaiah is out till February.

I am shocked if that is true.
If he is out that long they should have voided the deal.

 

[SUintheVille]

Boston reporters are saying Isaiah is out till February.

I am shocked if that is true.
If he is out that long they should have voided the deal.

But wasn't it really the Nets pick and Crowder that the Cavs wanted more than IT? If IT comes back even in Feb and can get in shape, he'll still give the Cavs a boost toward/by playoff time. Hoping the Celts can take them though this time.

 

[SUintheVille]

I think Kyrie on Celtics will be different than Kyrie on Cavs. Big reason will be Brad Stevens and getting Kyrie to buy into team concept and get better at D, while still giving him free reign to run the team and get his own, while being a better facilitator at the same time. It's a whole new atmosphere and opportunity and I think Kyrie thrives, esp. with Horford and Hayward by his side, not LeBron.

 

[MikeSU02]

Boston reporters are saying Isaiah is out till February.

I am shocked if that is true.
If he is out that long they should have voided the deal.

Why? Cavs can coast and get the 8 seed and still walk to the Finals.

They need IT to be in shape and ready for the playoffs. Everything else is cream cheese.

They still banked that Bklyn pick.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Why? Cavs can coast and get the 8 seed and still walk to the Finals.

They need IT to be in shape and ready for the playoffs. Everything else is cream cheese.

They still banked that Bklyn pick.

IT's the least-important part of the trade. You're right, all's hunky dory as long as he's good to go by the season that matters most -- the post-season.

Crowder's potentially a great addition. And the Cavs may take that Brooklyn pick and use it this year for some blockbuster deal.

I came to love Kyrie's game -- the offensive one -- watching him play 99% of the Cavs games these past three seasons and I'm sorry to see him go, but while he has all the potential to be a great scorer and distributor, I'm not so sure the distributor part is gonna come overnight, if ever, unless, by playing with LeBron, he saw you can be the alpha dogg. a scorer and and a playmaker. Kyrie's defense is a topic for another day.

Stats being what they may, which may not be much, these are interesting numbers from Kyrie's three seasons with LBJ, Kevin Love, et al.

This from Cleveland sportswriter Terry Pluto, a pretty darn good old school newspaperman still in the biz.

In the five games where Love played and Irving sat last season, Love averaged 23.2 points and 12.0 rebounds.


In the last three years, when James and Love have played together when Irving sat, the Cavs are 25-10.


It's 24-7 in the last two seasons.


This is not claiming the Cavs are a better team without Irving.


But it is to point out how James and Love blended well together.


The record in the last three seasons in games where James sat but Irving and Love played?


The Cavs were 3-13.

My point is the Cavs can build a team around James and Love and still win a lot of games.


Cleveland Cavaliers: Kevin Love, Jae Crowder, Q deal, Terry's Talkin' -- Terry Pluto

 

[kirbivore]

Why? Cavs can coast and get the 8 seed and still walk to the Finals.

They need IT to be in shape and ready for the playoffs. Everything else is cream cheese.

 

[Melancer46]

I still kinda think Crowder is gonna end up being a relatively unvaluable part of the trade for Cleveland. It's going to be so awkward just trying to get him on the court at the same time as LeBron and Love. Love can't play center and LeBron/Crowder can't really play SG. Someone will be out of position at all times if they try to play them together.

The Brooklyn pick is ultimately the trump card though.

 

[OrangeDW]

I honestly can't believe people would take Lowery over Kyrie. That's insane, playoff performance alone would take Kyrie to another level than Lowery.

Honestly think it depends on the fit and what the team needs. They're different players with different games. Ultimately I'd put both of them in the 20-30 range of players. All stars but not All NBA guys.

 

[OrangeDW]

Yeah, I'd definitely say Lowry is better than Kyrie right now. Obviously long-term you prefer Kyrie since Lowry is pretty old already though.

And also, obviously we're all splitting hairs here. Kyrie is a really great talent. I know a lot of the advanced stat guys don't believe he's a star at all, but I think the vast majority of us would agree that he is. Even if he's not at Wall/Lowry's level right now, he's still really freaking good.

