NBA Draft Tonight

[Jasoncuse]

Stephen A Smith actually convinced me to hate the Porzingis pick again.

Melo is 31 and Phil took over this team saying we could be a playoff team/contender soon. How the does taking Porzingis accomplish this?

SAS and Melo are tight, if Melo liked the move trust that SAs wouldn't be going scorched earth on Phil last night and this morning.

He doesn't argue the talent and potential of Porzingis but what are we selling FA's in the summer? If we strike out this summer, what are we selling FA's in 16? Particularly Durant who Melo has been actively recruiting. We have a 3 year window with Melo and cap space to contend before we start over again and meanwhile Phil has traded away the entire team for nothing and drafted a guy who might be good in a few years.

Phil better hope his clownshow triangle works this year and he gets some good free agents or Knicks fans will run him out of town.

Thing is, other than Cauley-Stein or Winslow, I guess, who exactly is going to help the Knicks at #4 THIS YEAR? Mudiay is basically as raw, Hezonja - who knows?

If Porzingis can get some time this year and step into a larger role the next year, while continuing to improve, it's a win for the Knicks. He probably had the highest ceiling there.

The Knicks weren't going to add a stud immediate contributor unless Russell/Okafor fell to them. The whole key to contending soon is free agency and the Knicks are set up pretty well to get help there. Their biggest problems are Carmelo and his contract, and winning the last 2 games of this past year to push them out of the top 3 in the lottery. Two monster long-lasting effects that were avoidable...

 

[bpo57]

The Rak commentary is absurdly positive. Every NBA beat writer/analyst is slobbering over the pick.

Agreed with pretty much everyone that he easily could've been picked in the 20's.

Those beat writers/analysts were probably the same guys predicting he would go in the 20s.

 

[reedny]

The point is that there have been numerous SU guys that were drafted in the past decade higher than Rak who had little to no NBA career. It's a lot harder to have a meaningful NBA career than people think. Just three months ago consensus on this board was Rak was a mid to late 1st round draft pick. I bet if you went over the NBA draft from five years ago that more than half of the guys taken in the 2nd round aren't even in the league.

Well, it's a brutal league ... survival of the fittest among the best players in the world. You can point out guys (from SU) who didn't make it (Dante' Greene). Some don't, and obviously the odds aren't as good with late first or early second round pics. But Bilas was high on Jeremy Grant, who was also taken in the early second round. And he's turning out to be a capable NBA player. And there were people saying Draymond Green was too small, that he was a "tweener" (too small for the 4, not a good enough shooter for the 3), and he turned out to be a versatile defender.

It's about "fit" in the NBA, and I like Rak's chances in Cleveland. He doesn't have the size to start in the post. But as a rotation guy, especially in small ball, he can defend the 4 or 5, rebound and protect the rim on defense. And on offense, he has a developing mid-range game and a reliable low-post game. He'll have to make the team and show what he can do. But the Cav's worked him out right before the draft and I think they got a steal taking him early-second.

 

[Alsacs]

For any Celtics fans here, what do you think of them drafting 3 guards? They already had an ample supply. How many can you have, unless Ainge has something up his sleeve? I thought for sure he would trade up, but guess other teams wanted too much. They could have certainly used a big though. Surprised, but glad they drafted Terry Rozier being a local player - hope he sticks.

I am a Celtics fan and I am pissed at Ainge. Every year he talks a big game and does nothing. He would have been smarter to then say he was trying to move up and do nothing.

I know your Louisville guy but I think the worst 1st round pick BY FAR was Rozier at 16. He can't shoot, he is small, and he can't pass well enough to play PG. He is a good defender, but the C's didn't need that at guard.
Rozier will be behind Isaiah Thomas, Avery Bradley, Marcus Smart, and Evan Turner. Then C's go and take R Hunter and the guard from W&M. Ainge failed this draft. Martin isn't enough rim protection. Bobby Portis or Sam Decker would have been the picks that made sense. Rozier will be lucky if gets to Bradley's level but he will likely be Marcus Banks 2.0 and hopefully be traded soon.

