NBA 2018-2019 | Page 56 | Syracusefan.com

NBA 2018-2019

Greatest foreign born player to not play in college. Dirk changed the game more than most... original stretch four, trailblazer for the foreign player to think "I can be the man". Should have had two rings. He wasn't better than Akeem but his importantance to the game is rivaled by few.
 
Newhouser said:
Greatest foreign born player to not play in college. Dirk changed the game more than most... original stretch four, trailblazer for the foreign player to think "I can be the man". Should have had two rings. He wasn't better than Akeem but his importantance to the game is rivaled by few.
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I'll buy this. Would've love to see what Sabonis could've done if he came here as a 20 year old. Guy averaged 18-11 per 36 with a 57% true shooting; great passer, even after his body was thrashed.

It's a pretty crazy what-if really, he was taken in the 86 draft. The Blazers really broke through in 1990, making the finals, but they were pretty solid in 87 and 88 (49 and 53 wins) before that. If you put Sabonis on those teams, do they challenge the Lakers? It's hard to totally reverse engineer exactly what their team would've looked like, (and they did lose in the first round both of those years) but I don't think it's crazy at all to project Sabonis as an all star center in that era. For instance, you look at the 88 all star game, the starting center for the West was Hakeem; ok, Sabonis is real good, he's probably not Hakeem. The other 2 bigs were Kareem (he's Kareem, but he's also ancient) and James Donaldson. Sabonis is probably pretty easily the second best big man in the West, right? I think the Blazers could've made some noise a year or two earlier than they did if they had Sabonis.
 
Knicks411 said:
I'll buy this. Would've love to see what Sabonis could've done if he came here as a 20 year old. Guy averaged 18-11 per 36 with a 57% true shooting; great passer, even after his body was thrashed.

It's a pretty crazy what-if really, he was taken in the 86 draft. The Blazers really broke through in 1990, making the finals, but they were pretty solid in 87 and 88 (49 and 53 wins) before that. If you put Sabonis on those teams, do they challenge the Lakers? It's hard to totally reverse engineer exactly what their team would've looked like, (and they did lose in the first round both of those years) but I don't think it's crazy at all to project Sabonis as an all star center in that era. For instance, you look at the 88 all star game, the starting center for the West was Hakeem; ok, Sabonis is real good, he's probably not Hakeem. The other 2 bigs were Kareem (he's Kareem, but he's also ancient) and James Donaldson. Sabonis is probably pretty easily the second best big man in the West, right? I think the Blazers could've made some noise a year or two earlier than they did if they had Sabonis.
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They did have Kevin Duckworth though who, while not Sabonis, made the AS game in 89 and 91. So it’s not like they would’ve been upgrading from a scrub to Sabonis.

Gotta think they win a championship with prime Sabonis at some point in that era though.
 
OrangeDW said:
They did have Kevin Duckworth though who, while not Sabonis, made the AS game in 89 and 91. So it’s not like they would’ve been upgrading from a scrub to Sabonis.

Gotta think they win a championship with prime Sabonis at some point in that era though.
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So I was about 6 or 7 in that period, and I definitely don't have great memories of that period as it happened, but I have read a ton of stuff, and anyway, long story short, I never would have guessed in a million years Kevin Duckworth made 2 AS games in that period. My impression of him was good but not great player at all.
I had to look it up. in 89 the West had 4 (!) all star Centers; Hakeem, Kareem, Duckworth, and Mark Eaton (!!!!)

Meanwhile the East had Ewing, Moses Malone, Brad Daugherty, plus guys who could've passed for C in Larry Nance and Kevin McHale. The fact that makes this even crazier is the 89 Blazers weren't any good! They went 39-43, yet they had 2 all stars.

in 91 the Blazers were great (63-19) so you could see them getting the benefit of the doubt for an extra guy.The West that year had David Robinson, Duckworth, and maybe Tom Chambers, but I don't think in that era anyone considered him a 5. Hakeem averaged 21-14-4 that year, but it looks like he didn't play due to injury.

So my main takeaway? Kevin Duckworth made 2 all star games!! It's weird, I always think of the era of right before I started following basketball and when I did start following it as a golden era for centers, but it seems like that era didn't really start until later than I thought, maybe the early 90s, when you had Ewing, Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, and Mourning all going at it.
 