The guys that are arguably the same tier or better than Kyrie in the East are:

LeBron (duh)
Giannis (duh)
John Wall
Kyle Lowry
Healthy Isaiah
Gordon Hayward?
Demar Derozen? (I would personally say no to this one, but some people like him a lot more than I do)

I still think Carmelo is better than Derozen and Hayward. But yeah, with Butler and George gone the East is really hurting. Hopefully Melo will be out soon too.

 

[MikeSU02]

The Vince Lombardi of movie coaches, for sure.

 

[MikeSU02]

I still kinda think Crowder is gonna end up being a relatively unvaluable part of the trade for Cleveland. It's going to be so awkward just trying to get him on the court at the same time as LeBron and Love. Love can't play center and LeBron/Crowder can't really play SG. Someone will be out of position at all times if they try to play them together.

The Brooklyn pick is ultimately the trump card though.

Depending on who they are playing, I think Crowder can still be valuable. Especially if the second unit gets dinged up or Bron needs to take a week off.

But I agree with your larger point.

 

[MikeSU02]

IT's the least-important part of the trade. You're right, all's hunky dory as long as he's good to go by the season that matters most -- the post-season.

Crowder's potentially a great addition. And the Cavs may take that Brooklyn pick and use it this year for some blockbuster deal.

I came to love Kyrie's game -- the offensive one -- watching him play 99% of the Cavs games these past three seasons and I'm sorry to see him go, but while he has all the potential to be a great scorer and distributor, I'm not so sure the distributor part is gonna come overnight, if ever, unless, by playing with LeBron, he saw you can be the alpha dogg. a scorer and and a playmaker. Kyrie's defense is a topic for another day.

Stats being what they may, which may not be much, these are interesting numbers from Kyrie's three seasons with LBJ, Kevin Love, et al.

This from Cleveland sportswriter Terry Pluto, a pretty darn good old school newspaperman still in the biz.

In the five games where Love played and Irving sat last season, Love averaged 23.2 points and 12.0 rebounds.


In the last three years, when James and Love have played together when Irving sat, the Cavs are 25-10.


It's 24-7 in the last two seasons.


This is not claiming the Cavs are a better team without Irving.


But it is to point out how James and Love blended well together.


The record in the last three seasons in games where James sat but Irving and Love played?


The Cavs were 3-13.

My point is the Cavs can build a team around James and Love and still win a lot of games.


Cleveland Cavaliers: Kevin Love, Jae Crowder, Q deal, Terry's Talkin' -- Terry Pluto

I think Kevin Love has tried and done pretty well adapting to his role on CLE. I think you'll see his stats go up significantly. His passing is really amazing and I think it will be featured more in the offense (I think you'll see a greater percentage of CLE's buckets be assisted this year, overall).

 

[Alsacs]

Depending on who they are playing, I think Crowder can still be valuable. Especially if the second unit gets dinged up or Bron needs to take a week off.

But I agree with your larger point.

Yeah Crowder is a nice player who probably helps them not have to play LeBron 41 MPG in the regular season.

He won't play with Love/LeBron that much on the court or the Cavs will be tiny on the floor.

Crowder is one of those guys who is was underrated and then imo has become a little overrated by the Boston fanbase. He is a great 6th man but as a starter he is slightly above average.

His contract is makes him more valuable but I see him as a Robert Horry player on a championship team.

 

[MSOrange]

Watch: McCollum roasts ex-teammate Matthews in 'Law & Order' parody

 

[Knicks411]

I still kinda think Crowder is gonna end up being a relatively unvaluable part of the trade for Cleveland. It's going to be so awkward just trying to get him on the court at the same time as LeBron and Love. Love can't play center and LeBron/Crowder can't really play SG. Someone will be out of position at all times if they try to play them together.

The Brooklyn pick is ultimately the trump card though.

Is it a potential hot take to say if they play the Warriors Crowder gets more minutes than Love?

 

[Alsacs]

Michael Gbinije just signed with Warriors.

Good for him.