NBA 2018-2019

[chugg21]

I know people on this board love him but the genius of Danny Ainge's plan still is eluding me.

I'm in no way whatsoever a Celtics fan but I thought they had the brightest future in the league. Appeared that they were setup for years and Kyrie being a malcontent has more or less blown it all up. Couldn't really plan for that part I guess. He had young stars, veteran stars and all of the trade assets needed to trade for anyone that became available. All of that is worthless now that it appears Kyrie is leaving for nothing. That stopped them from being a realistic AD destination since without Kyrie it would likely be a 1 year rental.

 

[MikeSU02]

Ainge screwed up last year with Kawhi but beyond that he has done a great job.
The plan just fell apart because Kyrie is a little crazy and killed the team chemistry this year and he chose his right to leave.
Horford leaving isn’t a problem.
He is a good 3rd player but not at that money.
Ainge is a great trader and he did bring in Horford as a FA 3 years ago and it’s not his fault Heyward broke his leg.

Celtics still have talent and while they aren’t a championship contender they aren’t garbage. They 19 milllion in cap space right now and if Morris/Rozier don’t resign that cap space goes up.

Ainge valuing AD over Kawhi is the only thing that matters right now. It's not a terrible bet, but with Kawhi that team likely wins the title. Kawhi would have put Kyrie in his place.

And btw, it's def not just the Cs that blew the Kawhi rental, but Ainge is in the spotlight right now.

I'll say it again as well, I've consistently thought Tatum was overrated and Jaylen was underrated and I still think that.

I also think Hayward will be much better and borderline all star by 30 games into this season.

 

[Alsacs]

Ainge valuing AD over Kawhi is the only thing that matters right now. It's not a terrible bet, but with Kawhi that team likely wins the title. Kawhi would have put Kyrie in his place.

And btw, it's def not just the Cs that blew the Kawhi rental, but Ainge is in the spotlight right now.

I'll say it again as well, I've consistently thought Tatum was overrated and Jaylen was underrated and I still think that.

I also think Hayward will be much better and borderline all star by 30 games into this season.

I personally don’t want to trade Heyward because of what you said.
Everything else I agree with you.
There is no doubt Kyrie stunted Brown last year. Kyrie hated Brown and the veteran of the Boston beat Steve Bullipet is saying Kyrie treated Brown and Tatum like LeBron treated Kyrie in Cleveland and those guys hated him.
The Kyrie and Tatum relationship wasn’t as close as it was perceived.

Ainge was just obsessed with Davis and if Kyrie didn’t make it obvious he wants out the Celtics would have traded for Davis. Kyrie killed that.

 

[MikeSU02]

I personally don’t want to trade Heyward because of what you said.
Everything else I agree with you.
There is no doubt Kyrie stunted Brown last year. Kyrie hated Brown and the veteran of the Boston beat Steve Bullipet is saying Kyrie treated Brown and Tatum like LeBron treated Kyrie in Cleveland and those guys hated him.
The Kyrie and Tatum relationship wasn’t as close as it was perceived.

Ainge was just obsessed with Davis and if Kyrie didn’t make it obvious he wants out the Celtics would have traded for Davis. Kyrie killed that.

Yeah, and the thing is, people were arguing AD was the best player in the league last year and Kawhi had played nine games, it's not exactly like it was a bad bet.

 

[Horn88]

I think Ainge did a great job of stockpiling assets then he passed on a Paul George deal, passed on trying to get Jimmy, passed on Kawhi then basically was in a lose-lose situation by the time the guy he's always really wanted in AD finally came on the board.

I don't think either of Tatum or Brown will ever be as good as any of the the four guys that they wouldn't trade for because they didn't want to part with one of those two. So the new long term plan of building around Tatum and Brown I don't really see that as a path to being a serious contender for a championship.