Knicks411 said:
So I was about 6 or 7 in that period, and I definitely don't have great memories of that period as it happened, but I have read a ton of stuff, and anyway, long story short, I never would have guessed in a million years Kevin Duckworth made 2 AS games in that period. My impression of him was good but not great player at all.
I had to look it up. in 89 the West had 4 (!) all star Centers; Hakeem, Kareem, Duckworth, and Mark Eaton (!!!!)

Meanwhile the East had Ewing, Moses Malone, Brad Daugherty, plus guys who could've passed for C in Larry Nance and Kevin McHale. The fact that makes this even crazier is the 89 Blazers weren't any good! They went 39-43, yet they had 2 all stars.

in 91 the Blazers were great (63-19) so you could see them getting the benefit of the doubt for an extra guy.The West that year had David Robinson, Duckworth, and maybe Tom Chambers, but I don't think in that era anyone considered him a 5. Hakeem averaged 21-14-4 that year, but it looks like he didn't play due to injury.

So my main takeaway? Kevin Duckworth made 2 all star games!! It's weird, I always think of the era of right before I started following basketball and when I did start following it as a golden era for centers, but it seems like that era didn't really start until later than I thought, maybe the early 90s, when you had Ewing, Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, and Mourning all going at it.
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I was young too. I was watching and reading box scores and collecting cards, and reading the sports magazines and all that. But obviously I was watching through little kid eyes. But I recall him being big and strong and surprisingly agile for his size, though later in his career getting really heavy and his prime not lasting real long.

Basically like an Eddie Curry?
 
OrangeDW said:
I was young too. I was watching and reading box scores and collecting cards, and reading the sports magazines and all that. But obviously I was watching through little kid eyes. But I recall him being big and strong and surprisingly agile for his size, though later in his career getting really heavy and his prime not lasting real long.

Basically like an Eddie Curry?
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Made me sad by reminding me of Eddy Curry. That's probably a pretty good call though, right down to both of them being done by a pretty young age (32 for Duckworth, Curry was 30.)

Eddy Curry just turned 36. Wow.
 
Knicks411 said:
Made me sad by reminding me of Eddy Curry. That's probably a pretty good call though, right down to both of them being done by a pretty young age (32 for Duckworth, Curry was 30.)

Eddy Curry just turned 36. Wow.
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Yeah, it seems the numbers were similar too. Good scoring but the rebounding wasn’t great. Of course Portland had Buck Williams eating up a lot of boards.

I recall Duckworth being a well liked player too. I remember catching him on my uncles satellite dish(lol) at the end of his career and being blown away at how fat he had gotten. Had to be one of his last games. He passed real young too from heart issues I believe? Hopefully Curry is leading a healthy life. Those large bodies that struggle with weight often have a tough time.
 
Alsacs said:
Can you imagine being a Trailblazers fan from 1984 watching Jordan on the Olympic Team after passing on him in the draft.
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Would be like any team that passes on Zion this year (though I dont think that's going to happen)

I don't like to compliment Bill Simmons a lot, but I think he had a good take on the 84 draft in his book, he basically said something like even now, hard to kill Houston for taking Hakeem over MJ. A 7 footer that skilled and good, can't hate the pick. Even though Jordan became Jordan. Bowie on the other hand...

So here's a dumb stat. I was looking at the Blazers, in the 1990-92 period they won over 57 games every year, made the finals twice, but never won a title. So I was curious, how many teams have won 55 games over a 3 season stretch without winning a ring. Play index made this harder than I thought, here's what I have, if anyone cares