 

[reedny]

Those beat writers/analysts were probably the same guys predicting he would go in the 20s.

He's a better player than Rozier. And I think he's better than Larry Nance, Jr. (who's a wannabe 3 who can't defend the 4). I think you need to trust the Cavs, rather than your own instincts here.

 

[OttoMets]

Guess I'm the only one here who doesn't love Winslow. Every time I looked he was driving straight into a defender.

Winslow is Paul Harris with better timing.

 

[Melancer46]

Thing is, other than Cauley-Stein or Winslow, I guess, who exactly is going to help the Knicks at #4 THIS YEAR? Mudiay is basically as raw, Hezonja - who knows?

If Porzingis can get some time this year and step into a larger role the next year, while continuing to improve, it's a win for the Knicks. He probably had the highest ceiling there.

The Knicks weren't going to add a stud immediate contributor unless Russell/Okafor fell to them. The whole key to contending soon is free agency and the Knicks are set up pretty well to get help there. Their biggest problems are Carmelo and his contract, and winning the last 2 games of this past year to push them out of the top 3 in the lottery. Two monster long-lasting effects that were avoidable...

I think Porzingis is the right choice, but I think Mudiay, after maybe Okafor, is probably the most NBA ready player in the draft.

 

[Melancer46]

I am a Celtics fan and I am pissed at Ainge. Every year he talks a big game and does nothing. He would have been smarter to then say he was trying to move up and do nothing.

I know your Louisville guy but I think the worst 1st round pick BY FAR was Rozier at 16. He can't shoot, he is small, and he can't pass well enough to play PG. He is a good defender, but the C's didn't need that at guard.
Rozier will be behind Isaiah Thomas, Avery Bradley, Marcus Smart, and Evan Turner. Then C's go and take R Hunter and the guard from W&M. Ainge failed this draft. Martin isn't enough rim protection. Bobby Portis or Sam Decker would have been the picks that made sense. Rozier will be lucky if gets to Bradley's level but he will likely be Marcus Banks 2.0 and hopefully be traded soon.

Hunter was a great pick IMO. Rozier was a reach and a half though.

Ainge's problem is he's talked himself into thinking his assets are worth far more than they actually are. Did you see his offer to Philly before? It was just silly. The moment it started getting leaked that Boston was preparing a massive offer for the 3rd pick, I knew it was bullshit because after the original offer, there was no way Ainge was going to suddenly make a big offer.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Winslow is Paul Harris with better timing.

He's a better shooter, slasher, finisher and a good defender, and a couple inches taller. Other than that, he's Paul Harris.

 

[MSOrange]

I am a Celtics fan and I am pissed at Ainge. Every year he talks a big game and does nothing. He would have been smarter to then say he was trying to move up and do nothing.

I know your Louisville guy but I think the worst 1st round pick BY FAR was Rozier at 16. He can't shoot, he is small, and he can't pass well enough to play PG. He is a good defender, but the C's didn't need that at guard.
Rozier will be behind Isaiah Thomas, Avery Bradley, Marcus Smart, and Evan Turner. Then C's go and take R Hunter and the guard from W&M. Ainge failed this draft. Martin isn't enough rim protection. Bobby Portis or Sam Decker would have been the picks that made sense. Rozier will be lucky if gets to Bradley's level but he will likely be Marcus Banks 2.0 and hopefully be traded soon.

As a Celts fan, totally agree. Rozier??? Why wait to get second round talent in the second round if you can get it in the first round. I would have loved Sam Dekker in the first round but Portis would have been solid too. I actually like Hunter. As far as the W & M player, I can't find anyone who says he should have been drafted. I really liked Ainge picking up Thomas in the trade, but he choked big time last night.

 

[OttoMets]

He's a better shooter, slasher, finisher and a good defender, and a couple inches taller. Other than that, he's Paul Harris.

Winslow's a better outside shooter. Other than that, they're exactly the same size with similar games. One played on a good team and struck when the iron was hot. The other didn't have that luck.