I think Brown is good but don't think he'll ever become an all star. Tatum I think will potentially be an all star at some point but I don't think he'll ever be an all-nba guy. And after how the past lottery order shook out I don't know what the realistic outlook is on that Memphis pick in terms of what that yields.

 

[Melancer46]

Horford to the Bucks is an upgrade from Lopez.
Horford can shoot well and his defense is where his value truly comes.
His offense isn’t worthy of 25+ million but he is basically the Eastern conference version of Draymond Green minus the annoying/ borderline dirty antics.

George Hill is a guy I would be all over if I were a contender.

I'm not entirely sure I agree tbh. Horford was more switchable than Lopez this year, but he's entering his Age 33 season; I don't think it's a safe bet that remains as switchable as he has been in the past. Lopez is a better interior defender, more impactful shooter, and probably better inside scorer as well. If Horford can still hold his own on switches, he might be an upgrade overall but I'm not sure how long we can really depend on that from him.

And Brook probably gets around $10ish million per year if I had to guess or at least a starting salary of $10 million. Milwaukee could theoretically make those moves I mentioned and then sign Brook + another piece like a Bogdanovic, Jeremy Lamb, Marcus Morris, Pat Beverley, etc.

I think I might lean towards the latter idea but I'm not really sure.

Regarding George Hill, I'll miss him if he ends up being gone. He'll certainly be waived IMO; the question is whether anyone else claims him and if not, if we can convince him to come back on a minimum type deal. I think the remarkable playoff run he had this season overstates the impact he has on this team moving forwards. I wouldn't be surprised if DiVincenzo can completely replace Hill's production next season.

 

[Cusefan0307]

 

[Melancer46]

Houston Chronicle reporting that the Rockets are expected to aggressively pursue Jimmy Butler in free agency

 

[Alsacs]

I think Ainge did a great job of stockpiling assets then he passed on a Paul George deal, passed on trying to get Jimmy, passed on Kawhi then basically was in a lose-lose situation by the time the guy he's always really wanted in AD finally came on the board.

I don't think either of Tatum or Brown will ever be as good as any of the the four guys that they wouldn't trade for because they didn't want to part with one of those two. So the new long term plan of building around Tatum and Brown I don't really see that as a path to being a serious contender for a championship.

I think Brown is good but don't think he'll ever become an all star. Tatum I think will potentially be an all star at some point but I don't think he'll ever be an all-nba guy. And after how the past lottery order shook out I don't know what the realistic outlook is on that Memphis pick in terms of what that yields.

Paul George wanted to be a Laker.
Ainge would have traded the Jaylen Brown pick for George but the Pacers wanted more from Boston.

Celtics fans didn’t want Jimmy Butler for the Tatum pick, Crowder and the Sexton pick.

Ainge screwed up Kawhi. He didn’t want to give up Jaylen Brown and the Sacramento pick.

Ainge is a good GM.

 

[Alsacs]

The NBA draft has become the MLB draft. The NFL draft is the only one where more than the top 5 has impact players on teams.

NBA draft has become all underdeveloped players who are all potential and upside after the top of the draft.

College basketball isn’t developing these players because they don’t stay like they do in football or baseball.
Now baseball allows kids to enter the draft out of HS which thankfully the NBA is going to do again in 2022.
If the NBA just did the MLB rule but changed it to 2 years not 3 then these players would become more coachable as freshman and develop since they wouldn’t be one and done.
Let the studs go out of HS.

 

[Horn88]

Paul George wanted to be a Laker.
Ainge would have traded the Jaylen Brown pick for George but the Pacers wanted more from Boston.

Celtics fans didn’t want Jimmy Butler for the Tatum pick, Crowder and the s e xton pick.

Ainge screwed up Kawhi. He didn’t want to give up Jaylen Brown and the Sacramento pick.

Ainge is a good GM.

Well the Pacers rightfully should have wanted more from Boston for Paul George than a draft pick that yielded a player who isn't close to Paul George. Boston could have beat the Pacers offer and George ended up staying in OKC so it isn't like him leaving was a done deal.