1) Milwaukee Bucks-They won 182 games from 72-74. This is kind of a cheat though, because they won 66 games (and a title) in the 71 season.
2) Philly- Won 179 games from 80-82, but again, something of a cheat because they won the title the next year, in 83
3) Blazers, as discussed
4) Knicks won 172 games from 93-95. Not really a cheat, but worth pointing out the Blazers won 57 games or more over the 3 years, I set the search to 55, if you make it 57, the Knicks drop out since they won 55 in in 95
5) Thunder- There are a few ways to look at this. Purely by win totals, they don't qualify, due to the lockout in 2012 where they won at a 58 game pace. Give them credit for that, they had a 4 year run where they won 232 games (2011-14). Otherwise, not on this list.
6) Suns won 177 games from 93-95; much like the Knicks, they fall off if you move it up from 55 to 57.
7) Kings had a 4 year stretch (2001-04) where they won 230 games, but would fall off if 57 was the threshold because they won 55 in the first and last year of the stretch
8) Spurs- From 94-96, they won 176 games, but again, had a pesky 55 win season, then from 15-17, won 183 games (again, with a 55 win season in there)
9) Sonics from 93-98 had a 6 year stretch where they won 357 games. It did start with a 55 win season, but even taking that out, you have a 5 year stretch with 301 wins. Crazy, in that 4 year stretch they made the finals once, lost in the first round twice, and lost in the second round twice
10) Finally, Utah. They are kind of like the Thunder; the lockout season in 99 makes this a little tricky. Not looking at it, they had a 4 year stretch with 241 wins from 95-98, however, 96 was a 55 win season, so if you want to be annoying, you can throw that out. However, in 99, they won at a 60 win pace, so you could argue they had a 5 year stretch with 301 wins, including 3 in a row with 60.

Those Sonics teams, that's crazy to me. 6 years of 55 wins or more and one finals appearance to show for it. (the 55 win season that started it, they did make the conf finals at least) But 6 seasons, they won 357 games, and they won 6 total playoff series in those seasons
 
Alsacs said:
Can you imagine being a Trailblazers fan from 1984 watching Jordan on the Olympic Team after passing on him in the draft.
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It's co contextual. They had a future HOF 2G in Drexler. Adding a center to that team made more sense than redundancy at the other position.
When Bowie was healthy, he was really, really good.
 
Newhouser said:
Greatest foreign born player to not play in college. Dirk changed the game more than most... original stretch four, trailblazer for the foreign player to think "I can be the man". Should have had two rings. He wasn't better than Akeem but his importantance to the game is rivaled by few.
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Was not to disparage Dirk at all. GREAT player. Also reminds us about what a great basketball talent assessor Don Nelson was. Robert Traylor for Dirk on drat day, if I remember correctly.

Fox sports list. I consider Duncan US born, as it is a US territory.

Redirect Notice
 
Capt. Tuttle said:
It's co contextual. They had a future HOF 2G in Drexler. Adding a center to that team made more sense than redundancy at the other position.
When Bowie was healthy, he was really, really good.
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Bowie’s college stats weren’t as good as the Blazers C at the time Mychal Thompson.
The myth the Blazers needed a C isn’t true as Thompson averaged 18 PPG that year.
The Blazers should have taken the best player available and according to Hakeem Olajuwon’s autobiography the Blazers offered Clyde Drexler and the No. 2 overall pick in the 1984 draft to the Rockets for Ralph Sampson.
The Rockets declined.
The Blazers though didn’t need a C as Thompson was good.
 
Melancer46 said:
Is Duncan technically foreign born? I remember he wasn’t from the continental US at least
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US Virgin Islands. He's played for team USA before, so I think he should count as American.

Alsacs said:
Bowie’s college stats weren’t as good as the Blazers C at the time Mychal Thompson.
The myth the Blazers needed a C isn’t true as Thompson averaged 18 PPG that year.
The Blazers should have taken the best player available and according to Hakeem Olajuwon’s autobiography the Blazers offered Clyde Drexler and the No. 2 overall pick in the 1984 draft to the Rockets for Ralph Sampson.
The Rockets declined.
The Blazers though didn’t need a C as Thompson was good.
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I think I read this in the Simmons book as well. Can you imagine if the Rockets did this trade and ended up with Hakeem/Clyde/Jordan? My god.
 
Alsacs said:
Bowie’s college stats weren’t as good as the Blazers C at the time Mychal Thompson.
The myth the Blazers needed a C isn’t true as Thompson averaged 18 PPG that year.
The Blazers should have taken the best player available and according to Hakeem Olajuwon’s autobiography the Blazers offered Clyde Drexler and the No. 2 overall pick in the 1984 draft to the Rockets for Ralph Sampson.
The Rockets declined.
The Blazers though didn’t need a C as Thompson was good.
Expand...
Different NBA. At that time 7"1' (Bowie) was was valued more than 6'10" (Thompson).
The Nets really screwed up when they trades away Bowie.
 

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