 

[longislandcuse]

Phil's been preaching patience the whole time. Even if they reload rather than rebuild, Melo probably is like 35 by the time the Knicks are contenders again. Sacrificing the future to try to win now is what got the Knicks into trouble in the first place.

We just did the whole patience thing! Seriously, how much patience can he expect Knicks fans to have. You remember the Donnie Walsh nonsense, right? Now we have to do that all over again?

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

He's a better shooter, slasher, finisher and a good defender, and a couple inches taller. Other than that, he's Paul Harris.

Harris measured at 6-3 barefoot. Winslow is 6-4 1/2 barefoot. Winslow is much better shooter than Harris was. Much better player.

 

[OttoMets]

Williams is probably the worst analyst at ESPN for any sport and that is saying something. It is so obvious Bilas and Rose have each other's respect and they don't like Williams.

Man, Jalen was giving Williams the stink eye for long stretches. That was uncomfortable.

 

[Melancer46]

We just did the whole patience thing! Seriously, how much patience can he expect Knicks fans to have. You remember the Donnie Walsh nonsense, right? Now we have to do that all over again?

This is what happens when you have to clean up somebody else's trash. Even if Phil tried to put together the best possible team for the next year or two, they wouldn't be contenders. It's better to just build the team up like this.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

That's fine to have hope. But the reality is the odds are heavily stacked against Rak that he will have a lengthy NBA career. There were only 5 of the 30 guys drafted in the 2nd round from the 2010 NBA draft that played even one minute this year in the NBA and most of them were deep bench players. When people throw around comments like "ten year NBA career" they have no idea how much of a longshot that is for most draftees (particularly 2nd rounders).

Manu Ginobli, Paul Millsap, Marc Gasol, Goran Dragic, Carlos Boozer, Isaiah Thomas, Mo Williams, Draymond Green, and Monta Ellis were all drafted in the 2nd round. There are plenty of first round guys that didn't pan out. The scouts don't always get it right. Rak could very well have a 10 year NBA career. Danny Shayes and Jason Hart played longer than that.

 

[br801]

Not sure how much you've seen of this guy but it has been widely stated that he may end up the best player in this draft. It just may take 3 years. Its about time NY started looking down the road. This instant gratification crap had to stop.

Maybe so, but this pick is essentially a big -you to their franchise player. What was the point in signing Carmelo if you're looking to win three or four years down the road? And I won't even comment on Phil's obsession with the triangle. I suppose his rings buy him time, but I'm sensing he's overmatched in his current role.

 

[Alsacs]

Phil Jackson is just stealing Dolan's money. The guy has not been consistent in his plan. Unless he swings a miracle and gets Marc Gasol the Knicks will suck next year. Aldridge is going to San Antonio or Portland, Rondo is going to Sacramento, Love is going to LA or Cleveland. Phil needs Gasol or the NYK are garbage next year. Melo should have gone to Chicago in a sign and trade.

 

[Melancer46]

Maybe so, but this pick is essentially a big -you to their franchise player. What was the point in signing Carmelo if you're looking to win three or four years down the road? And I won't even comment on Phil's obsession with the triangle. I suppose his rings buy him time, but I'm sensing he's overmatched in his current role.

Not really. It was Melo's decision to take the money and stay. He knew the Knicks were rebuilding and hopefully reloading and decided it was worth the risk. And 99% of rookies are net-negative players their first couple years anyways. If Porzingis gives them 20 below average minutes a night the first two years, he's on par with probably anyone else they could have drafted, and he has a much higher chance to be a star.

Phil Jackson is just stealing Dolan's money. The guy has not been consistent in his plan. Unless he swings a miracle and gets Marc Gasol the Knicks will suck next year. Aldridge is going to San Antonio or Portland, Rondo is going to Sacramento, Love is going to LA or Cleveland. Phil needs Gasol or the NYK are garbage next year. Melo should have gone to Chicago in a sign and trade.