Jimmy was traded to Minnesota for Lavine, Dunn and the 7 pick and Minnesota got Jimmy and the 16. Then he was traded to Philly for Covington, Saric, Bayless and a 2022 2nd rounder. Ainge could have easily beaten both of those packages if he wanted.

Kawhi he screwed up like you said.

He had the ammo to climb into the next tier and take his a shot at a championship and instead stood pat and overvalued his own assets. He's a good GM but Celtics fans and some of the media were propping him up to be a genius and so much smarter than everybody for the past few years so I think that's why he's catching so much heat now.

 

[Trueblue25]

I’d prefer Kawhi over AD and also Butler over Tatum + a first. But im not a gm.

I do think brown, tatum and heyward is a very solid core to build around still though. Wouldn’t mind landing a d. Green or Beverly to complement Marcus Smarts grit and inability to shoot.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Well the Pacers rightfully should have wanted more from Boston for Paul George than a draft pick that yielded a player who isn't close to Paul George. Boston could have beat the Pacers offer and George ended up staying in OKC so it isn't like him leaving was a done deal.

Jimmy was traded to Minnesota for Lavine, Dunn and the 7 pick and Minnesota got Jimmy and the 16. Then he was traded to Philly for Covington, Saric, Bayless and a 2022 2nd rounder. Ainge could have easily beaten both of those packages if he wanted.

Kawhi he screwed up like you said.

He had the ammo to climb into the next tier and take his a shot at a championship and instead stood pat and overvalued his own assets. He's a good GM but Celtics fans and some of the media were propping him up to be a genius and so much smarter than everybody for the past few years so I think that's why he's catching so much heat now.

Good post. People love assets but you have to put them in play at some point. I am sure Ainge felt great that he would get AD with a big trade at the end of the year but I am sure he was taken by surprise with regard to Kyrie's behavior. Kyrie ruined the master plan but risk he had to take. The Kyrie trade looked great up front. I still think with what they have and what they will free up in cap space with Horford gone they will put a solid unit out there next year and you will see them return to looking like they did up until this year under Stevens.

I also think Tatum and Hayward step up next year as well. Hayward was really really good before injury. Really good, just takes a couple years to recover. When the chemistry is that bad is ruins everything

 

[Alsacs]

Kyrie Irving Rumors: ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski suggests Brooklyn may not want him ‘as a solo act’

Adrian Wojnarowski opened the door to Brooklyn not feeling comfortable with only ending up with Kyrie Irving as their free agency score.

www.masslive.com

Kyrie is going to end up on the Lakers.
If he doesn’t end up on Brooklyn and he tanked the Celtics chances go after Davis for real he has nowhere else.

 

[Newhouser]

what player do teams appear to want less - Kyrie or CP3?

 

[Alsacs]

 

[Melancer46]

 

[chugg21]

Love that deal for Utah. Guess that takes away Russells #1 suitor.

 

[Melancer46]

Love that deal for Utah. Guess that takes away Russells #1 suitor.

Yep, great move for them in a wide open NBA.

 

[Alsacs]

Memphis could be sneaky good next year.
Good role players for them.

If a team doesn’t give the Grizzlies something Korver or Crowder will end up on the Lakers.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Good trade for both teams. Memphis much more in a rebuild mode.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Utah is a team I will root for next year.

 

[chugg21]

Looks like 2 1sts going to Memphis as well.

 

[chugg21]

Memphis could be sneaky good next year.
Good role players for them.

If a team doesn’t give the Grizzlies something Korver or Crowder will end up on the Lakers.

Sneaky good as in winning 25 games? I don't know if there are 3 worse rosters in the league.

 

[chugg21]

Utah is a team I will root for next year.

Me too. Got a shot to be a top 3 team in the West if they don't start out terribly like they have the last couple years.