I'm not sure Chicago is a much better situation. Would have been Chicago without Mirotic and or Butler plus other pieces most likely. You'd be taking far less money to go to a team that's relying on a guy that hasn't played in like 3 years, and if he isn't right in this hypothetical, that team isn't going anywhere either.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Put together the best roster that you can, than figure out what offense works best with those players, not the other way around. Ive never seen this kid play, but I have seen Winslow play alot, and against very good competition, and they are going to regret passing up on him.

Does that advice apply to the Cuse?

 

[Madbiker]

Phil Jackson is just stealing Dolan's money. The guy has not been consistent in his plan. Unless he swings a miracle and gets Marc Gasol the Knicks will suck next year. Aldridge is going to San Antonio or Portland, Rondo is going to Sacramento, Love is going to LA or Cleveland. Phil needs Gasol or the NYK are garbage next year. Melo should have gone to Chicago in a sign and trade.

Who did you want him to draft last night? I don't love the pick either but nobody that came after is a game changer. The real problem happened when he didn't take Derek Fisher aside BEFORE those last 3 games and let him know how important it was to lose not win those games for the long term betterment of the team. Fisher totally blew up the whole plan by pulling out every stop to win those games. I guess Phil figured Fisher should know that on his own. Then the Knicks would be taking Towns or Okafor last night and everything would be rolling. They aren't going to get a star in free agency because those players want to go to team with a chance to win now, not a rebuilding team. My guess is after another losing season Melo will demand a trade and waive his no trade clause and the NYK will have to eat some of the contract to move him. But frankly Melo brought this on himself. He wanted the extra $50 million (can't blame him) instead of going to the Bulls or Rockets.

 

[longislandcuse]

Not really. It was Melo's decision to take the money and stay. He knew the Knicks were rebuilding and hopefully reloading and decided it was worth the risk. And 99% of rookies are net-negative players their first couple years anyways. If Porzingis gives them 20 below average minutes a night the first two years, he's on par with probably anyone else they could have drafted, and he has a much higher chance to be a star.



I'm not sure Chicago is a much better situation. Would have been Chicago without Mirotic and or Butler plus other pieces most likely. You'd be taking far less money to go to a team that's relying on a guy that hasn't played in like 3 years, and if he isn't right in this hypothetical, that team isn't going anywhere either.

Melo was definitely sold on a vision from Phil and Fish and that vision wasn't play for a garbage team to finish out your career.

 

[DoctorBombay]

That's fine to have hope. But the reality is the odds are heavily stacked against Rak that he will have a lengthy NBA career. There were only 5 of the 30 guys drafted in the 2nd round from the 2010 NBA draft that played even one minute this year in the NBA and most of them were deep bench players. When people throw around comments like "ten year NBA career" they have no idea how much of a longshot that is for most draftees (particularly 2nd rounders).

Yeah...why even bother??? :blah:

 

[longislandcuse]

Who did you want him to draft last night? I don't love the pick either but nobody that came after is a game changer. The real problem happened when he didn't take Derek Fisher aside BEFORE those last 3 games and let him know how important it was to lose not win those games for the long term betterment of the team. Fisher totally blew up the whole plan by pulling out every stop to win those games. I guess Phil figured Fisher should know that on his own. Then the Knicks would be taking Towns or Okafor last night and everything would be rolling. They aren't going to get a star in free agency because those players want to go to team with a chance to win now, not a rebuilding team. My guess is after another losing season Melo will demand a trade and waive his no trade clause and the NYK will have to eat some of the contract to move him. But frankly Melo brought this on himself. He wanted the extra $50 million (can't blame him) instead of going to the Bulls or Rockets.

Yup, looks like our core is Grant-Galloway-Porzingis-Melo-Monroe.. That will sure lure the Free Agents in '16...

Porzingis better get run this year and prove he can do something because if Mudiay or Winslow play well this year, it's gonna get ugly.

 

[Alsacs]

Who wins more games in 2015-2016 the Knicks or Nets?